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Canal navigation referance by boat length


Mick in Bangkok

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I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

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3 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 

I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

You may find this useful although it is not in map form.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32433-waterway-dimensions.pdf

 

 

Howard

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There is the small problem that lengths boaters KNOW will fit, be it with a bit of a fiddle, have a smaller length according to CaRT.

 

Edited to add I think the Calder & Hebble is a case in point. I think 60ft plus narrowboats have passed.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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26 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 

I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

We have one, we started off with the ordinary map and adjusted it with a felt tip pen :).

 

..............Dave

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31 minutes ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 

I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

Can we also have one for boats over 71' please, as we don't fit any  of your categories!

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Edited to add I think the Calder & Hebble is a case in point. I think 60ft plus narrowboats have passe

I believe 60ft is more or less the absolute limit for the C&H, and even that may mean a fair amount of shuffling or winding to traverse the very shortest locks.

Having observed two 57 feet boats unable to get out of a lock because they couldn't get either bottom gate past the bow, I'm not sure I'd want to try it in anything much longer, though people clearly do.

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Can we also have one for boats over 71' please, as we don't fit any  of your categories!

I believe 60ft is more or less the absolute limit for the C&H, and even that may mean a fair amount of shuffling or winding to traverse the very shortest locks.

Having observed two 57 feet boats unable to get out of a lock because they couldn't get either bottom gate past the bow, I'm not sure I'd want to try it in anything much longer, though people clearly do.

Yes, the 57'6" limit only works for a wide beam, where the longest bit is in the middle, allowing the bottom gates to swing. Found this out the hard way when I shared a lock with another 57' boat on the C&H and we had to refill the lock and take one boat out, before trying again. 60' is the absolute limit here. The shortest locks are the top two at Salterhebble. Recommended approach on these two with a 60'er is to descend them going backwards so the less deep bow can be kept in the mitre of the top gates and reduce the risk of getting caught on the cill.. I travelled with a 60' boat and the bottom gate just cleared the stern. Any longer and it wouldn't have worked.

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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3 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 

I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

 

I have just the thing on my wall. The wide canals are a wide line and the narrow, a thin line.

 

Pic to follow...

 

 

C0E37CA9-4D8E-4149-87BB-3A2EE300919E.jpeg

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The hard bit is figuring out where I got it from. It was a folded map in Ordnance Survey style I bought on ebay, and I cut off the waffle around the outside of it and mounted it in the frame. 

 

I can't see them on ebay now. Does anyone recognise it? Is a very good map!

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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3 hours ago, Mick in Bangkok said:

 

I have seen canal maps highlighting in colour navigation by boat width, i.e. narrow canals for 7’ wide boats and wide canals and rivers. Is there any map available either on the internet or even in hard copy for wall hanging that indicates canals by boat length, i.e. boats up to 57’, boats up no 65’ and bots up to 71’ for easy reference of where narrow boats of various lengths can and cannot go or where bottle necks are located.

Cheers Mick

No need for a map really as the situation is simpler for length than for width. If your boat is under about 60 ft long and 7 ft wide you can go (almost) anywhere. Narrow boats longer than about 60 ft are unable to use the Leeds and Liverpool east of Wigan, the Rufford Branch and Ribble Link, the Huddersfield Broad, the Calder and Hebble between Salterhebble and Wakefield, the Tinsley flight up to Sheffield and the Ripon Canal.

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50 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

The hard bit is figuring out where I got it from. It was a folded map in Ordnance Survey style I bought on ebay, and I cut off the waffle around the outside of it and mounted it in the frame. 

 

I can't see them on ebay now. Does anyone recognise it? Is a very good map!

 

 

Looks like the very standard Collins Nicholsons Waterways Map to me.

Very freely available - here is the first hit I got on Amazon....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Nicholson-Inland-Waterways-Britain/dp/0008146535

HOWEVER!

You do need to read OP!  He is after one based on length not width!

Edited by alan_fincher
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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

The hard bit is figuring out where I got it from. It was a folded map in Ordnance Survey style I bought on ebay, and I cut off the waffle around the outside of it and mounted it in the frame. 

 

I can't see them on ebay now. Does anyone recognise it? Is a very good map!

 

 

It looks very similar to my Stanfords - maybe a different edition.

 

 

 

20190805_144735.jpg

20190805_145203.jpg

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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4 hours ago, David Mack said:

No need for a map really as the situation is simpler for length than for width. If your boat is under about 60 ft long and 7 ft wide you can go (almost) anywhere. Narrow boats longer than about 60 ft are unable to use the Leeds and Liverpool east of Wigan, the Rufford Branch and Ribble Link, the Huddersfield Broad, the Calder and Hebble between Salterhebble and Wakefield, the Tinsley flight up to Sheffield and the Ripon Canal.

Most of us on here instinctively know where the "short" canals are, but I think for newcomers to canal boating it would be useful to be able to refer to a map for route planning.  

 

I guess Mick is still looking at that CTS trad at Rugby Boats...?  It is frustratingly described as 60' 8" which makes it touch and go on the Pennines,  Assuming Rugby have measured it accurately I wonder why anyone would specify a boat slightly over 60'? 

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8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Rudder?

Good point.  LOA should include the rudder, but I'm wondering now if narrowboat measurements typically exclude it - that might well explain the discrepancy.

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16 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Good point.  LOA should include the rudder, but I'm wondering now if narrowboat measurements typically exclude it - that might well explain the discrepancy.

 

But if you include the rudder, the boat has a variable length, unless ypu quote the maximum length when the rudder is positioned dead ahead.

 

A friend who used to work for the Vehicle Standards Agency once told me that the current generation of car transporters are believed exceed the maximum permitted length when going around a corner, but because they have to be measured in a straight line they are allowed on the road without the usual extra conditions imposed on overlength vehicles.

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Just now, cuthound said:

 

But if you include the rudder, the boat has a variable length, unless ypu quote the maximum length when the rudder is positioned dead ahead.

 

A friend who used to work for the Vehicle Standards Agency once told me that the current generation of car transporters are believed exceed the maximum permitted length when going around a corner, but because they have to be measured in a straight line they are allowed on the road without the usual extra conditions imposed on overlength vehicles.

That's my understanding of LOA, but I bet lots of boats don't include the rudder.  From a narrowboat perspective you want to know if the boat will fit certain locks.  If the rudder can be turned enough so that it doesn't extend the boat's length in a practical sense then I suppose it's reasonable to exclude it when quoting the length. 

 

When it comes to a boat said to be 60-61 foot though, I'd want to be 100% certain how it's been measured.

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22 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

That's my understanding of LOA, but I bet lots of boats don't include the rudder.  From a narrowboat perspective you want to know if the boat will fit certain locks.  If the rudder can be turned enough so that it doesn't extend the boat's length in a practical sense then I suppose it's reasonable to exclude it when quoting the length. 

 

When it comes to a boat said to be 60-61 foot though, I'd want to be 100% certain how it's been measured.

Sheffield size Humber keels used to do the Tinsley flight and other short locks with the rudder hard over to fit in, so there is a precedent for quoting length without the rudder. Even more important when they were sail powered and horse drawn, or bow hauled, when the rudders were much bigger.

 

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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3 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Most of us on here instinctively know where the "short" canals are, but I think for newcomers to canal boating it would be useful to be able to refer to a map for route planning.  

 

I guess Mick is still looking at that CTS trad at Rugby Boats...?  It is frustratingly described as 60' 8" which makes it touch and go on the Pennines,  Assuming Rugby have measured it accurately I wonder why anyone would specify a boat slightly over 60'? 

 

For a boat that length, no map is going to give you a definitive answer whether it will fit through a particular lock. There are simply too many variables in the exact length of the boat and shape of the bow and stern, together with diferences in the exact layout of individual locks of nominally the same size.

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