Scouting & the Canals - What could go wrong?

[midsmatt]

A plan has been hatched regarding getting the kids out of the house, away from tents, off the beaten track and onto the water! There are a fair few operations across the country supporting such ideas but I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of Midlands based owners who would be up to entertaining the inevitable chaos that is our Scout Group!

This would be something for either very late 2019 or next year. I'd like to spend a day on the water maybe overnight for our Beavers and our Cubs for several days. A few of the Leaders in our Group have experience on the water but I feel this might best be a supported venture.

We might consider doing a volunteer day or the like which would help with badge work. We've already opened up communications (and a tour) with the LHCRT for future possibilities but would be interested in any opportunity for the kids to stay away from the internet!

Any suggestions welcome.

[ditchcrawler]

The Scouting organisation have narrowboats or at least some groups do. Some use the London youth Boats from Braunston

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

The Scouting organisation have narrowboats or at least some groups do. Some use the London youth Boats from Braunston

Just google, I am short of data but here is one http://www.jubileeventure.org.uk/

[koukouvagia]

Might be worth contacting Tim Carter

 http://inlandnavigators.co.uk/canal-camping.html

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, midsmatt said:

A plan has been hatched regarding getting the kids out of the house, away from tents, off the beaten track and onto the water! There are a fair few operations across the country supporting such ideas but I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of Midlands based owners who would be up to entertaining the inevitable chaos that is our Scout Group!

This would be something for either very late 2019 or next year. I'd like to spend a day on the water maybe overnight for our Beavers and our Cubs for several days. A few of the Leaders in our Group have experience on the water but I feel this might best be a supported venture.

We might consider doing a volunteer day or the like which would help with badge work. We've already opened up communications (and a tour) with the LHCRT for future possibilities but would be interested in any opportunity for the kids to stay away from the internet!

Any suggestions welcome.

 

Not 100% relevant but a similar situation.

 

Some years ago we had a few acres of 'waste ground' (it was actually an old coal mine waste tip, dating back to the 17 & 1800's) covered with trees and with all sorts of tracks and obstacles I had built as a horse 'cross country' event course.

 

I offered the use of it to the Local Army cadets for use as an area for go-karting / Quad biking, camping, survival training, building dens, whatever but was very politely turned down, the reasons being :

 

We were not insured to let kids run wild building fires, chopping down trees etc.

The cadet Force could not insure what was not theirs.

The Cadets could not use the grounds until they had been inspected and approved by the relevant department within the MOD - that could take in excess of 2 years to achieve.

 

I remember my times as a Cub, a Scout, a Venture Scout and as a leader, sleeping rough and having a proper outdoor life - but - things change.

[mrsmelly]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not 100% relevant but a similar situation.

 

Some years ago we had a few acres of 'waste ground' (it was actually an old coal mine waste tip, dating back to the 17 & 1800's) covered with trees and with all sorts of tracks and obstacles I had built as a horse 'cross country' event course.

 

I offered the use of it to the Local Army cadets for use as an area for go-karting / Quad biking, camping, survival training, building dens, whatever but was very politely turned down, the reasons being :

 

We were not insured to let kids run wild building fires, chopping down trees etc.

The cadet Force could not insure what was not theirs.

The Cadets could not use the grounds until they had been inspected and approved by the relevant department within the MOD - that could take in excess of 2 years to achieve.

 

I remember my times as a Cub, a Scout, a Venture Scout and as a leader, sleeping rough and having a proper outdoor life - but - things change.

I am not suprised. This is called progress.

[midsmatt]

17 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

Might be worth contacting Tim Carter

 http://inlandnavigators.co.uk/canal-camping.html

 

That looks to be a very similar gig to what I did as a Young Scout many, many moons ago. My memories are vague but it could even be the same boat!

 

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not 100% relevant but a similar situation.

 

I remember my times as a Cub, a Scout, a Venture Scout and as a leader, sleeping rough and having a proper outdoor life - but - things change.

 

I agree things are more difficult now but there are ways and means of doing almost anything with the correct risk assessment and indeed the Scouts have a Team who are dedicated to this task. Being that we're a lot more community based than the MOD Cadets (I was also one of these as a lad) it's often easier for us to work the ribs on the rules. As long as the kids are deemed safe and not left alone we can do quite a lot. Our Scouts are doing more but with a bigger nod to safety. My kids have been learning how to be safe with fire etc. since they were 4 years old. It's the parents not the kids that need to put the work in. If they get seriously injured you should be at least able to say that it was just bad luck not bad judgement or training.

[midsmatt]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

The Scouting organisation have narrowboats or at least some groups do. Some use the London youth Boats from Braunston

Just google, I am short of data but here is one http://www.jubileeventure.org.uk/

I'm terrible with Google. My wife tells me it's because my brains wired wrong and slightly left of normal. Thank you for the link.

[Tumshie]

1 hour ago, midsmatt said:

I wondered if anyone had any knowledge of Midlands based owners who would be up to entertaining the inevitable chaos that is our Scout Group!

When you say owners - owners of what? Boats? Kayaks? Ground? Outdoor Centres? Just asking for the sake of clarity. 

 

[midsmatt]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

When you say owners - owners of what? Boats? Kayaks? Ground? Outdoor Centres? Just asking for the sake of clarity. 

 

Specifically Narrowboat owners to get them out on the water. Beyond that anything that could be entertaining and go towards badge work and experience based learning. Community based efforts (give them some gloves and point them at hard work that isn't dangerous and they'd never go near at home for example) are a great option but tend to need a lot of that Risk Assessment stuff that was mentioned earlier.

 

[Tony Brooks]

I suppose it depends upon how many would be coming. I think the London Narrowboat Project have two boats and I think they also have qualified skippers so that might obviate the need for whatever qualification (Charge Certificate in my day) the scout association may otherwise require the leader(s) to posses.

[Tumshie]

40 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I am not suprised. This is called progress.

I'm based in Scotland at the moment and up here we have a thing that's referred to as Disclosure Scotland, anybody wanting to work with kids and take them out on their boat would be expected to apply for this basic disclosure, I think that's progress. It doesn't weed out all the problems but it hacks out the obvious ones. Any child that is kept safe is progress worth having. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Tumshie
Cos I can't speal

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

I'm based in Scotland at the moment and up here we have a thing that's referred to as Disclosure Scotland, anybody wanting to work with kids and take them out on their boat would be expected to apply for this basic disclosure, I think that's progress. It doesn't weed out all the problems but it hacks out the obvious ones. Any child that is kept safe is progress worth having. 

Being Scotland based might create a problem because I suspect the documents relating to English vulnerable people protection may not be acceptable over the border and vis-a-versa.Whilst an excellent idea in theory can be horribly expensive for both voluntary and government organisations. Not saying such things are a bad idea, more that they seem very expensive.

[dave moore]

The historic pair Atlas and Malus, based at Hawne Bain, Halesowen, are used by groups of youngsters undertaking Duke of Edinburgh activities and have qualified leaders aboard. Coombeswood Canal Trust may have more information. Just a thought......

[Tumshie]

43 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Being Scotland based might create a problem because I suspect the documents relating to English vulnerable people protection may not be acceptable over the border and vis-a-versa.

I obviously referred to the Scottish name because I don't know what the Basic Disclosure is commonly referred to in England not to mention I was making a generalisation about the progression of child safety not trying to suggest I understand the intricacies of it nation wide. 

 

43 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

more that they seem very expensive.

I think £25 is an incredibly small price to pay to keep a pedophile from sneaking into children's lives, I appreciate that those £25 add up but what would any parent give or do to keep their child safe. 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Tumshie
spelling

[zenataomm]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not 100% relevant but a similar situation.

 

Some years ago we had a few acres of 'waste ground' ...

I'm amazed, I'd have thought everything you said there Alan is totally relevant.

52 minutes ago, midsmatt said:

Specifically Narrowboat owners …...

 

We are often asked on here about ...

* I want to hire out my boat

* I want hire out someone's boat

* I'm going to Airbnb my boat

* Looking for a boat owner willing to take a bunch of  XYZ for a trip along

 

I don't see this request as any different.

Due to the framework of regulations/legislations surrounding Inland Waterways it's nothing like volunteering to take an OAP down to Sainsbury's.  Nor is it like renting out your caravan at the seaside or lending your tent.

So long as you realise there are ...

-DBS enhanced clearances

-DOT rules concerning maximum numbers allowed on a boat

-Enhanced Boat Safety Certificates required

-Different insurances needed

-Qualified/Responsible adults to be in charge

-Boat license implications

… then you will comprehend why the replies above are steering you towards existing organisations geared up to do this kind of thing.

 

I mention this because your post has a flavour about it that hints you may be looking for volunteer boat owners.

If you're not then it's still worth mentioning in case anyone else reading your post thinks to themselves " Wow, great idea, I'll ask locally for our bunch"

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

I'm amazed, I'd have thought everything you said there Alan is totally relevant.

Thank you - but Scouts operate under different guidelines (I used to be a Venture Scout Leader), and I was working on the fact that the requirements for riding quads up and down 'mountains' would be different to 'sitting on a boat'

I think the principles of modern H&S, safety audits, risk assessments, insurance etc are probably similar / relevant.

[cuthound]

Apart from anything else, he would need to warn his scouts of the potential addiction to canals.

 

I went on a venture scout organised camping boat trip back in 1973 and became addicted.

 

Over the years it had cost me a small fortune and resulted in me becoming a canalcoholic. ?

[MtB]

 

An aquaholic....

 

 

[Tumshie]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Thank you - but Scouts operate under different guidelines (I used to be a Venture Scout Leader), and I was working on the fact that the requirements for riding quads up and down 'mountains' would be different to 'sitting on a boat'

I think the principles of modern H&S, safety audits, risk assessments, insurance etc are probably similar / relevant.

Delete head trauma and insert drowning - I'd also say pretty relevant. 

[midsmatt]

46 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

 

We are often asked on here about ...

 

I mention this because your post has a flavour about it that hints you may be looking for volunteer boat owners.

If you're not then it's still worth mentioning in case anyone else reading your post thinks to themselves " Wow, great idea, I'll ask locally for our bunch"

 

Interesting I wasn't able to bring up anything recently regarding this sort of thing with the search. Again most likely my slightly odd search issue brain malformation I'm sure.

Just to be clear. No this cannot be anything less than a fully above board gig. It's one thing to hand a Scout a broom, it's another to put them on a Narrow boat with that broom. Scouts have their own insurance (I've somewhat unnervingly been repeatedly told what I'm worth dead by a number of people) but this only goes so far to prevent stupidity from putting a dent in the local gene pool.

That said Scouts have no problem with Volunteers. Leaders go through quite a bit of training to remind us how much they in fact like them. That training is ongoing just in case they start to forget...

[Richard T]

I'm the narrowboating advisor for Leicestershire SCouts. Warwickshire scouts have a boat based at Hillmorton http://www.centenarynarrowboat.btck.co.uk/

Other boats available that I know of are London Narrowboat Project http://www.lnbp.co.uk/

Nottingham City Council have two narrowboats - Megan and Tinkers Leen - which are avaialble for youth groups.

Commercially most have been mentioned above but Union Canal Carriers have a couple of 12 berth boats which are suitable. There is a camping boat based in Birmingham but I've forgotten its name - it is an Admiral class boat. William is available http://www.inlandnavigators.co.uk/narrowboat-william.html

If you have any disabled Scouts there are several boats which are suitable - the Peter Le Marchant Trust has two a narrowboat and a wide beam.

The Guide Association have two boats that I know of Tuptonia is based on the N Stratford and there is a second one on the eastern K&A.

If you have a skippered boat the skipper and any crew will need to be qualified - RYA Inland helmsman or Certificate in Community Boat Management. They will also need to have the relevant DBS.

If you are going to skipper the boat yourself you will require an Adventurous Activity Permit for Narrowboating. Further information on this can be found on the Scout web page https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/3427/narrow-boating?cat=419,26,415

If you require further information please send me a private message and I will do my best to help

[Tumshie]

@midsmatt have you tried the Green Gym, while not specific to the canals some areas do work on the canal side. They are a great bunch of people and do good things, they often have interesting projects and are a brilliant way to get young people active and learning new skills. 

 

https://www.tcv.org.uk/midlands

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

Contact these people for some advice, they hire 2 or 3 boats every year and take a whole load of youngsters out so they may be able to give you some help http://www.thebhy.co.uk/

[roland elsdon]

Sad as it is no sane adult would take the risk of having anything to do with working with other peoples children nowadays,  unless there was a good adult protection system in place.

 

having had to assist in representing a member of staff, over a malicious allegation made by a ‘child’  I keep as far away from them as possible.

The fact all our staff had enhanced child protection screening and certification did not appear to matter a whit when the allegation was made.

 

its a sad reflection  to feel you have to protect from those you could educate aid and enable.

[midsmatt]

1 hour ago, Richard T said:

I'm the narrowboating advisor for Leicestershire SCouts.

If you require further information please send me a private message and I will do my best to help

Thank you. I can assure you that I will indeed be contacting you once I wrap my head around everything! At the moment I'm doing the initial ground work to test the plausibility factor given the Groups various commitments whilst trying to ensure the Leaders don't end up committed.

I should have known the Scouts would have a PDF for Narrowboating they seem to have one for everything else! Whilst we don't have any Scouts that require physical assistance we do have some with behavioural concerns. That in itself is a head scratcher as I just think of certain children and working locks and I break out in a cold sweat.

I've previously tried to make contact with one of the above organisations you mention but I can't for the life of me remember which. I'd search through my emails but I think we're all starting to guess how that might well work out!