Springer 45ft Cruiser1977

[Ksta6]

Hi Canal World Boaters, 

 

My name is Katie and I am just about to buy my first boat. 

 

I haven't got much experience within the boat world and I am really looking for some advice about a boat I am seriously contemplating to buy. 

 

I was wondering if people could vet this boat that I am looking to buy and to flag anything that may scream out at you as a reason to avoid. 

 

The boat is a Springer 45ft Cruiser. Below is the description from the ad:

 

45 ft Curser sturn. New survey July 2019 Blacked July 2019.
Great boat one of the best Springer's with a super layout. 
Very good condition, my dad has owned it for about 10years. We have just done all the work to get a good survey and boat safety cert.
For the full details please see photos survey can be supplied. I still have a few little jobs to do but it very tidy and all works as it should. It's ready to put your stamp on it.
Head hight 5ft 11in

 

 

Specifications

Builder:	Springer
Make:	Springer
Model:	45 Cruiser Stern
Year constructed:	1977
Berths:	4
No. of engines:	1
Engine model:	Perkings
Length over all:	13.70m

Engine(s)

2 cylinder Lister ST2 17.5hp. Very reliable, air cooled

 

Construction

Steel 5mm bottom and 4mm top.

 

Accommodation

Bedroom in the bow, Lounge converts to a double

Equipment

Electrolux 3 way fridge,
Gas hot water,
Porto potie
Stereo
12v lesure battery
12v Engine battery
240v shore power system
Jasbasco water pump new
Bildge pump new

 

 

Safety Equipment

Full safety equipment as required for a Boat Safety Cert
CO Alarm x 2
Fire extinguisher x3
Fire Blanket 
Cut of valves for all fules.

 

The interior is very dated and needs bringing into the 21st century but I see it as a project boat. I would like to think it is structurally and mechanically pretty sound but with no prior boating experience, I am reaching out for advice. 

 

Please also see pictures attached. Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. 

 

TIA, 

 

Katie

 

 

 

[Tumshie]

20 minutes ago, Ksta6 said:

My name is Katie and I am just about to buy my first boat. 

Hey Katie and welcome to the forum and hopefully the wonderful world of boating too ?  

 

This bit is probbly worth ignoring....

Just as an after though the advert lists the engine model as Perkins and then the engine its self as a Lister but is Perkins not Gardner??? (It does say lister in the paper work photographed)

 

26 minutes ago, Ksta6 said:

No. of engines:	1
Engine model:	Perkings
Length over all:	13.70m

Engine(s)

2 cylinder Lister ST2 17.5hp. Very reliable, air cooled

 

[Ksta6]

Hi @Tumshie, 

 

Yes, I view the boat yesterday and it is a Lister engine. 

 

Thanks for your eagle eye!

 

:)

[Boater Sam]

It pretty. Someone has done a smart new interior job. You like it? Interiors are replaceable, the hull is not.

 

Its had some patching but not completely overplated, that may be a plus. Need 4 new anodes welded on below waterline

 

It very old, 43 years, the hull needs a proper thickness survey at this age, below 4mm it is not insurable fully comp. The present survey may not be anything more than a sales check.

Air cooled SR2 engine may be reliable, certainly noisy and can be expensive now to maintain, but you save by not needing antifreeze!

 

Bear in mind, many many Springers were built right up to the '90s but they were minimal and cheaply made even when new.

 

Its a £12,000 boat maximum even with the fancy finishes.

 

[Ksta6]

3 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

It pretty. Someone has done a smart new interior job. You like it? Interiors are replaceable, the hull is not.

 

Its had some patching but not completely overplated, that may be a plus. Need 4 new anodes welded on below waterline

 

It very old, 43 years, the hull needs a proper thickness survey at this age, below 4mm it is not insurable fully comp. The present survey may not be anything more than a sales check.

Air cooled SR2 engine may be reliable, certainly noisy and can be expensive now to maintain, but you save by not needing antifreeze!

 

Bear in mind, many many Springers were built right up to the '90s but they were minimal and cheaply made even when new.

 

Its a £12,000 boat maximum even with the fancy finishes.

 

Ha! No not a massive fan, funnily enough but I am an Interior Designer so doesn't scare me too much s can see potential. 

 

Thank you for the advice Sam, so you would definitely recommend a survey? 

 

12k, I am not sure he accept that..ha!

[haggis]

From a fairly quick look, I couldn't see any other access than from the stern doors. Is there any other fire exit? I noticed that the shower tray  doesn't extend all round the are where shower water will fall - like where the loo is - and the sealant looks new. Might be worth checking that water hasn't been getting below the shower tray or vinyl and that the floor below is not "spongy" from getting damp.  if you are going to be cruising and away from shore power, you might like to think about putting in another battery, or two.

Tidy looking boat though

 

haggis

[Tumshie]

17 minutes ago, Ksta6 said:

12k, I am not sure he accept that..ha!

Nobody can tell you what the boat is worth with out seeing it in person and if you spend much time of the forum you'll see that some people think certain types of boats are worth more than others (other people that is ). How every it's not a bad idea to check other boats for sale that are similar to see what they are being advertised for, I could help with bargaining. 

 

There have been several conversations on here about the buying process so it might be worth having a search about to see if you can find anything that helps you - search function top right hand corner actually quite effective. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Tumshie

[Ksta6]

3 minutes ago, haggis said:

From a fairly quick look, I couldn't see any other access than from the stern doors. Is there any other fire exit? I noticed that the shower tray  doesn't extend all round the are where shower water will fall - like where the loo is - and the sealant looks new. Might be worth checking that water hasn't been getting below the shower tray or vinyl and that the floor below is not "spongy" from getting damp.  if you are going to be cruising and away from shore power, you might like to think about putting in another battery, or two.

Tidy looking boat though

 

haggis

Hi Haggis, 

 

No there is no other access other than the stern doors, would this have any impact on the insurance? 

 

Not sure about the shower we did a very quick viewing yesterday but will be sure to have a look at that next Saturday. 

 

Yes, I think I will be cruising so will definitely get some additional batteries. 

 

It does look tidy but debating whether it's worth the money the guy wants as I am aware Springers are one of the cheaper models of boats and that hull might not have the thickness to get fully comp insurance. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Ksta6 said:

No there is no other access other than the stern doors, would this have any impact on the insurance? 

The most likely places to start a fire are ;

1) The solid fuel stove

2) The kitchen.

 

If you are in the 'front end' of the boat both of these are between you and the only access out of the boat.

I would not purchase a boat without multiple access / egress points.

 

I am fairly sure that there are safety requirements stipulating this.

 

I'll have a check and see.

 

 

[haggis]

2 minutes ago, Ksta6 said:

Hi Haggis, 

 

No there is no other access other than the stern doors, would this have any impact on the insurance?  I wasn't thinking about insurance but about how you would escape if there is a fire near the stern of the boat . Don't know about insurance. 

 

Not sure about the shower we did a very quick viewing yesterday but will be sure to have a look at that next Saturday. I think that area is worth a really good look. You should be able to feel if the floor below that area is spongy and I would ask about the new sealant. Why was this done? 

 

Yes, I think I will be cruising so will definitely get some additional batteries. Good! 

 

It does look tidy but debating whether it's worth the money the guy wants as I am aware Springers are one of the cheaper models of boats and that hull might not have the thickness to get fully comp insurance. 

Another point I noticed when reading the ad. It says that the boat has a sliding roof  over the front bed. make sure this is really watertight.

 

haggis

[Ksta6]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The most likely places to start a fire are ;

1) The solid fuel stove

2) The kitchen.

 

If you are in the 'front end' of the boat both of these are between you and the only access out of the boat.

I would not purchase a boat without multiple access / egress points.

 

I am fairly sure that there are safety requirements stipulating this.

 

I'll have a check and see.

 

 

Thanks Alan! There is actually a sliding roof window in the bedroom, not sure if this actually counts as access too?

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The most likely places to start a fire are ;

1) The solid fuel stove

2) The kitchen.

 

If you are in the 'front end' of the boat both of these are between you and the only access out of the boat.

I would not purchase a boat without multiple access / egress points.

 

I am fairly sure that there are safety requirements stipulating this.

 

I'll have a check and see.

 

 

Yes exits are mentioned in the BSS, but it does not apply to Private leisure boats :

If there's only one escape route from your boat and this becomes blocked by fire, you and other occupants on the boat could suffer personal injuries, burns or suffocation.

This is why it's a very good idea for all boats to have two means of escape from accommodation areas. To give sufficient space for people to fit through, and escape from the fire, it's recommended that all escape routes on your boat have a minimum clear opening of 0.2m2 (310in2) and a minimum width of 380mm (15ins). [6.7]

 

1 minute ago, Ksta6 said:

Thanks Alan! There is actually a sliding roof window in the bedroom, not sure if this actually counts as access too?

 

That'll be fine (and can be 'counted')

 

[Ksta6]

10 minutes ago, haggis said:

Another point I noticed when reading the ad. It says that the boat has a sliding roof  over the front bed. make sure this is really watertight.

 

haggis

Yes exactly! There is the roof hatch in the bedroom but no other means of escape other than the vertical windows. 

 

Yes, will make sure it is really water tight, it seemed pretty dry yesterday but again if torrential could be an issue.

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, Ksta6 said:

Thanks Alan! There is actually a sliding roof window in the bedroom, not sure if this actually counts as access too?

If the boat was filling with smoke could you get out of it - it's all very well and good it being legal but if you can't jump up and through it that might be something to think hard about; having said that it looks quite large and like it might be a sliding hatch to allow for escape but you would have to decide that when you see it next. 

[Ksta6]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Yes exits are mentioned in the BSS, but it does not apply to Private leisure boats :

If there's only one escape route from your boat and this becomes blocked by fire, you and other occupants on the boat could suffer personal injuries, burns or suffocation.

This is why it's a very good idea for all boats to have two means of escape from accommodation areas. To give sufficient space for people to fit through, and escape from the fire, it's recommended that all escape routes on your boat have a minimum clear opening of 0.2m2 (310in2) and a minimum width of 380mm (15ins). [6.7]

 

 

That'll be fine (and can be 'counted')

 

Yes I think it will meet the min requirements of 380mm. I will check next week on the second viewing. 

 

That's great! Thank you Alan  

8 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

If the boat was filling with smoke could you get out of it - it's all very well and good it being legal but if you can't jump up and through it that might be something to think hard about; having said that it looks quite large and like it might be a sliding hatch to allow for escape but you would have to decide that when you see it next. 

Yes all valid points. The height from the bed does look quite high, not sure if I would be able to get up and out without aid.

[Bee]

Its had a lot of new steel around and under the stern. I guess you will get insurance, as its getting on in years they may want a survey, personally I would, if possible just get a hull / underwater / stern tube survey, Springers have a slightly 'v' shaped bottom, water lies in the 'v' so that needs a look at. The hull is  the bit that matters. the pic shows that someone is using a paint roller to paint bitumastic on the nice new steel, no primer and I bet it only got 1 coat. If you have an out of water survey then use the opportunity to get a few more coats of something black and sticky on it. Apart from that it looks tidy and has what looks like sensible gravity heating ( that just means the hot water circulates by convection without a pump)  Springers were a budget boat but if I had a tight budget I'd be very happy with one.

[Nightwatch]

I don't know what to advise. Me, personally, i would look else where. Just my gut feeling. 

[blackrose]

I paid £12k for a similar aged 45ft Springer in 1998, but it wasn't as nice inside as the one the OP is interested in and it did need £2K's worth of overplating so I think I probably overpaid. 

[Captain Fizz]

I notice that it has no inverter, so no mains power when away from a land based supply.

Will definitely require more leisure batteries and a more powerful three stage charger.

How much are they asking?

[MtB]

It doesn't look like a Springer to me on that trolley. 

 

All the Springers I've ever seen but this boat appears to have a flat bottom with angled chines.

 

Or should I look again more closely?

 

 

 

 

And being brutal, look at the state of that bog, and the sofa. I bet the whole of the boat was like that before it got painted over giving it the "London whiteout" treatment. Ok blue-and-whiteout. 

[BilgePump]

This boat is obviously priced at more than 12k. Nice 'London' interior decor. No bow doors. Not a good idea. Hull, hull, hull, engine. Those two things are all that matter and if you can't check yourself then you need a surveyor. Opinions on the 'looks' count for nothing unless you know the state of those on a boat of any age.

[MtB]

 

What I mean is, I think it will revert to looking old and grubby, really quickly. 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

I don't know what to advise. Me, personally, i would look else where. Just my gut feeling. 

I would absolutely have a full survey by a good surveyor, not one with any interest in the yard or recommended by the owner. 

This assumes you like it, a lot. It takes a heck of a lot to change anything. Eg the cooker is ancient, but a good marine cooker to fit might cost a fair bit. Once you start with new gasfitting and so on, you've spent £500 and more, maybe a lot more, not to mention hassle.

I would not have it due to lack of exits, it's claustrophobic and I did not think this was a Springer thing [not an expert]. It's very, very small.

If you are desperate, it might do....................

That laminate floor is covering something that needs to be viewed. Laminate is not any use, it has to be something like a marine type ply.

Keep looking.

You never know what they will accept, it costs cash to keep a boat, plus hassle.

Edited August 11, 2019 by LadyG

[Boater Sam]

There are surveyor's thickness chalkings on the rear swim so it has been hull surveyed already, do you have a copy of it?

 

Its an early springer, chined hull, vee bottom, vee roof  and bent round rear corners, Rudder shaft in a tube not hanging on the back due to the vee stern. The cabin front is not normal Springer.

 

Stern appears to have been replated or is it just overplayed on the old rust? 

 

So you don't think £12K is right? Too much or too little? What is it up for?

[MtB]

As no-one has attempted to value it yet, I'd say £10k would be a fair price and the sum an insurance company would pay out in the event of a total loss.