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Whaley Bridge Evacuated


furnessvale

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2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

They reported in this morning’s news that they already have problems with the discharge and are looking for alternative routes for the pumped water to go. 

Pity they can't get it to the Braunston and/or Leicester summitpounds, then maybe they could drop the "water saving" measures at themajor flights hereabouts!

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Total speculation but looking at the current pictures and also the video, which shows the water cascading over the concrete side wall which runs down the side of the spill way. The pictures show this wall has been undermined. Could this have been caused by the flow over the wall that then eroded back under the concrete slabs. As I said speculation until full investigation, but no inspections would have picked this potential design flaw. Possibly compounded, as previously stated,  as the overflow wasn't even causing the overtopping of the side wall???

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Someone who lives in WB  has told me the following

The reason this has happened is neglect since BW was abolished by the govt and the Canal and River Trust took over without sufficient funding.

There used to be a BW employee living in a tied house right next to the dam;  he managed the reservoir on a daily basis, controlling the water levels with the side sluices and the gates at the bottom, so there was enough capacity to take extra in when necessary, without it getting to the point of flowing over the spillway which is only meant to happen as a 'last resort'.  This employee was made redundant when BW was abolished, and the house was sold.  Daily monitoring has thus been lacking for several years; visits and observations for brief periods a couple of times a week is no substitute  for daily active management of reservoir levels!  People in WB - some of whom knew the BW employee and had helped him in the past - have contacted the CRT over the years with concerns about  damage to the spillway when it was overflowing, but were basically told they were wrong. Now it is alarmingly clear that they were right.   

 

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10 minutes ago, LancaCanal said:

People in WB - some of whom knew the BW employee and had helped him in the past - have contacted the CRT over the years with concerns about  damage to the spillway when it was overflowing, but were basically told they were wrong. Now it is alarmingly clear that they were right.   

 

Image result for you can take a horse to water quote

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22 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

My friends just said boris is in whaley bridge to plug the leak. Things are looking up. 

‘dude look at that wall of water’

 

20 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

If Boris is in Whaley Bridge, many residents might actually be grateful they have been evacuated from it!

Aw!

You lot are being very mean to our Boris.

Give him a chance. He's trying to sort out leaving the Eu and he will sort out WB. Give him a few days.

:rolleyes:?

 

PhD (the bleeding obvious), BSc, MRSC, Muppet.

 

edit to add...credentials.....

Edited by Dr Bob
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2 hours ago, LancaCanal said:

Someone who lives in WB  has told me the following

The reason this has happened is neglect since BW was abolished by the govt and the Canal and River Trust took over without sufficient funding.

There used to be a BW employee living in a tied house right next to the dam;  he managed the reservoir on a daily basis, controlling the water levels with the side sluices and the gates at the bottom, so there was enough capacity to take extra in when necessary, without it getting to the point of flowing over the spillway which is only meant to happen as a 'last resort'.  This employee was made redundant when BW was abolished, and the house was sold.  Daily monitoring has thus been lacking for several years; visits and observations for brief periods a couple of times a week is no substitute  for daily active management of reservoir levels!  People in WB - some of whom knew the BW employee and had helped him in the past - have contacted the CRT over the years with concerns about  damage to the spillway when it was overflowing, but were basically told they were wrong. Now it is alarmingly clear that they were right.   

 

That sounds reasonable, but it seems unlikely that even such an experienced guy would have anticipated the inflow from such an unusual rainfall event.

It is likely that a dam would be designed for something well in excess of a '100 year event', but the severity of the rainfall was simply off the scale of expected and predictable events.   

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

Funny how everyone suddenly becomes a civil engineer in these cases?‍♂️

as an experienced and well qualified civil engineer, I have learnt one thing for sure :- local knowledge and common sense is just as valuable as qualifications.  ......   don't knock it, Phylis.

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2 hours ago, LancaCanal said:

Someone who lives in WB  has told me the following

The reason this has happened is neglect since BW was abolished by the govt and the Canal and River Trust took over without sufficient funding.

There used to be a BW employee living in a tied house right next to the dam;  he managed the reservoir on a daily basis, controlling the water levels with the side sluices and the gates at the bottom, so there was enough capacity to take extra in when necessary, without it getting to the point of flowing over the spillway which is only meant to happen as a 'last resort'.  This employee was made redundant when BW was abolished, and the house was sold.  Daily monitoring has thus been lacking for several years; visits and observations for brief periods a couple of times a week is no substitute  for daily active management of reservoir levels!  People in WB - some of whom knew the BW employee and had helped him in the past - have contacted the CRT over the years with concerns about  damage to the spillway when it was overflowing, but were basically told they were wrong. Now it is alarmingly clear that they were right.   

 

Can I suggest you read the rest of this thread to realise what a load of rubbish you have written.

 

28 minutes ago, PaulD said:

The work in 2010 was to replace the valves and pipes of the drawdown system so the reservoir could be emptied in an emergency. So why all the pumps?

Because of the severe risk of dangerous flooding and damage to structures in the valley below the dam due to the already overflowing/flooded rivers in releasing water in an uncontrolled manner. 

Edited by Graham Davis
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2 hours ago, LancaCanal said:

People in WB - some of whom knew the BW employee and had helped him in the past - have contacted the CRT over the years with concerns about  damage to the spillway when it was overflowing, but were basically told they were wrong. Now it is alarmingly clear that they were right.   

 

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Can I suggest you read the rest of this thread to realise what a load of rubbish you have written.

Exactly the same thing happened with the breach at Middlewich - locals had been telling C&RT for several years that there was a leak, after being told they were talking rubbish, their concerns were vindicated in April 2018

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2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Funny how everyone suddenly becomes a civil engineer in these cases?‍♂️

Civil engineering is easy. You just need to learn the three rules:

 

  1. Concrete is hard.
  2. Steel is strong.
  3. Sh*t flows downhill.

Rule 1 definitely comes in to play here. The spillway protected the dam till it was compromised. Rule 3 as well and is the worry for everyone downhill of the dam. Only rule 2 has limited application here.

 

Jen ?

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52 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

That sounds reasonable, but it seems unlikely that even such an experienced guy would have anticipated the inflow from such an unusual rainfall event.

It is likely that a dam would be designed for something well in excess of a '100 year event', but the severity of the rainfall was simply off the scale of expected and predictable events.   

It's a shame that none of these so-called climate experts, with their expensive education and endless degrees, have ever mentioned over the last couple of years that we can expect much greater weather events and variation, or that we can expect hotter, wetter and stormier weather. I mean, if they had, someone would have done something, wouldn't they? 

Nope, it was, as you say, completely unexpected and unpredictable. 

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1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

That sounds reasonable, but it seems unlikely that even such an experienced guy would have anticipated the inflow from such an unusual rainfall event.

It is likely that a dam would be designed for something well in excess of a '100 year event', but the severity of the rainfall was simply off the scale of expected and predictable events.   

as an experienced and well qualified civil engineer, I have learnt one thing for sure :- local knowledge and common sense is just as valuable as qualifications.  ......   don't knock it, Phylis.

That's a fact. We had a breach some years back on the L&L at Parbold, and the local farmer had more idea than the Environmental Agency guys, who simply did not know the area. The old farmer was born and bred there and knew all of the culverts etc., and where the stop planks were hidden in the undergrowth. He soon had them under control! His quick thinking saved many fish and much flooding of local dwellings.
Same guy has since popped his clogs, so if it happens again we are screwed.

Edited by Guest
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47 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's a shame that none of these so-called climate experts, with their expensive education and endless degrees, have ever mentioned over the last couple of years that we can expect much greater weather events and variation, or that we can expect hotter, wetter and stormier weather. I mean, if they had, someone would have done something, wouldn't they? 

Nope, it was, as you say, completely unexpected and unpredictable. 

probably not - denial is statistically unlikely to be unmasked during the career duration of those 'someones' who are responsible for doing something, and, as long as that is the case, the merry-go-round can revolve unimpeded with everyone patting themselves on the back about how well they judged things and saved the country a fortune by not spending money on unnecessary maintenance and improvements.

 

I expect that 2019 will go down as the year when the concept of climate change was finally vindicated. 

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12 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

probably not - denial is statistically unlikely to be unmasked during the career duration of those 'someones' who are responsible for doing something, and, as long as that is the case, the merry-go-round can revolve unimpeded with everyone patting themselves on the back about how well they judged things and saved the country a fortune by not spending money on unnecessary maintenance and improvements.

 

I expect that 2019 will go down as the year when the concept of climate change was finally vindicated. 

Once again I have to agree.
The cause is still out to jury (IMHO,) but climate change is real. 
I kick myself frequently for not keeping the article, but I remember a guy many years ago (perhaps 30) stating what we could expect in years to come. He was dismissed by many as an attention seeking nutter. Turns out he was on the money.

Edited by Guest
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On 02/08/2019 at 23:07, Nightwatch said:

Does it effect your daily life or just my own? No need for that remark. Git!

My boat is well and truly on its way to being fix. How's the dam getting. And it hasn't cost anyone, but me, any money.

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12 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Because of the severe risk of dangerous flooding and damage to structures in the valley below the dam due to the already overflowing/flooded rivers in releasing water in an uncontrolled manner. 

The draw down vale discharges into exactly the same river as the pumps are now discharging.

 

Perhaps they are using the draw down valve and the pumps are additional.  In which case the reservoir should be empty by now as (Ithink) the specification of the valve was something like one third of reservoir capacity to be discharged in three days.

 

George

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13 hours ago, Graham Davis said:

Can I suggest you read the rest of this thread to realise what a load of rubbish you have written.

 

Because of the severe risk of dangerous flooding and damage to structures in the valley below the dam due to the already overflowing/flooded rivers in releasing water in an uncontrolled manner. 

Does it need to be uncontrolled?  If they are valves can't they be partly opened?  If there is a problem with the capacity of the rivers it doesn't matter if the water comes from pumps or drain down valves.

2 minutes ago, Theo said:

Does it need to be uncontrolled?  If they are valves can't they be partly opened?  If there is a problem with the capacity of the rivers it doesn't matter if the water comes from pumps or drain down valves.

Ah!  I see that the same point had been made by Graham.

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The residents are sadly facing disaster, whether or not the dam bursts.

If it does, they will lose their homes but at least most will be recompensed by their insurance.

If it does not burst, they may be even worse affected.  Their properties will now be virtually unsellable. Who is ever going to buy a home there with a known threat of instant destruction hanging over them? And future insurance will now be impossible.  So these properties will already be worthless and uninsurable!

It's a nightmare, whatever the immediate outcome.

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5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

2016

 

 

 

WhaleyBridgeWeeds.jpg

 

That angled wash wall really is most curious, given the blank space to the right of it. Does anyone know the reason for angling it? 

 

With the benefit of hindsight it would have been better to have the top of the overflow narrower to match the width at the bottom, assuming there is some reason for the bottom width being reduced. 

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Murflynn said:

May I suggest that the 1971 spillway design was fundamentally flawed? 

The spillway should be designed to take a shallow and evenly spread sheet of water which would have a relatively limited velocity and would never amount to much in the way of turbulence and undermining flow, and would not cause any wash-out, a bit like a shower of rain running across your patio slabs.  Tapering the spillway at one side concentrated a large flow adjacent to the vertical wall which was the straw that broke the camel's back.    I haven't seen the design of any overflow structure prior to 1971 or 1964, but if there was one I expect it would follow the same footprint.

Interesting, thank you. I wonder why the north side of the spillway tapers in like that, when the south side doesn’t?

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

That angled wash wall really is most curious, given the blank space to the right of it. Does anyone know the reason for angling it? 

 

1 minute ago, AndrewIC said:

Interesting, thank you. I wonder why the north side of the spillway tapers in like that, when the south side doesn’t?

 

Simply speculation - I wonder if it was to give the overflowing water some 'direction' to continue its way down into a watercourse ?

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Simply speculation - I wonder if it was to give the overflowing water some 'direction' to continue its way down into a watercourse ?

Exactly this.  The collecting spillway at the bottom runs virtually at right angles acroos the face of the spillway from right to left.  The whole thing was never designed for the quantity of water coming over the other day.

 

Perhaps the valves should have been opened sooner but that relies on a CRT man who knows the reservoirs intimately and he has gone.

 

George

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