Winding after a lock - who has priority to lock ?

[Paul C]

Its pretty much assured, if a winding hole is big enough to turn the boat in, two boats can pass in it too.

[BWM]

3 hours ago, aracer said:

So it makes more sense for everyone in the queue to wait another 3 minutes with the lock doing nothing than for another boat to go straight into the lock you've just left and start using it whilst you turn? You get yourself out of the way a lot more quickly by moving to the side to let another boat use the lock.

My opinion remains the same but is specific to that and similar locations, it is sensible and in the near twenty years i have been in that location this has always been the norm. As for pulling into the side, with moorings on one side and invariably full visitor mooring on the other, that is not an option. 

 Most people are both understanding and patient enough for any disagreement to occur. 

[Boater Sam]

If my crew, wife, is still on the lock, its mine. If you don't agree, argue with her. Beware she has a long windlass.

[Paul C]

6 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

If my crew, wife, is still on the lock, its mine. If you don't agree, argue with her. Beware she has a long windlass.

LOL, exactly what would she do with the windlass if the wrong boat enters when her back is turned or she leans over to tie her shoelaces? Or even right in her face?

[BWM]

28 minutes ago, Boater Sam said:

If my crew, wife, is still on the lock, its mine. If you don't agree, argue with her. Beware she has a long windlass.

I totally agree with you, having done the work and still being present it seems absurd to do anything else.

 My better half would also have a few words on the subject!

[Boater Sam]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

LOL, exactly what would she do with the windlass if the wrong boat enters when her back is turned or she leans over to tie her shoelaces? Or even right in her face?

I suggest that you don't try it, I will not be responsible as I will be on the boat checking my gauges, greaser, tea temperature etc. Nothing to do with me.

 

This scenario does occur when we wind in the junction below Wardle lock, but I turn and go back in the lock in less than a minute and its impossible for another boat to pass me whilst I am winding. 

However, if the waiting boat is on the lock mooring immediately below the lock rather than hiding round the corner on the T&M it would be able to get in the lock before me.

In which event my crew would work them through if they desired without any qualms. 

[aracer]

4 hours ago, BWM said:

My opinion remains the same but is specific to that and similar locations, it is sensible and in the near twenty years i have been in that location this has always been the norm.

Your opinion is wrong, because it doesn't make more sense at all in terms of efficient use of the lock.

4 hours ago, BWM said:

As for pulling into the side, with moorings on one side and invariably full visitor mooring on the other, that is not an option.

Moorings on one side and visitor moorings on the other side of the obvious place to pass immediately below the lock?

?

7 hours ago, Paul C said:

Its pretty much assured, if a winding hole is big enough to turn the boat in, two boats can pass in it too.

 

[aracer]

3 hours ago, BWM said:

I totally agree with you, having done the work and still being present it seems absurd to do anything else.

 My better half would also have a few words on the subject!

What work? The work to bring your boat up and let it out of the lock? I don't see any other work the crew has done - I don't suppose they've even done the normal full complement of work required to use a lock. As for the latter, I'd be more than happy to share words with somebody who thought I should wait several minutes to use a lock which isn't currently in use.

 

As already expressed on this thread, the instant your boat has left the lock it's no longer your lock no matter what your intentions are or where your crew are. Meanwhile you seem to think it perfectly reasonable to obstruct the passage of other boats for your own convenience. There's a word for that sort of attitude.

 

edit: though I note we're talking a GU lock, in which case if I was the only boat waiting to go up and assuming you have a NB I would of course wait for you to turn and come back in, because not to wait would be... hmm, let me think of an appropriate word... selfish

Edited August 13, 2019 by aracer

[aracer]

3 hours ago, Boater Sam said:

I suggest that you don't try it, I will not be responsible as I will be on the boat checking my gauges, greaser, tea temperature etc. Nothing to do with me.

Well if we're doing threats by proxy, how big is your wife and how nimble?

[Paul C]

I think I met Boater Sam's wife at a lock once. Shortly afterwards, I gave up dating and got a puppy.

[GUMPY]

On 08/08/2019 at 12:21, Rebotco said:

Alternatively there is a winding hole about 15 mins before the lock, with just a shortish walk into Bradford if you so wished.

I would turn there and reverse into BoA

 

[BWM]

3 hours ago, aracer said:

Your opinion is wrong, because it doesn't make more sense at all in terms of efficient use of the lock.

Moorings on one side and visitor moorings on the other side of the obvious place to pass immediately below the lock?

?

 

My opinion doesn't require your approval to be valid and to be honest i think this entire discussion is pointless, the correct way of dealing with these fluid situations is done on the moment, and fortunately i have yet to meet anyone in this situation pompous enough to demand passage during a manoeuvre that can be carried out efficiently on leaving a lock. With potential for stronger winds, the flows from the lock emptying making a sometimes tricky, tight turn near impossible. This doesn't even take into account others turning up to use the lock with someone turning now in the way trying to turn with a lock being operated-the list of variables is endless, and certainly beyond the scope of a virtual chat.

I'm not sure what effect on efficiency of lock use is caused by this, i empty a lock once, go back in and up again - total efficiency beyond dispute. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by BWM

[Paul C]

10 minutes ago, BWM said:

 this entire discussion is pointless

Don't be so negative! There is an elegant compromise solution available. To save time, once you have used the lock and come out of it a couple of yards, instead of turning, reverse back into it.

[aracer]

3 hours ago, BWM said:

My opinion doesn't require your approval to be valid and to be honest i think this entire discussion is pointless, the correct way of dealing with these fluid situations is done on the moment, and fortunately i have yet to meet anyone in this situation pompous enough to demand passage during a manoeuvre that can be carried out efficiently on leaving a lock. With potential for stronger winds, the flows from the lock emptying making a sometimes tricky, tight turn near impossible. This doesn't even take into account others turning up to use the lock with someone turning now in the way trying to turn with a lock being operated-the list of variables is endless, and certainly beyond the scope of a virtual chat.

I'm not sure what effect on efficiency of lock use is caused by this, i empty a lock once, go back in and up again - total efficiency beyond dispute. 

I'm not sure you understand the concept of opinions - you're entitled to one, but that doesn't make it valid. For example you might have the opinion that pump out is superior to cassette and that would clearly be wrong.

 

Do you really not understand that in the context of a queue of boats waiting to use a lock, the use of a lock is only efficient if it is filling, emptying, gates being opened or closed or a boat driving in or out. The lock sitting there for 3 minutes with the gates open isn't efficient (and wastes 3 minutes of the time of everybody who subsequently has to wait to use the lock, even if that is hours later with the lock in continuous use in between).

[The Dreamer]

On 07/08/2019 at 14:41, jradley said:

A quick etiquette question regarding priority at a lock..

I am fairly sure that any question about priority on the canal network rather misses the point of boating on the canal network!  Frankly if it were me, I would expect to go to the back of the line.  Equally if, I was at the front of the line and you remonstrated that you had priority, I would let you go first.  Don’t get me wrong, in life I am no pushover, but cruising the network is not life as I otherwise know it!

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 hours ago, The Dreamer said:

I am fairly sure that any question about priority on the canal network rather misses the point of boating on the canal network!  Frankly if it were me, I would expect to go to the back of the line.  Equally if, I was at the front of the line and you remonstrated that you had priority, I would let you go first.  Don’t get me wrong, in life I am no pushover, but cruising the network is not life as I otherwise know it!

For a comparatively new poster here (welcome) you have very much the right attitude, and I'm in total agreement with you. There are far more important things in life than,"Am I first in the queue?", this is an attitude carried over from driving on roads where if anyone 'pushes in' in front of you it is taken as a personal slight and must be reacted to. On the canals I am in no rush to get anywhere since, if I were, I wouldn't be in a boat, if it is important to someone to go first as far as I'm concerned, let them get on with it.

[Sea Dog]

10 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

....this is an attitude carried over from driving on roads where if anyone 'pushes in' in front of you it is taken as a personal slight and must be reacted to.

You raise an interesting point here, WV. Many folk appear to change for the worse behind the wheel of a car, but may otherwise be lovely if met in life. Conversely, most folk appear to change for the better when engaged in life at 3mph. I guess this means that, should you meet one of the few ars€#0!€$ on the cut, you're probably meeting a true, dyed in the wool, proper ocean-going ars€#0!€ and nothing's gonna change it!  I agree: preserve your own calm and let them on with it. 

[jradley]

It's rather apt that this thread has been resurrected in the last few days.... we got back from our holiday on Friday. As it happens we didn't turn after the lock - mainly because there was absolutely nowhere near to moor on either side of the lock so we turned at B-o-A marina instead and reversed into a spot just beyond the marina entrance.

 

For those that don't know the area well it is total blooming mayhem. The first time we arrived, at 6pm-ish, there was nowhere to moor or wait for the lock except the water point. We waited there while 2 boats ahead went down, another 2 came up, one of which wanted the water point and another boat was already standing off waiting to go down with us, blocking the canal due to moored boats on both sides. Speaking to one of the vlockies when we came back later in the week he suggested that is not busy at all by B-o-A standards. There can be literally nowhere to moor for half a mile either side the lock, so people wanting to lock just bob around trying to get out of each others way. In that situation, if someone did turn then the best they could do is go back in to the lock and get out the way, or, as suggested above, don't turn and go to the marina to turn about 1 mile further on and come back to join the fun.