Changing anti freeze

[Malcolm48]

Peeps.

I am after some guidance re changing anti-freeze in Isuzu 33 engine

At the moment the water is a dingy brown so unable to state colour of existing protection be it red, green or blue, I doubt if it has been changed for years.

I have searched previous questions on forum re suggested methods of draining system, but am still a tad confused ( I know, must be a age  thing) on a couple of points.

If I drain the skin tank via removing the bottom hose presumably the calorifier will also be drained, will the calorifier require bleeding on refilling, if this is the case does it have this facility?

Would you recommend flushing system before adding any inhibitor and new anti-freeze or will this cause more problems than cure.

Is there a bleed point on the skin tank?

What colour anti freeze do you recommend?

Thankyou in anticipation .

Malc

 

[Chewbacka]

14 minutes ago, Malcolm48 said:

Peeps.

I am after some guidance re changing anti-freeze in Isuzu 33 engine

At the moment the water is a dingy brown so unable to state colour of existing protection be it red, green or blue, I doubt if it has been changed for years.

I have searched previous questions on forum re suggested methods of draining system, but am still a tad confused ( I know, must be a age  thing) on a couple of points.

 

If I drain the skin tank via removing the bottom hose presumably the calorifier will also be drained,

probably, but depends on height differences and pipe runs.  Example if both pipes to the calorifier loop up, the water from the calorifier can’t drain uphill.

 

will the calorifier require bleeding on refilling,

As you say you need to get the air out, again depends on the pipe layout if it will self bleed.

 

if this is the case does it have this facility?  

Depends on the person that fitted it.  Mine does, but that was me fitting the pipes.

 

Would you recommend flushing system before adding any inhibitor and new anti-freeze or will this cause more problems than cure.

If it is full of crud, it’s better out.

 

Is there a bleed point on the skin tank?

Depends on who fitted it, mine has a cap that can be undone to release the air.

 

What colour anti freeze do you recommend?

I would use a long life universal antifreeze.  Others with an Isuzu engine should be able to advise of any compatibly issues.

See bold above.  With cars, all Ford escorts are the same, but with boats they are usually built as ‘one off’ even more so if it was a  sailaway diy fit out.

Quote

Thankyou in anticipation .

Malc

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Chewbacka

[Wanderer Vagabond]

27 minutes ago, Malcolm48 said:

Peeps.

I am after some guidance re changing anti-freeze in Isuzu 33 engine

At the moment the water is a dingy brown so unable to state colour of existing protection be it red, green or blue, I doubt if it has been changed for years.

I have searched previous questions on forum re suggested methods of draining system, but am still a tad confused ( I know, must be a age  thing) on a couple of points.

If I drain the skin tank via removing the bottom hose presumably the calorifier will also be drained, will the calorifier require bleeding on refilling, if this is the case does it have this facility?

Would you recommend flushing system before adding any inhibitor and new anti-freeze or will this cause more problems than cure.

Is there a bleed point on the skin tank?

What colour anti freeze do you recommend?

Thankyou in anticipation .

Malc

 

On a different engine (Lister LPW) I changed my antifreeze last Spring, it was certainly worthwhile since a year or two ago, going up the Ouse to York the engine got a bit warm when pushing into the start of the ebbing tide just before we got to Naburn. This year we flogged it across and back the Ribble against the tide and had no issue whatsover.

 

To change my antifreeze I took the pipe off above the water pump/thermostat housing and drained it out from there. The reason that I didn't do it on the skin tank was because there wasn't space below the pipe into the skin tank to catch the coolant coming out so it would have all ended out in the engine bilge.I then ran fresh water through the system until it was coming out as near clean as could be expected. There will be bleed screws on the system (so there will be one of the skin tank) at relevant points (otherwise no-one would have been able to fill your system properly in the first place) and on mine the calorifier didn't need any bleeding since the header tank was obviously higher than the calorifier and the pipework within the calorifier is just part of the engine cooling system. If there is any danger of the calorifier air-locking then someone will have fitted a bleed screw somewhere on it.

 

As far as the colour of antifreeze to use? your guess is as good as mine

[Guest]

It is often said that distilled water should be used to mix with the coolant and not tap water. (Limescale IIRC)

Edited August 3, 2019 by Guest

[cuthound]

Personally I would flush it as you don't know what type was previously in it, and it eliminates potential problems.

 

I changed mine to a 50% mix of Ford Super Plus Premium antifreeze because it lasts for 10 years and changing it is a pain in the ar**.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ford-Super-Plus-Premium-Anti-Freeze-1336808-x/dp/B00THEQERS

[blackrose]

I changed mine on an izusu 55 recently. The drain plug on my engine is on the port side but I'm not sure where it is on the izusu 33. 

 

Drain it all out of the engine, skin tank, and the calorifier loop. Just disconnect one of the pipes to or from the calorifier from the engine and flush everything through with a hose. The only thing that needed bleeding in my system were the skin tanks.

 

Make sure you refill with enough new antifreeze to cover the water pump. On my Isuzu it looks like you have antifreeze in the bottom of the reservoir so you think the engine is full, but in fact it's just half a cm in the bottom of the reservoir and the rest of the system can be half empty.

 

A wet vac is good to have on hand to suck up all the old antifreeze from the engine room floor.

 

I bought my new red antifreeze premixed from eBay because that seemed to be all that was available, but if I did need to mix it I wouldn't bother with distilled water. I've never put distilled water in any car or water cooled motorbike engine.

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F372691188990

 

The stuff I used has a 5 year lifespan but I'm not going to change it after 5 years. I'm just going to add corrosion inhibitor as the antifreeze will last for much longer and it's the reduction in the corrosion inhibitor property that's the life limiting factor.

 

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/ind/corrosion-protection/ankorsol-anti-corrosion-fluid-clear.html

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by blackrose

[frangar]

7 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

 

The stuff I used has a 5 year lifespan but I'm not going to change it after 5 years. I'm just going to add corrosion inhibitor as the antifreeze will last for much longer and it's the reduction in the corrosion inhibitor property that's the life limiting factor.

 

https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/ind/corrosion-protection/ankorsol-anti-corrosion-fluid-clear.html

 

I asked Morris about adding that product to their own anti freeze mix that I have in my boat. The technical dept said they have never tested this scenario and couldn’t say for certain that it would continue to provide anti corrosion properties and their recommendation was to change the antifreeze. Make of that what you will. 

[blackrose]

13 minutes ago, frangar said:

I asked Morris about adding that product to their own anti freeze mix that I have in my boat. The technical dept said they have never tested this scenario and couldn’t say for certain that it would continue to provide anti corrosion properties and their recommendation was to change the antifreeze. Make of that what you will. 

 

The bottle I have states that it's suitable for all water based cooling and heating systems. If it's not going to provide anticorrosion properties then what's it for exactly?

 

Edit: From what you've said I can only infer that Morris would rather you buy their antifreeze in large quantities than a small amount of Ankorsol.

Edited August 3, 2019 by blackrose

[frangar]

19 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

The bottle I have states that it's suitable for all water based cooling and heating systems. If it's not going to provide anticorrosion properties then what's it for exactly?

 

Edit: From what you've said I can only infer that Morris would rather you buy their antifreeze in large quantities than a small amount of Ankorsol.

It’s for using in climates where you don’t need antifreeze but still need anti corrosion. 

 

There was some some talk on here when it was last discussed that spent corrosion inhibitors could indeed become corrosive. 

 

Please don’t shoot the messenger....I’m just informing you what Morris tech dept said to me. Believe me it would make my life much easier & cheaper if I could use it with the knowledge it would work! I have a huge skin tank and a vintage engine....you don’t want to know how much antifreeze I need!  

 

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, frangar said:

It’s for using in climates where you don’t need antifreeze but still need anti corrosion. 

 

There was some some talk on here when it was last discussed that spent corrosion inhibitors could indeed become corrosive. 

 

Please don’t shoot the messenger....I’m just informing you what Morris tech dept said to me. Believe me it would make my life much easier & cheaper if I could use it with the knowledge it would work! I have a huge skin tank and a vintage engine....you don’t want to know how much antifreeze I need!  

 

 

I'm not shooting anyone, so no need to take offence. You've posted some information and I'm simply responding.

 

I wonder why Morris (and others) market these products here if they're not intended for our climate? I don't think corrosion inhibitors would become corrosive, they would just gradually lose their properties.

[frangar]

Just now, blackrose said:

 

I'm not shooting anyone, so no need to take offence. You've posted some information and I'm simply responding.

 

I wonder why Morris (and others) market these products here if they're not intended for our climate? I don't think corrosion inhibitors would become corrosive, they would just gradually lose their properties.

My discussion with Morris included them saying they weren’t sure how it would react with antifreeze...tbh I wasn’t prepared to do their R & D on my engine so I just change antifreeze...I am looking into a long life antifreeze which is ok with copper & brass...not all the “long life” ones are apparently 

[blackrose]

N

16 minutes ago, frangar said:

My discussion with Morris included them saying they weren’t sure how it would react with antifreeze...tbh I wasn’t prepared to do their R & D on my engine so I just change antifreeze...I am looking into a long life antifreeze which is ok with copper & brass...not all the “long life” ones are apparently 

 

The amount of Ankorsol you need to add is comparatively tiny. There's nothing on the bottle indicating any reaction with antifreeze, so if they really thought it was an issue I'm sure they would have had to give some sort of warning since most automotive cooling systems and many heating systems do contain antifreeze. Surely it must have crossed their minds even before the conversation you had with them? I'm sure that conversation was well intentioned on their part, but I'm also sure it's a case of individuals covering their backsides.

Edited August 3, 2019 by blackrose

[blackrose]

Hang on, I've just checked the bottle.

 

You (and Morris) must be talking about a different product?

 

 

[frangar]

5 minutes ago, blackrose said:

N

 

The amount of Ankorsol you need to add is comparatively tiny. There's nothing on the bottle indicating any reaction with antifreeze, so if they really thought it was an issue I'm sure they would have had to give some sort of warning since most automotive cooling systems and many heating systems do contain antifreeze. Surely it must have crossed their minds even before the conversation you had with them? I'm sure that conversation was well intentioned on their part, but I'm also sure it's a case of individuals covering their backsides.

Email them and see what answer you get! It was a few years ago when I asked so they might have tested it now or had a change of personnel. They are quite an approachable company I’ve found. 

[blackrose]

Just now, frangar said:

Email them and see what answer you get! It was a few years ago when I asked so they might have tested it now or had a change of personnel. They are quite an approachable company I’ve found. 

No need. See above.

[frangar]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Hang on, I've just checked the bottle.

 

You (and Morris) must be talking about a different product?

 

 

Nope. That was what we were discussing 

 

edited to add

 

interesting!! 

 I will send an email and see if they are happy for it to be used as a anticorrosion top up! 

Edited August 3, 2019 by frangar

[blackrose]

6 minutes ago, frangar said:

Nope. That was what we were discussing 

 

edited to add

 

interesting!! 

 I will send an email and see if they are happy for it to be used as a anticorrosion top up! 

 

Well, as it's compatible with antifreeze I can't see why it wouldn't be? But it would be interesting to hear what they say and why they said it wasn't last time you asked them.

Edited August 3, 2019 by blackrose

[frangar]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

Well, as it's compatible with antifreeze I can't see why it wouldn't be?

Nor can I but I don’t fancy having a core plug fail on the tidal Trent due to saving a few (many) quid on antifreeze!! I’ll report back if/when I get a reply. 

[blackrose]

Just now, frangar said:

Nor can I but I don’t fancy having a core plug fail on the tidal Trent due to saving a few (many) quid on antifreeze!! I’ll report back if/when I get a reply. 

Ok cheers

[Malcolm48]

Thankyou for all your input.

Certainly given me food for thought.

One of which: is it a feasible exercise to remove top hose either from skin or header tank and syphon a few litres out?

I suppose it all depends on how good a job I want to achieve.

Thanks

Malcolm