leaking calorifier, advice please.

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, waterdog said:

I'm sure I've read somewhere where it was suggested that modern tanks are not as robust as they once were so calorifier failures are becoming more common due to stress fractures. It kind of makes sense if this is the case that people don't experience any problems with no accumulator if the tank is stronger in the first place.

 

Aren't the calorifiers typically fitted to most narrow boats essentially just cheap domestic household units which have been modified?

 

Proper stainless marine calorifiers are much higher quality and a lot more expensive for a given volume. 

 

https://www.seascrew.com/browse.cfm?MARINE-STAINLESS-HOT-WATER-HEATERS--CALORIFIER--ISOTEMP&l=0000000885

 

https://www.tcschandlery.co.uk/quick-nautic-boiler-b3-15ltr-1200w-water-heater-calorifier/p11041?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-b7qBRDPARIsADVbUbXTmERZ4hpUrq5zQ3PVth2aDyYL6ViLDj8p6hzTdbrzy9H9wHx7eKgaAmgHEALw_wcB

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by blackrose

[waterdog]

Update, spent this afternoon removing the rear steps to gain access to the calorifier

 

This however has revealed another issue, the carbon filter for the pump out tank has got wet and disintegrated, partially blocking the vent pipe in the process. JOY !!!!! ☹️

 

 

 

 

[blackrose]

11 minutes ago, waterdog said:

Update, spent this afternoon removing the rear steps to gain access to the calorifier

 

This however has revealed another issue, the carbon filter for the pump out tank has got wet and disintegrated, partially blocking the vent pipe in the process. JOY !!!!! ☹️

 

 

 

Take the remnants of the filter out and suck the rest out with a wet vac if you have one. It's a good idea to disconnect and give the vent pipe a vac every now and then to make sure it's clear anyway - as long as that doesn't suck up shite into the pipe! Those filters are quite pricey but you can by loose activated carbon granules on ebay, put them into a fine mesh bag and put the filled bag into the plastic filter housing - but don't pack it tightly.

 

[Chewbacka]

20 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Take the remnants of the filter out and suck the rest out with a wet vac if you have one. It's a good idea to disconnect and give the vent pipe a vac every now and then to make sure it's clear anyway - as long as that doesn't suck up shite into the pipe! Those filters are quite pricey but you can by loose activated carbon granules on ebay, put them into a fine mesh bag and put the filled bag into the plastic filter housing - but don't pack it tightly.

 

Quite pricey???  More like unbelievably expensive.............

[waterdog]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Quite pricey???  More like unbelievably expensive.............

yup, I paid £35 for one at crick show.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by waterdog

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Quite pricey???  More like unbelievably expensive.............

 

Not sure I believe that.....

 

[DHutch]

Interesting thread. I have never thought about it before, but our calorifier (hot water tank in the boat) has a nrv and doesn't have an expansion vessel, just a prv in the top. Obviously a domestic hot water tank would have an expansion vessel, or an air-gap at the top of the tank. As said, typically the expansion vessel is fitted on the cold side just after the nrv which means it doesn't see hot water or become a unnecessary loss of heat. 

 

Anything is repairable if you want, certainly a copper tank, but a lot of fitters would rather just replace it because it's easier and it's not their money. Modern domestic tanks are now stainless and I'm sure some boat tanks are too. Stainless is also repairable but requires different skills and equipment than those most plumbers carry.

 

Daniel

[Chewbacka]

7 minutes ago, DHutch said:

Interesting thread. I have never thought about it before, but our calorifier (hot water tank in the boat) has a nrv and doesn't have an expansion vessel, just a prv in the top. Obviously a domestic hot water tank would have an expansion vessel, or an air-gap at the top of the tank. As said, typically the expansion vessel is fitted on the cold side just after the nrv which means it doesn't see hot water or become a unnecessary loss of heat. 

 

Anything is repairable if you want, certainly a copper tank, but a lot of fitters would rather just replace it because it's easier and it's not their money. Modern domestic tanks are now stainless and I'm sure some boat tanks are too. Stainless is also repairable but requires different skills and equipment than those most plumbers carry.

 

Daniel

The problem with a paid for repair is it is difficult to asses how close to failure other areas of the tank are.  So you pays lots of money for a repair, it might last years or it might soon fail in a different place.  So the tank fails again and you are rightly upset and may even ‘name and shame’ the repair person.  Not worth the risk for a plumber with a good reputation.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Chewbacka

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, waterdog said:

 

 

This however has revealed another issue, the carbon filter for the pump out tank has got wet and disintegrated, partially blocking the vent pipe in the process. JOY !!!!! ☹️

 

I dont know why people fit them, I take it the vent is outside.

 

 

 

 

 

[DHutch]

4 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

The problem with a paid for repair is it is difficult to asses how close to failure other areas of the tank are.  So you pays lots of money for a repair, it might last years or it might fail in a different place.  So the tank fails again and you are rightly upset and may even ‘name and shame’ the repair person.  Not worth the risk for a plumber with a good reputation.

Sadly as you say, often a repair is expensive compared to a replacement, if only in terms of what you get. Ie, £100 for a patch £300 for a whole tank. The repair typically won't have a warranty where typically the new tank will. And as you say, the failed area may be the first of many rather than a one off. 

 

Our boats tank is nearly 30 years old, parents domestic tank just about 30yo. Tank we have just taken out of our house to replace with a larger more insulated unvented one like went in in 1965 what makes it 54 year young. Weeped at a post-it Essex flange but the tank itself was sound. 

 

 

Daniel

[cuthound]

38 minutes ago, DHutch said:

Weeped at a post-it Essex flange but the tank itself was sound. 

 

 

Daniel

 

I don't think a post-it note will stop an Essex flange from leaking ??

[DHutch]

2 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

I don't think a post-it note will stop an Essex flange from leaking ??

*Post-fit! Damm autocorrect. 

 

Dry as a bone when hot, but let it go cold and it could do about half a pint an hour! Not ideal when you're doing renovation works to the central heating and the immersion wasn't hooked up. However we digress!

 

Daniel

[WotEver]

13 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Just sayin', in case anyone wants to listen

I heard you but I wasn’t really listening. 

 

Was it important? 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I heard you but I wasn’t really listening. 

 

Was it important? 

 

I've forgotten.....

 

[trackman]

Note that it's not an accumulator we are speaking of here but an expansion vessel. It will be the same in all respects as an accumulator but for its working pressure. As it's to allow expansion it needs to be pressurised to slightly higher than the water pump cut out pressure and no more. That stops the pump from filling it up, but allows the water of the calorifier to expand into it as it heats up.

Make sure you get one that's intended for drinking water. The common ones, for heating systems, assume the system is full of corrosion inhibitor, not something you'd want in your fresh water. They rot very rapidly when used on fresh water systems. I know because a large, well known chandlery chain sold me one with the new calorifier I got from them. They should have advised me better, as it didn't last a year. The replacement stainless steel one has lasted years.