2 weeks boating in my electric boat

[PD1964]

6 hours ago, peterboat said:

I think you and a few others have got it, the reality is up here we have had a miserable two weeks, yesterday was sunny all day a first for a long time. If I was a continues cruiser I would have no issues complying with the law and moving every few days, distance wise in 14 days it would be 20-30 miles with ease, In winter it wouldnt be an issue either as we get sunny days then more than enough to move every 5 days a few miles on. This suits many people but not Timm who seems to be on his mooring a lot at the moment!!? so for him it might be toooooo far⛔

Glad everything worked, I don’t think people realise how better the big canals are and you don’t need to move miles to get away, as you say you saw no boats, Just been up the Leeds Liv, couldn’t wait to get back, full moorings, speeding boats, continuous moorers , clueless new boaters with 100k+ boats living the dream, busy Towpaths full of speeding cyclists. Now back, no boats, wide canals, ample moorings and total solitude. You don’t need to move miles if you know where to move to. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by PD1964

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Problem is you need a lot of space for ground source heating. I ran a project to put some in for an office building near London. Due to lack of available land, they dug a deep hole and put the glycol pipes in vertically rather than horizontally, and backfilled.

 

Made me wonder what would happen if everyone did it, would it lower the ground temperature?

Theirs is air source heating but the post office across the road is ground source and same as you its 50 foot straight down it works well, Wallers have ground source but that is a farm and theirs is 4 foot down over an acre field again works well along with the solar that pays for the lecce to run it.

I have always thought water source heating would be good on boats, after all if the take off are near the baseplate not much chance of freezing that deep in the winter? plus it would draw water and put it back on different sides of the boat

20 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Glad everything worked, I don’t think people realise how better the big canals are and you don’t need to move miles to get away, as you say you saw no boats, Just been up the Leeds Liv, couldn’t wait to get back, full moorings, speeding boats, continuous moorers , clueless new boaters with 100k+ boats living the dream, busy Towpaths full of speeding cyclists. Now back, no boats, wide canals, ample moorings and total solitude. You don’t need to move miles if you know where to move to. 

Its not for me all this rushing around I cant wait for Jayne to give up work so we can CC for a few years or so

[mrsmelly]

7 hours ago, peterboat said:

I think you and a few others have got it, the reality is up here we have had a miserable two weeks, yesterday was sunny all day a first for a long time. If I was a continues cruiser I would have no issues complying with the law and moving every few days, distance wise in 14 days it would be 20-30 miles with ease, In winter it wouldnt be an issue either as we get sunny days then more than enough to move every 5 days a few miles on. This suits many people but not Timm who seems to be on his mooring a lot at the moment!!? so for him it might be toooooo far⛔

Yow dood. I have a mooring at present so use it, its bloody stupid to pay for a mooring when off boating isnt it. If I were at present a continuous cruiser then an all electric boat simply wouldnt cope as I dont consider 20 miles and moving once every two weeks as continuous cruising, I actualy cruise when in ccing mode 

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yow dood. I have a mooring at present so use it, its bloody stupid to pay for a mooring when off boating isnt it. If I were at present a continuous cruiser then an all electric boat simply wouldnt cope as I dont consider 20 miles and moving once every two weeks as continuous cruising, I actualy cruise when in ccing mode 

So do I Tim but for me 2-3 hours is enough, I get bored, I want to see and walk with the dog so I have no issues, however in a few years when you are all bowhauling your boats bet you dont feel the same way about doing 20 miles daily?

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

So do I Tim but for me 2-3 hours is enough, I get bored, I want to see and walk with the dog so I have no issues, however in a few years when you are all bowhauling your boats bet you dont feel the same way about doing 20 miles daily?

You and I will be dead long before that happens. A few tree huggers arent going to change the world very quickly.

[Johny London]

4 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Houses will use electric boilers with their existing wet central heating systems. However the houses will need a lot more insulation to get the rating of the boiler within the existing capacity of the cabling from the local transformer to the house.

 

40 years ago I saw some houses in Sweden, which were heated by a 2 kW blown air heater. However the were pretty much air tight and brought the air from outside into the house via a pipe buried deeper than the frost level, so the incoming air was always at about 10°C, summer or winter.

I disagree - we already have a full gas infastructure which could be used for hydrogen.

[peterboat]

5 minutes ago, Johny London said:

I disagree - we already have a full gas infastructure which could be used for hydrogen.

Johny you have to read up what hydrogen does to metal before suggesting that! You would create a huge ticking time bomb below our feet

[Johny London]

ok then drill through to Australia and suck their warm air up - they've got too much of it anyway.

[Mike Todd]

There seems to be some misconception about 'electric' as an energy source. Essentially the term is being used about a method for delivering energy, not its source. That energy comes from various possibilities, including coal, gas, oil, solar, wind, nuclear etc. For the most part that electricity (or most of it) is delivered, via conductors, direct to the point of consumption. Whilst that consumption is largely clean, in the specific sense being used about energy usage, the energy itself may have varying degrees of cleanliness depending on how the electricity is generated. Sometimes it may just appear to be cleaner because the uncleaness  is hidden away out of sight. 

 

In the case of applications where the electricity cannot be conducted to the consumer then it is necessary to insert some means of storing or converting that energy so that it can be used where wanted. In a few cases, and I am currently not far from one kind of example, pumped storage converts off peak electricity into potential physical energy for use later at peak times. Still needs a delivery mechanism though.

 

Hence we come to batteries, although there are ideas under consideration that use other mechanisms by converting substances to easier firms for delivery. However, the environmental equation then has to include the process by which the batteries are produced. There is a tendency to ignore their cleanliness or otherwise and also to forget that they too are a consumable item, albeit somewhat slower.

 

As our economy stands at the moment we are gradually exchanging the mobility of labour for increased mobility of goods (and, in a sense via internet, services. Don't forget that tgevinternet and smartphones use some pretty obnoxious materials). This will shift interest even more towards how to meet environmental challenges in delivery methods, typically ships and trucks. As yet, neither is close to competing on cost or convenience with carbon energy but there is plenty of work looking at options. One driver for change may well be cost, if the overall price at the pump rises by orders of magnitude. However, it us very unlikely that we will predict accurately how the economy and society will react. The as yet uninvented will arrive, perhaps qiicker that expected.

 

A century ago there was a transport environmental crisis.  Too many horses on city streets leading to mountains of unhygienic waste. No one had a direct solution but the invention if the ICE meant that the demand for horse transport all but disappeared., almost overnight

 

Taking the system as a whole, electric propulsion is not inherently more environmentally cleaner, it may be overall it depends on the source of the energy which is transported by electricity. It may also not be what ultimately displaces carbon sources although my guess is that we will move to something else that in the short term looks better, economically, but eventually will suffer the same fate as horses.

 

Overall, one of the defects of human systems is the tendency to sub, or local, optimise personal decisions rather that look at the bigger,  societal, context.

[Johny London]

I really don't think there is any misconception about electricity production - certainly not by boaters at any rate. Anyone who winters on the cut will be only too aware how much goes into its generation. At least removing the ICE's from the "front line" enables people to have cleaner more peaceful environments, it's a start. Then the problem is one step further removed - still to be tackled but at least perhaps in a more cohesive "centralised" sort of way. (And this is surely, precisely what governments should be here for?).

I think electricity is the perfect medium for small vehicles, even boats and maybe in time the larger stuff such as lorries and tankers. Motors are simple and seem well suited to these tasks. I don't see electric for heating. 1kwh wouldn't blow your hat off.

[Richard10002]

34 minutes ago, Johny London said:

At least removing the ICE's from the "front line" enables people to have cleaner more peaceful environments, it's a start. Then the problem is one step further removed - still to be tackled but at least perhaps in a more cohesive "centralised" sort of way. (And this is surely, precisely what governments should be here for?)

and good luck with that!  

 

I tend to agree that it would be nicer to be on streets without the fumes from vehicles. However, as you say, all it does is move the problem elsewhere and the biggest issue remains.... all of the gases still go up into the atmosphere where the climate change goes on.

 

In fact, it is entirely possible that if our streets have only electric vehicles and no fumes, people may think the problem of climate change has been solved/improved, when it still goes on.

 

 

[Flyboy]

On 13/08/2019 at 10:54, Johny London said:

 I'm a massive fan of electric for propulsion, but it is not suitable for heating.

Not so according to Peterboat in previous post. He is generating so much electricity he has surplus enough to feed back into the grid.

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/102157-consultation-on-exhaust-emissions-on-inland-waterways/page/19/

Post 460

Edited August 14, 2019 by Flyboy

[tree monkey]

21 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Problem is you need a lot of space for ground source heating. I ran a project to put some in for an office building near London. Due to lack of available land, they dug a deep hole and put the glycol pipes in vertically rather than horizontally, and backfilled.

 

Made me wonder what would happen if everyone did it, would it lower the ground temperature?

I watched in passing a house being renovated and saw over the weeks their ground source heating being installed.

 

Passing again on a cold frosty morning, although the frost had burnt off most of the grass what remained clearly outlined was the pattern of the installed pipe work for the system.

 

So probably

[Onionman]

On 12/08/2019 at 20:31, mrsmelly said:

I would be lovely if it did and thousands of boats would now have it fitted..................But they dont............cos it doesnt work.....................thirty or forty years from now maybe a different picture??

I'd be extremely surprised if it takes anything like that long. The cash, effort and political will being ploughed into energy storage is immense and I suspect it'll pay off in a far shorter time.

[MtB]

55 minutes ago, Onionman said:

I'd be extremely surprised if it takes anything like that long. The cash, effort and political will being ploughed into energy storage is immense and I suspect it'll pay off in a far shorter time.

 

There is however, no cash, effort or political will being ploughed into fitting charging points all around the canal system.

 

I suspect it will NEVER happen on the UK canals. 

 

[peterboat]

On 14/08/2019 at 12:30, Flyboy said:

Not so according to Peterboat in previous post. He is generating so much electricity he has surplus enough to feed back into the grid.

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/102157-consultation-on-exhaust-emissions-on-inland-waterways/page/19/

Post 460

I will only have 4.5 KW I just cant get those last panels on which is a great shame

[cuthound]

32 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There is however, no cash, effort or political will being ploughed into fitting charging points all around the canal system.

 

I suspect it will NEVER happen on the UK canals. 

 

 

And no where nearly enough being spent on installing charging points for road going EV's.

[Onionman]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

There is however, no cash, effort or political will being ploughed into fitting charging points all around the canal system.

 

I suspect it will NEVER happen on the UK canals. 

 

 

It would be utter madness to fit charging points around the canal system until technology exists that can utilise it.  And it's possibly not going even going to be necessary.

 

Given the right energy storage solution I see it being run privately in the same way diesel is sold at present. If you can stop once a week for diesel you can stop once a week for energy in another form.

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

And no where nearly enough being spent on installing charging points for road going EV's.

 

When cars that needed unleaded fuel were coming in, people said exactly the same about unleaded fuelling stations. They'll come. There are already more than you might expect. Get up Google maps and look for ev charging stations:

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Onionman

[Lily Rose]

27 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

It would be utter madness to fit charging points around the canal system until technology exists that can utilise it.  And it's possibly not going even going to be necessary.

 

Given the right energy storage solution I see it being run privately in the same way diesel is sold at present. If you can stop once a week for diesel you can stop once a week for energy in another form.

 

When cars that needed unleaded fuel were coming in, people said exactly the same about unleaded fuelling stations. They'll come. There are already more than you might expect. Get up Google maps and look for ev charging stations:

 

 

Charging point statistics (for EVs) here:   https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

 

I think I read, about a month or two ago, that the number of charging locations has now overtaken the number of petrol stations. The former is growing every month, the latter is (I believe) declining.

 

 

 

 

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Charging point statistics (for EVs) here:   https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

 

I think I read, about a month or two ago, that the number of charging locations has now overtaken the number of petrol stations. The former is growing every month, the latter is (I believe) declining.

 

 

 

 

How many new power stations are being built to supply all these charging locations?

[cuthound]

9 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Charging point statistics (for EVs) here:   https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

 

I think I read, about a month or two ago, that the number of charging locations has now overtaken the number of petrol stations. The former is growing every month, the latter is (I believe) declining.

 

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Onionman said:

 

It would be utter madness to fit charging points around the canal system until technology exists that can utilise it.  And it's possibly not going even going to be necessary.

 

Given the right energy storage solution I see it being run privately in the same way diesel is sold at present. If you can stop once a week for diesel you can stop once a week for energy in another form.

 

When cars that needed unleaded fuel were coming in, people said exactly the same about unleaded fuelling stations. They'll come. There are already more than you might expect. Get up Google maps and look for ev charging stations:

 

 

The difference being I fill my boat with diesel 2 or 3 times a year. I fill my car with diesel once a month, but batteries will not have the storage capacity, so electric cars and boats need recharging more frequently. 

 

Charging also at present takes much longer thsn refuelling.

 

The number of charging points needs to reflect the above.

Edited August 16, 2019 by cuthound
Clarification

[frangar]

9 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Charging point statistics (for EVs) here:   https://www.zap-map.com/statistics/

 

I think I read, about a month or two ago, that the number of charging locations has now overtaken the number of petrol stations. The former is growing every month, the latter is (I believe) declining.

 

 

 

 

But a charging point in this case caters for one vehicle..a fuel station has many pumps...and can service a lot more cars per hour than a charging point....but that matter seems to have escaped some. 

[Lily Rose]

14 minutes ago, frangar said:

But a charging point in this case caters for one vehicle..a fuel station has many pumps...and can service a lot more cars per hour than a charging point....but that matter seems to have escaped some. 

It was the number of locations that has now surpassed that of petrol stations, not the number of devices or connections. I suspect the number of connectors is still well below the number of fuel pumps but it's catching up fast. 

 

There are also locations not included in Zap Map's figures. For example there is one at my marina.

 

A lot of EV users will very rarely need to use public charge points as they will charge at home overnight at a time of (currently) low demand. And yes, I do know that millions won't be able to do this but there are millions who can so it won't be everyone using the public network, unlike filling stations.

 

An EV would suit me perfectly but I doubt I'll get one for the foreseeable future, if ever, as they are still too expensive and demand currently far exceeds supply for the best ones.

 

 

[Fender151]

In one of the areas we work in it is a mandatory requirement of planning approval  to provide external electrical charging points for vehicles on all house type dwellings, the requirement has not been extended to flats and apartment buildings, as yet, will be an interesting challenge if/when it does!

We have been looking into modular build construction, which have many advantages from a commercial and environmental perspective,  one prototype design we have seen which uses some advanced energy conservation and generation techniques has a projected energy cost of less than £300 per annum, across all heating and consumer units and you can still watch TV, without the need of a power generating exercise bike/ rowing machine.

 

The revolution is coming friends but the scale of uptake will need to be massive to make a significant difference, to the global climate issues. etc, the build costs are getting close to that of trad builds on small scale projects and on large scale project, can better them.

Unfortunately, you still have to cut the trees down to clear the sites to build the houses on, respecting TPO's of course!!

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

 

The difference being I fill my boat with diesel 2 or 3 times a year. I fill my car with diesel once a month, but batteries will not have the storage capacity, so electric cars and boats need recharging more frequently. 

 

Charging also at present takes much longer than refuelling.

 

The number of charging points needs to reflect the above.