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Can anyone spare me half an hour for a chat Lee Navigation?


Cleggy

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14 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

All good advice but two points in which I differ.

 

1. £2000 for mooring, I very much doubt that around London, specially if it is a proper residential mooring rather than a leisure mooring and keep your head down. You may have to add another zero in London.

 

2. Solar to become self sufficient. On a narrowboat I very much doubt that in the winter. You won't have enough roof space for the required number of panels and it will cost a lot more than £500. £500 of solar will be find for the mid summer months.

 

 

I would comment that batteries are probably best considered consumables that need replacing every very few years. When new to boating many people ruin their batteries within months until they grasp just how much recharging is needed. The recharging is easy in you have a shoreline hookup but not so easy when cruising.

Yep, I did not go in to detail, just threw my expenditure in, I already have three smallish, old panels not "wired to code" , maybe OK in high summer, I will add:

two x new 275w panels, a 40 amp solar controller, a 375 watt victron inverter, cables brackets, breaker, cost £509 delivered [a special deal from Bimble Solar].

New Batteries are leisure only, 3 x 135ah lead acid, deep cycle, five year guarantee. The current system has one battery bank [bad idea]: many assorted batteries, a full day of sunshine and they get up to 12.80 volts, and they fall to 11.something if not topped up daily, I might have a few LED lights on for an hour or so, laptop and electronics are on  mains [shoreline at approx 18p  per unit.]. Every two weeks I use the laundrette at the marina,on a fine drying day, all my clothes are washed for approx £5.00, which is a great deal.

I can only do all these time consuming things 'cos I don't work for a living!

The fridge is the main energy eater, I am working on reducing it's demands, or it will have to go, and be replaced by something more modern.

Edited by LadyG
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4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

New Batteries are leisure only, 3 x 135ah lead acid, deep cycle, five year guarantee. 

I just thought I’d point out that the last three words in the above sentence aren’t worth the electrons used to type them. 

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Have you read the battery charging piece I pointed you to yet?

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

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7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I just thought I’d point out that the last three words in the above sentence aren’t worth the electrons used to type them. 

I know, but comparing quality, what do you do?

The three year the two year and the one year batteries suggest lower quality. 

I'm very careful about electron expenditure, I've had them over-excited on a number of occasions. The batteries were boiling furiously  when I forgot to turn off the 1960 style battery charger, and it just kept going!

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I'm very careful about electron expenditure, I've got them over-excited on a number of occasions.

You have to be careful doing that otherwise you’ll find little protons appearing all over the place. 

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8 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

 

(And please stick to using the Forums standard format for typeface and sizing; your earlier posts were almost impossible to read on a tablet!)

Stop taking the tablets then.

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

It is all doable but not on a shoe string. As Alan says a "silent" cocooned diesel generator will do the job but it will be expensive.

There is no such thing as a SILENT cocooned diesel generator. 

Some chap on a posh boat moored opposite a few weeks ago, at 10pm  I asked him very politely to turn his engine off as I had a long day ahead. He said, my engine is off, it's my silent genny. I asked him to either turn it off  move down the cut half a mile, or I would report him to CRT in the morning. The SILENT benny, was turned off almost straight away. I wear a hearing aid for higher end hearing loss, my lower end hearing is awesome, sometimes unfortunately, I can generally hear a boat coming 1/2 mile away very early in the mornings....

 

 

The only silent generator is solar panels. .as previously stated in here, they dont do a lot in winter if you are living aboard. ....a decent array will give you late Feb to October support, or self sufficiency, in Winter you will need to back this up with genny, engine, landline.

Edited by matty40s
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Best advice I can give is get out and talk face to face with boaters with  different types/looking boats and ask questions, walk the towpaths. It’s boaters you’ll be meeting daily if you get a boat, so it helps to meet a few. 

As said elsewhere, you will get invites to look around boats, and possibly without having to ask. 

Don’t be afraid to ask basic questions, even if it’s just to reafirm what you already think you know. 

Simple questions: where’s your water tank? What sort of cooker you got? What’s your battery set up? ( no don’t ask that yet, that really turns to dull conversation)  How do you get on with winter? Just talk and talk and it leads to great conversation and everyone has the best boat and will bore the bits of you. You’ll have to make excuses to leave. 

 

 

 

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Alan de Enfield

Thank you that is valuable advice, succinct, and noted.

Tony Brooks

Re: A certain distance: I will look into that!

Re: Charging: that explains a lot, and also identifies another question I had about why boats sit moored with their engines running!

And I will read Wotevers “Battery Charging Primer” next time I get a minute.

Graham Davis

Noted thank you, and sorry about the font I tend to write things in a word processor then cut and paste as my spelling is atrocious!

Mike the Boilerman

Bloody earthquakes! Always cocking things up. But seriously petrol was just my first thought, a silent generator was what I was after it could run on anything for all I care.

blackrose

In no way did I think any one was being negative! It is the difficulties I need to know about, not the benefits. And I will take time to explore the discussions on the site more thoroughly, but I had to start somewhere.

Thank you all for your time and advice,

Cleggy.

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You can get a truly silent generator which runs on methanol, the prices are eye-watering though. It uses fuel cell technology instead of an IC engine. And, you can buy methanol from various specialist outlets, so its not impossible to obtain etc. That type of technology cannot use petrol because it isn't really "pure", it contains a number of other things in addition to the straight fuel, which interferes with the process within a fuel cell.

 

I suspect its a case of....if you need to ask how much, you can't afford it.

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3 minutes ago, Cleggy said:

Noted Paul, has anyone put a little steam engine on the top of the wood burner? that would turn an alternator and you would get a two for one in the winter.

You could put an electric fan powered by a peltier chip on top of your stove...

Edited by David Mack
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44 minutes ago, Cleggy said:

Noted Paul, has anyone put a little steam engine on the top of the wood burner? that would turn an alternator and you would get a two for one in the winter.

 

41 minutes ago, David Mack said:

You could put an electric fan powered by a peltier chip on top of your stove...

 

Or a Stirling engine, they work off any external heat source.

 

The company I used to work for put eight in two Waitrose supermarkets. 200kw of heat (to provide heating, domestic hot water and the stores refrigeration needs (via absorbtion or adsorption chillers) and 35kw of electricity per engine. Trouble is they were sooo unreliable the company supplying them went bust from the warranty claims forcing the company that I worked for to go into voluntary liquidation to avoid having to pay Waitrose's energy bills for the next 15 years. 

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1 hour ago, Cleggy said:

Mike the Boilerman

Bloody earthquakes! Always cocking things up. But seriously petrol was just my first thought, a silent generator was what I was after it could run on anything for all I care.

 

As Matty points out, there is no such thing as a silent genny. Even the most heavily silenced still send a deep low rumble through the water which can plainly be heard inside neighbouring boats. 

 

Oops forgot to say, Whispergens are different. They do not use an ICE. The occasional whispergen pops up on ebay if you run a permanent search. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Cleggy said:

Re: A certain distance: I will look into that!

There are dozens of threads on here that cover this. CaRT’s own advice is here (but note that if you only cover their stated minimum of 20 miles you are sailing awfully close to the wind and may not satisfy them):

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/enjoy-the-waterways/boating/buy-your-boat-licence/continuous-cruising

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On 04/08/2019 at 12:51, Cleggy said:

Blimey what a response!

 

I am going to reply to everyone that has given me info so far in one go, so here it is.

 

Mike the Boilerman:

I can well understand that time wise! Its the basics I need. I am a practical person so I’m more than happy to get my hands dirty. I was more interested in space onboard and moorings I’m fairly sure mechanically I can handle a boat ( I am a BSAC Diver so have experience of the water, just more tidal!)

 

catweasel:

I have been up and down the canal path a couple of times and so far I am pleased to say everyone I have met (boat wise) has been approachable and friendly but asking to step on board and have a look around is basically a little cheeky even for me! I appreciate the winter months will be harder but I have a log burner in my (or formerly my) Victorian terrace and would like one onboard although I realise that staying warm indoors is probably the least of the problems.

 

LadyG:

Thank you and an interesting point, not as cheap as it would at first seem (nothing is!) I have a place at London Metropolitan University with campuses in Aldwitch and the Holloway road also children in Enfield I was thinking I could move up and down the Lee term time, and take some cruises during breaks, the Lee would be my priority as I wish to remain close to the children (wife kept them after the divorce along with the house!) But I am happy to keep on the move, I have a bike and am happy to cover distance on it.

 

Tony Brooks:

Hmmm, power that is an issue! If I’m on the move batteries will presumably be charged via an alternator from the engine. Solar is something I would wish to include in my inventory but as you state it’s not a reliable source of energy in the UK. You state “The recharging is easy in you have a shoreline hookup but not so easy when cruising” why? Surely a diesel motor should charge batteries easily enough? No? You state “When new to boating many people ruin their batteries within months until they grasp just how much recharging is needed” how so?

 

Blackrose:

There are always those that don’t want to be approached. Discretion is different in everybody's nature and everyone has to be approached differently. And some, just as you say, not intruded upon.

 

Rumsky:

Ah, what can you do! The world was always better for older grumpier people, the beer tasted better the cloth was better woven etc. etc. I accept and acknowledge not everyone I meet will be a happy smiley person. Happens everywhere else so I see no difference on the water if not worse.

 

mrsmelly

Your points on the internal size of a boat with regard its interior size are WELL noted thank you, there is only me but I do need some space.

 

Blackrose:

Yes that is a legitimate point I am a valid and legitimate buyer and approaching a brokerage is something I will do but before I did that, I just wanted a more general picture. Salesmen are salesmen the world over and if I don’t have some idea of what I am looking for I will end up with god knows what! My father lives up north and it was my intention to visit “The Calder and Hebble” during university holidays this states max length 57’ but the interior space is important to me. I need a bed, A kitchen and and a shower and dunny (that is another topic alone) the rest can be empty apart from my desk and a wood burner as far as I’m concerned.

 

Tony Brooks:

A certain distance”? Vague at best can you clarify? I will look at both “CaRT and here” thank you. Also please I would like to hear more on this re: acceptable distances etc.

 

reg:

Thank you, positivity! That what I need.

 

And let it be noted I am now aware, half an hour is not enough! if you can make tea I will bring home made scones, jam and clotted cream.

 

Many thanks all for your time and input D.C.

Hi Cleggy

We are on the Calder and Hebble at Wakefield on a 57ft NB, there are two of us and we find we have ample room, we had an extended well deck at 4ft 6" which has a cratch cover, plenty of room for my bike, a washing machine inners fire pit, cooler box and some gardening tools, ours in a Semi Trad and the two lockers on the stern house the gas bottles and jerry cans and other bits. We are newbies too and bought ours as a lined sailaway additions boat so we are still doing the interior, only a few bits left to do, Internally we have a approx 14ft lounge, 8ft6 Galley, 6ft6 bathroom and about 10ft bedroom. I would say that 60ft would be the maximum on our stretch and 57ft for the 3 locks at Salterhebble.

Good Luck

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On 04/08/2019 at 07:18, Tony Brooks said:

All good advice but two points in which I differ.

 

1. £2000 for mooring, I very much doubt that around London, specially if it is a proper residential mooring rather than a leisure mooring and keep your head down. You may have to add another zero in London.

You're not wrong at all. The couple I bought my boat from in 2017 had a residential (towpath) mooring in Hackney that was over 800 quid a month. I believe you could possibly pick up a mooring at somewhere like Springfield Marina for less than 5k but probably not much less. That's if any moorings are available.

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19 minutes ago, NB Caelmiri said:

You're not wrong at all. The couple I bought my boat from in 2017 had a residential (towpath) mooring in Hackney that was over 800 quid a month. I believe you could possibly pick up a mooring at somewhere like Springfield Marina for less than 5k but probably not much less. That's if any moorings are available.

The C&RT ones that go to auction generally fetch £12k - £15k pa. But depends on location (less desirable areas are a bit cheaper).

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On 05/08/2019 at 15:56, Dav and Pen said:

Use a gas fridge it will save a lot of electricity over the course of a year.

But you'll use a lot of gas over the course of a year! I had a gas fridge in boat before my current boat. To be fair, I think the gas fridge was both inefficient and a bit broken because I'd go through gas cylinders like they were going out of fashion.

 

Just ordered a new Inlander LEC 12v fridge (https://www.inlanderlowvoltage.com/product/12v-lec-55cm-silver-under-counter-fridge--13) as the fridge in my boat is past its best so hoping I'll get a few years out of this new one at least. I've found generating electricity not that much of a problem if you move around a lot and have plenty of solar panels.

 

At the moment I'm not running the engine at all other than to move every couple of weeks. But not sure I'd have a gas fridge again based on past experience. I'm sure other people have had wonderful experiences with them, just not me.

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On 04/08/2019 at 13:36, Cleggy said:

Hmmm, Tony, Lets say I installed LED lighting, I would of course need a computer as I will be studying (I have never had to worry about batteries for laptops but will now have to consider it) I am not a TV person so we can knock that out of the equation but I will need a fridge, Could I not have a silent petrol generator to either fulfil my power needs or charge batteries outside of the 08:00 - 20:00 hours or is this just uneconomical?

 

DC.

But will you need a fridge? just buy 500ml of milk every day and shop daily, easy enough if in London. Have a bag of bagels , eggs, bacon lardons and that should give you breakfast during the week. Pop into a super market on the way home and buy  short dated cut price chilled food, eat for your dinner, cuts out decisions.

Obviously baked beans and pot noodles are standard student staples.

 

You might be better to "base yourself" in the Library, make sure you use their electricity for most of your gadgets.  

My laptop battery seems to be very short lived, but if I had two and charged them up every day they might be OK.

I have a battery bank thingy, which also starts the engine if required, but it also has USB outlets. Watch out for the voltage!

 

Edited by LadyG
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15 minutes ago, LadyG said:

But will you need a fridge? just buy 500ml of milk every day and shop daily, easy enough if in London. Have a bag of bagels , eggs, bacon lardons and that should give you breakfast during the week. Pop into a super market on the way home and buy  short dated cut price chilled food, eat for your dinner, cuts out decisions.

Obviously baked beans and pot noodles are standard student staples.

Nobody "needs" a fridge but......... after a few weeks of doing what you suggest, he will "want" a fridge.

 

Cleggy..... I havent read all of this thread, but i think it's safe to assume you will, at some point early on, have a fridge.

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