Jump to content

Cyclists sued boater


Steve Manc

Featured Posts

3 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Now if we could just agree there are nice people on both sides too that would be even better ?

 

I'm happy with that!  I have many friends who are cyclists.  Hell, I have three bikes myself and I have yet to meet a nicer person! ?

 

George

  • Greenie 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

and I have not seen anyone who has said anything different but the fact remains that motorists can be easily identified as long as you can see their registration plate but cyclists can't so are free to ride as they please with little fear of consequences. That is the situation that some here do not seem to want to address.

As much as motorists can be easily identified, you must surely have heard of numerous stories of someone's car being pranged into and whoever did it simply drove off or someone has been knocked over and the motorist has driven off and in many cases, they get away with it.

 

The language you seem insistent on using is inferring that cyclists are scheming to cause damage and chaos and slip into the night never to be found. If I injured someone or something on my bike, I would stop. All the cyclists I know would do exactly the same.

 

The kind of person who, on their bike, would injure someone or something, and then clear off is the same kind of person who if they hit something in their car would do exactly the same. The kind of person we call a "prick". And I'd like to think most of us aren't pricks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

 as I'm aware most cyclist are not deliberately trying to do anything to harm you or avoid prosecution. 

Neither are most drivers.  Registration numbers for cycles hasn't been mentioned (much) in this thread but in previous threads have shown many who support cycling resisting the idea of clear identification on cycles.

 

In case anybody doesn't see what I am getting at drivers who aren't trying to harm anybody or avoid prosecution don't think twice about having a registration plate, so why should cyclists?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Neither are most drivers.  Registration numbers for cycles hasn't been mentioned (much) in this thread but in previous threads have shown many who support cycling resisting the idea of clear identification on cycles.

 

In case anybody doesn't see what I am getting at drivers who aren't trying to harm anybody or avoid prosecution don't think twice about having a registration plate, so why should cyclists?

Here's two reasons: cost and the logistics/practicality of having a number plate on the back of a push bike that is visible. One of the many, many reasons of commuting on a bike or using one as general transport rather than a motorbike or a car or whatever other form of transport, is the cost of a bike. You can buy a push bike for less than 50 quid. When you start enforcing compulsory insurance and registration plates then it becomes a limiting factor on who can afford to ride one.

 

And where are you going to put it? I have sweet little room on my bike as it is without a great big licence plate hanging off the back or side of my bike. How can children afford to register and insure their bikes?

Edited by NB Caelmiri
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Neither are most drivers.  Registration numbers for cycles hasn't been mentioned (much) in this thread but in previous threads have shown many who support cycling resisting the idea of clear identification on cycles.

 

In case anybody doesn't see what I am getting at drivers who aren't trying to harm anybody or avoid prosecution don't think twice about having a registration plate, so why should cyclists?

The obvious answer would revolve around the size of the vehicle in question, even motorcycles only have one on the rear for this reason - the requirement for a front being done away with many years ago, due to the dangerous aspect of a blade like structure on the front mudguard. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if I ride a unicycle? Should I still have to have a registration plate on it? What if I ride a childrens bike?

 

Where would I put a licence plate on a BMX bike like this that doesn't interfere with the rider and make it dangerous to ride?

 

bmx-chris-childs-sunday-bikes-ex.jpg.750dacf923fbfb38298dd17e80fdcac6.jpg

Edited by NB Caelmiri
Link to comment
Share on other sites

In new south wales you have to carry your driving licence when cycling. If requested or following an accident you have to provide it.

you can get points or fines on your driving licence for cycling  related offences, as a bike is subject to the road rules.

You can also get prosecuted for road traffic offences if you dont have a licence of course.

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

Here's two reasons: cost and the logistics/practicality of having a number plate on the back of a push bike that is visible. One of the many, many reasons of commuting on a bike or using one as general transport rather than a motorbike or a car or whatever other form of transport, is the cost of a bike. You can buy a push bike for less than 50 quid. When you start enforcing compulsory insurance and registration plates then it becomes a limiting factor on who can afford to ride one.

 

And where are you going to put it? I have sweet little room on my bike as it is without a great big licence plate hanging off the back or side of my bike.

I would have no problem displaying a number on the back of my bike and if it was compulsory bikes would be produced with the means to do so and accessories for already produced bikes.

 

I am afraid cost is IMO a weak argument as it is putting a minimal cost over the ability to hold someone responsible for their actions.  Cyclists don't complain about the cost having to put lights  on the bike if they want to ride at night.  What would you feel about compulsory helmets?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Neither are most drivers.  Registration numbers for cycles hasn't been mentioned (much) in this thread but in previous threads have shown many who support cycling resisting the idea of clear identification on cycles.

They have been mentioned previously in other threads, I can remember replying to posts on the subject of car style registrations numbers for cyclists in the past and as far as I'm aware no cyclist actively disagreed with having that only the cyclist bashers seem to have it in their heads that cyclists are point blank refusing. 

 

43 minutes ago, Jerra said:

In case anybody doesn't see what I am getting at drivers who aren't trying to harm anybody or avoid prosecution don't think twice about having a registration plate, so why should cyclists?

Any one would have to be as thick as mince to not get what you're banging on about but... again with the over active echo chamber (commonly known as a circlejerk) cyclist aren't thinking twice or even avoiding a registration plate we just don't have one so it doesn't matter how hard you tug this subject I can't magic what you want out of thin air, but I'm sure a flat-earther or anti-vaxxer will be along shortly and they will be more than happy to keep discussing hopes and dreams and thoughts and prayers with you. 

Edited by Tumshie
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many people advocate cycling with a Hi Viz vest. If the Ministry of Transport bought these in bulk, they could be purchased with a unique registration number printed on them for around £2 each, and issued to all cyclists.

 

Kills two birds with one stone, cyclists not only become more visible but can be identified readily as well.

 

What's not to like?

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

In new south wales you have to carry your driving licence when cycling. If requested or following an accident you have to provide it.

you can get points or fines on your driving licence for cycling  related offences, as a bike is subject to the road rules.

You can also get prosecuted for road traffic offences if you dont have a licence of course.

 

Genuine question - how does that work for an adult who hasn't passed their test or for someone not old enough to drive? Is there some other form of ID that they can or should carry? Part if the problem with that is that it doesn't go far enough for some who are fearful of hit and run cyclist and not being able to see their registration, so while that seems to me like a perfectly reasonable process I can't see it appeasing the more vocal on the forum. 

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Many people advocate cycling with a Hi Viz vest. If the Ministry of Transport bought these in bulk, they could be purchased with a unique registration number printed on them for around £2 each, and issued to all cyclists.

 

Kills two birds with one stone, cyclists not only become more visible but can be identified readily as well.

 

What's not to like?

 

 

That's a great idea - you just forgot one thing..... the rest of the registration process. The wearing of the number while likely to be an inconvenience is probbly the part of this whole hullabaloo that's the easy part. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Genuine question - how does that work for an adult who hasn't passed their test or for someone not old enough to drive? Is there some other form of ID that they can or should carry? Part if the problem with that is that it doesn't go far enough for some who are fearful of hit and run cyclist and not being able to see their registration, so while that seems to me like a perfectly reasonable process I can't see it appeasing the more vocal on the forum. 

That's a great idea - you just forgot one thing..... the rest of the registration process. The wearing of the number while likely to be an inconvenience is probbly the part of this whole hullabaloo that's the easy part. :D

I'm not so sure, every year tens of thousands of fishermen and women, manage to buy a license for their rods. If they can manage that momentous task, I'm sure it's not beyond the scope of the Lycra louts on their bicycles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tumshie said:

It's seems like you are saying that cyclist are actively against a car style registration because I haven't read an comments on this forum written by a cyclist that would suggest that. There isn't a system in place that we can use and I'm not prepared to broadcast my home address on my person for any psycho to come banging on my door but as far as I'm aware most cyclist are not deliberately trying to do anything to harm you or avoid prosecution. 

 

 

 

So can I take it you do not drive because the number plate would allow psychos to come banging on your door - apart from the fact it will not unless an authorised body/person gives them your address. That is in my view a very silly argument against compulsory cyclist registration and identification.

 

From simple observation I have seen countless cyclists over the years behaving in a way that could harm or other people. The reason they don't is often because of people like  Alan who was aware of what was going on and prepared for it, avoiding an accidents only to get abuse from the idiot who was clearly breaking the law and not paying attention. I would suggest that for every idiot cyclists who does get injured there are very many others who would have been injured or injured somebody else except for that parties attention and reaction.

 

Of course it is not the majority but the proportion seems to be growing. Its interesting that the cycling vigilantes wear head cams and openly admit they report idiot drivers yet the driver has no effective way of reporting them so action can be taken. Even a dash cam won't do it because unless the cyclist is known to the police so their face is recognised there is not way of knowing who they are.  I also note many of these cycle vigilantes seem to very aggressive towards drivers who have offended them. Equality before the law - I don't think so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Phil. said:

I'm not so sure, every year tens of thousands of fishermen and women, manage to buy a license for their rods. If they can manage that momentous task, I'm sure it's not beyond the scope of the Lycra louts on their bicycles.

Buying a licence to fish a beat is not the same as setting up a national registration for a whole country full of cyclists - buying a fishing permit is closer in practice to buying a raffle ticket.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Buying a licence to fish a beat is not the same as setting up a national registration for a whole country full of cyclists - buying a fishing permit is closer in practice to buying a raffle ticket.

So the EA doesn't maintain a data base of all people who have rod licences?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Phil. said:

I'm not so sure, every year tens of thousands of fishermen and women, manage to buy a license for their rods. If they can manage that momentous task, I'm sure it's not beyond the scope of the Lycra louts on their bicycles.

Of course it is not but then they might be more easily identified so we get them arguing against it.

 

In fact we have that cycle speed app. that proves the average speed of cyclists using it and on the western K&A it would make ideal evidence for action but the authorities sit on their hands.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, furnessvale said:

Beat me to it.  The EA rod licence is a national (England and Wales) document which must be carried at all times when fishing.

 

George

So such databases are perfectly feasible, The internet can supply a car number plate for a tenner, a once off fee unlike an annual rod licence, then a small fee if you change any details, as you have to do with your car licence.

 

That all seems perfectly achievable and reasonable to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Of course it is not but then they might be more easily identified so we get them arguing against it.

 

In fact we have that cycle speed app. that proves the average speed of cyclists using it and on the western K&A it would make ideal evidence for action but the authorities sit on their hands.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So such databases are perfectly feasible, The internet can supply a car number plate for a tenner, a once off fee unlike an annual rod licence, then a small fee if you change any details, as you have to do with your car licence.

 

That all seems perfectly achievable and reasonable to me.

It's all fairly easy to implement if there is a will, sadly the Lycra louts have a good lobby group who will wiggle and squirm to avoid this. With online set up it would be easy to include a requirement for insurance as well, before a license is granted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Phil. said:

 

It's all fairly easy to implement if there is a will, sadly the Lycra louts have a good lobby group who will wiggle and squirm to avoid this. With online set up it would be easy to include a requirement for insurance as well, before a license is granted.

Wasn't there mass civil disobedience some years ago when BW attempted to enforce bike licences on (I think) the K & A?  The Bridgewater also springs to mind.

 

George

Edited by furnessvale
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Phil. said:

 

It's all fairly easy to implement if there is a will, sadly the Lycra louts have a good lobby group who will wiggle and squirm to avoid this. With online set up it would be easy to include a requirement for insurance as well, before a license is granted.

What I find strange is there are those on here who are clearly not Lycra Louts who seem to think it is too expensive, too difficult etc.  I just can't get my head round why they oppose it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Phil. said:

I'm not so sure, every year tens of thousands of fishermen and women, manage to buy a license for their rods. If they can manage that momentous task, I'm sure it's not beyond the scope of the Lycra louts on their bicycles.

Yawn back to attacking people because they wear practical clothing.

so last year

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Yawn back to attacking people because they wear practical clothing.

so last year

 

It's a stereotype, Roland, but "lycra lout", to me at least, is more an attack on the frame of mind of some cyclists rather than the practical clothing they wear.

 

George

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

So can I take it you do not drive

For a man who prides himself on being an engineer you make rather a lot of assumptions. 

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

So can I take it you do not drive because the number plate would allow psychos to come banging on your door - apart from the fact it will not unless an authorised body/person gives them your address.

I'm sorry Tony I really don't understand what you are trying to say here - but I think you might be getting a little confused.

 

I didn't not say that I would be fearful to wear a registration number - just that they were not available to me, I said I would not be happy to wear my name and address which would make it easier for someone to make a nuisance at my door - I'm sorry that you are struggling to understand my posts, but what you think I'm posting and what I'm actually posting are really not the same thing. You seem to be doing this a lot and I'm not sure if its on purpose or if it's something about my style of writing. 

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

From simple observation I have seen countless cyclists over the years behaving in a way that could harm or other people. The reason they don't is often because of people like  Alan who was aware of what was going on and prepared for it, avoiding an accidents only to get abuse from the idiot who was clearly breaking the law and not paying attention. I would suggest that for every idiot cyclists who does get injured there are very many others who would have been injured or injured somebody else except for that parties attention and reaction.

I can't help thinking you predominately see these things because you look for them but don't see the things that don't verify what you want to believe - that's normal we all do it. That is why our opinions shouldn't be confused with things like science and statistics. You are right that there are accidents nobody's saying other wise but you are far from a reliable witness, as they say. 

 

Again Tony I'm sorry but I don't know who Alan is - is this Alan de Enfield from an earlier post?

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Of course it is not the majority but the proportion seems to be growing. Its interesting that the cycling vigilantes wear head cams and openly admit they report idiot drivers yet the driver has no effective way of reporting them so action can be taken. Even a dash cam won't do it because unless the cyclist is known to the police so their face is recognised there is not way of knowing who they are.  I also note many of these cycle vigilantes seem to very aggressive towards drivers who have offended them. Equality before the law - I don't think so.

The population in general is also growing so there is more of everything - the world changes whether we like it or not and usually faster than we would have it - I understand that you are fearful but trying to talk to people like every one of them is criminal and that they are trying to defy you at every turn is not helping your side of the argument. You are repeatedly spiteful and overly emotional which makes me believe that any conversation with you is pointless, you repeatedly say that I have said one thing when it is quite obvious that I have actually said something quite different. There is absolutely no reason or logic to your argument just heated angry emotion, I can't help you with that, I can't offer any words that can make you not angry; you have developed this picture in your mind and a registration number isn't going to make that anger go a way - in fact I would say you are clinging to the registration number because you know it can't be fulfilled and there for your anger can carry on while you tell yourself it is justified. 

 

People ware gopros and use dash cams to help prove that they were behaving lawfully so that they have proof if challenged - almost all road users use them. They are also really handy if you want to upload nice scenic country drives to youtube so not necessarily evidence of a criminal element. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Of course it is not but then they might be more easily identified so we get them arguing against it.

 

In fact we have that cycle speed app. that proves the average speed of cyclists using it and on the western K&A it would make ideal evidence for action but the authorities sit on their hands.

 

 

1 hour ago, Phil. said:

 

It's all fairly easy to implement if there is a will, sadly the Lycra louts have a good lobby group who will wiggle and squirm to avoid this. With online set up it would be easy to include a requirement for insurance as well, before a license is granted.

See now you two just sound like you went off your meds.... ?

Edited by Tumshie
spelling
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Jerra said:

What I find strange is there are those on here who are clearly not Lycra Louts who seem to think it is too expensive, too difficult etc.  I just can't get my head round why they oppose it.

Because of the cost and practicalities of it. Further research has suggested that there has in the past been government research into the cost of implementing such a system and the cost outweighed the benefits. Plus the cost to the individual. It'll become a barrier that stops people getting into cycling. The article I read, someone did some rough calculations and suggested 

 

Quote

The administration of VED (licence, tax, whatever you want to call it) is ~£3.75 per vehicle (£127,689,000 collection costs of VED and 34,100,000 cars 2009-2010). According to the DfT, in 2009 there were 3.5m bikes sold in the UK compared to 2.9m vehicles. So if we take the number of cars taxed in 2009-2010, divide by 2.9 and times by 3.5 we arrive at 41,155,172 which I think is fair estimate for the number of bikes currently in the UK. That would mean the cost of taxing bicycles would be over £1.5 billion  (£1,543,311,895) per year.

 

Quote

In Switzerland, bike registration was required until 2012. Administrative burdens, the cost of implementation and enforcement and the fact most cyclists are already covered by their vehicle liability insurance were major reasons the program eventually failed. The revenue generated by the program also didn’t cover the costs of administrative fees — leaving the cost to taxpayers.

If the Swiss can't implement a system, what chance do you think the clowns at Westminster have of doing so?

 

It is too expensive for the benefits of targeting a handful of cyclists who ride too fast down the towpath.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.