Engine Bay

[robtheplod]

Hi All

 

Saw a nice boat today, which exceeded expectations inside - it's a Liverpool Boats one, but it is just what we're after.... Our only query is really in the engine bay which, whilst was tidy, was a little rusty! - see pic  The Stern Tube is lubricated by water, which I've not come across before - would this account for the water/rust in the bottom - is there any issues with this type over the grease type?  Should I be concerned or just add this to my list of de-rusting??!

 

thanks all!!!!

[Rebotco]

I'm no expert, but that engine bay looks just fine to me.  Looks like a cruiser stern, so some rain will always get in if left uncovered.

That rust looks minimal compared to mine!  I'd be highly chuffed if mine looked in as good condition as that.

[Keeping Up]

Not a lot.of rust. Give it a quick rub down and a coat of Danboline & it would be perfect.

[Neil2]

Any chance of a close up of that shaft seal?  If it's one of the maintenance free types there shouldn't be any water collecting in the bilge from it, but it looks like there is.  

 

Also looking at the "tide mark" the bilge generally has had a lot of water in it, more than I would find acceptable even on a cruiser stern boat.  

[blackrose]

I've never had a problem with my water lubricated gland but it is worth checking to see if it's leaking and checking the service history (along with the engine). The gland should have had a small amount of silicone grease added annually through a screw hole on the top.

 

If the engine room was flooded with 6" of rain water and then dried out it's not a problem, but it might indicate it was left uncared for for some time.

[robtheplod]

Thanks for all the replies. Here's a more close up photo. The current owner has lived abroad for a bit so it could be the high watermark may well be a rainwater flood but will ask the question. Assuming worst case scenario that the gland hasn't been looked after and could be leaking, what sort of job is it to repair/correct - is it an out of water job?  Not put off by this - just really trying to gauge a reasonable price for the boat... by the way this is a Semi-Trad, not cruiser.

Edited July 28, 2019 by robtheplod

[Fender151]

Hi Rob,

I have a liverpool  cruiser stern NB with the Isuzu 42 engine, and prm 120 gearbox.

As Brian points out, the  cruiser stern are prone to rain water in the engine bay, the rain channels and outlet need to be be kept clear of  any build up of rubbish that blocks the channel and results in water in the engine bay.

Also, on my boat, the  stern gland has a tendency to drip when cruising if the not greased, there is a hex head bolt on the top of gland that provides a grease point. 

 

It is difficult  to tell if the rust shown in the photo of the engine bay is just surface or not, I would want to have a closer look maybe ask seller permission to use a scraper.

Good news, the engine bay is reasonably accessible, rust proof and repaint can be sorted by, in my case, old git. 

Also, if the, engine and gearbox have been serviced according to manual, which because of easy access is very easy to do,  means it is more likely to be done, they are very reliable units.

Hope that helps.

 

Your update posted whilst I was typing, not sure my ease of access  comment still applies

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Fender151

[RichLech]

I would have expected to see an automatic bilge pump in the square recess under the shaft. This should stop the water getting to the level indicated by the rust "tide mark". can't see if there is a bilge pump or not. If there is one there, the tide mark level could have been caused by faulty/switched off bilge pump or flat battery at some time. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, RichLech said:

I would have expected to see an automatic bilge pump in the square recess under the shaft. This should stop the water getting to the level indicated by the rust "tide mark". can't see if there is a bilge pump or not. If there is one there, the tide mark level could have been caused by faulty/switched off bilge pump or flat battery at some time. 

Why?

 

Automatic bilge pumps may be fen when you are on a shoreline with battery charger running when you are away from the boat or have sufficient solar installed  but they are a first class way of destroying batteries if not. In close to 20 years of cruiser stern ownership I have never had an automatic bilge pump and leave the boat for long periods but I have NEVER had rain water higher than the engine beds but I do visit the boat every month or two throughout winter. Oh and mines a conventional stern gland,just to make water ingress a little more likely.

[robtheplod]

18 minutes ago, RichLech said:

I would have expected to see an automatic bilge pump in the square recess under the shaft. This should stop the water getting to the level indicated by the rust "tide mark". can't see if there is a bilge pump or not. If there is one there, the tide mark level could have been caused by faulty/switched off bilge pump or flat battery at some time. 

The picture isn't that clear - there is a bilge pump but its hidden by the shaft...

 

So I'm getting a feeling that there probably isn't too much to worry about here … just need to get in there and sort post sale.....

[alan_fincher]

Yes, probably not too much to worry about, but cruiser stern or not, I'd say leaving maybe 4" of water in the bilge for extended periods is never a great idea.  For whatever reason it has happened, the height of the tide mark makes it quite clear there has often been far more water in there than there is now.

[RichLech]

51 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Why?

 

Automatic bilge pumps may be fen when you are on a shoreline with battery charger running when you are away from the boat or have sufficient solar installed  but they are a first class way of destroying batteries if not. In close to 20 years of cruiser stern ownership I have never had an automatic bilge pump and leave the boat for long periods but I have NEVER had rain water higher than the engine beds but I do visit the boat every month or two throughout winter. Oh and mines a conventional stern gland,just to make water ingress a little more likely.

Fair comment!

 

I am always either cruising or in the marina with shoreline & charger so I do leave mine on all the time, just in case. As far as I know it has never operated but I test it regularly. When I bought my boat the bilge looked similar to the OPs so I spent hours de-rusting and painting. It was a filthy job so I now do all I can to ensure I never have to do that again. I keep a plastic container under the stern gland, empty it every day that I cruise and ensure the gland is greased at the end of the day as well. Any water that gets past the plastic container is mopped up at the end of the day. So the only water ever left in the bilge is a little when it rains - and there is not much of that as I have a covered semi-trad.   

 

I guess many will find my approach is a bit OTT but I am happy that when I lift my deck boards the engine space is clean and dry. 

[robtheplod]

9 minutes ago, RichLech said:

Fair comment!

 

I am always either cruising or in the marina with shoreline & charger so I do leave mine on all the time, just in case. As far as I know it has never operated but I test it regularly. When I bought my boat the bilge looked similar to the OPs so I spent hours de-rusting and painting. It was a filthy job so I now do all I can to ensure I never have to do that again. I keep a plastic container under the stern gland, empty it every day that I cruise and ensure the gland is greased at the end of the day as well. Any water that gets past the plastic container is mopped up at the end of the day. So the only water ever left in the bilge is a little when it rains - and there is not much of that as I have a covered semi-trad.   

 

I guess many will find my approach is a bit OTT but I am happy that when I lift my deck boards the engine space is clean and dry. 

I like your style!  I'll be the same I suspect!

[Laurie Booth]

I have a washing up bowl under the stern tube to catch the water drips with a bilge pump in the bowl.

Plus Tesco nappies to catch any other water that may be in the bilge.

(Please note Hudson owners use Pampers)

[blackrose]

I would just try to find out if there are any records of servicing the engine, gearbox and stern gland according to the age of the boat and number of engine hours. 

 

I knew a bloke with an Izusu engine and PRM 150 gearbox who lost power because the gearbox was overheating after less than a year. When he called PRM (or HMI?) to ask about it they asked him how many hours it had done and when the first 50 hour oil change was carried out. He sheepishly admitted it had done over 300 hours he but hadn't serviced the box. They asked him for the gearbox serial number so he gave it to them and as soon as he finished reading it out over the phone they said "the warranty for your gearbox is now void." 

 

Cost him about £650 to get it fixed 

Edited July 28, 2019 by blackrose

[blackrose]

5 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

I have a washing up bowl under the stern tube to catch the water drips with a bilge pump in the bowl.

Plus Tesco nappies to catch any other water that may be in the bilge.

(Please note Hudson owners use Pampers)

 

Ideally the water lubricated gland shouldn't drip at all. Mine never has. If it is dripping it may need new seals.

[Laurie Booth]

Just now, blackrose said:

 

Ideally the water lubricated gland shouldn't drip at all. Mine never has. If it is dripping it may need new seals.

I always thought it should drip a bit while running, then when moored up use the grease gun to stop the drip?

[blackrose]

6 minutes ago, Laurie.Booth said:

I always thought it should drip a bit while running, then when moored up use the grease gun to stop the drip?

 

You're talking about a conventional greasy gland. The boat we're talking about has a Vetus water lubricated stern gland. They shouldn't drip.

Edited July 28, 2019 by blackrose

[OldGoat]

If you love the boat and intend to keep it for some time -

How's about lifting the engine out,

cleaning, derusting painting the whole engine bay area?

At the same time fix the stoern gland?

 

I did that to mine when I had to replace the engine and the water which inevitably accumulates doesn't look so bad....

[Laurie Booth]

57 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

You're talking about a conventional greasy gland. The boat we're talking about has a Vetus water lubricated stern gland. They shouldn't drip.

I see

[robtheplod]

Thanks for the very useful replies. I've asked to see the history of servicing on the boat so we'll see what that shows. Will have a full pre-purchase survey in any case if we go ahead. Out of interest I've several threads where the water sealed units don't seem to be working (and get hot etc) - how do you know its working correctly?

[Richard10002]

11 hours ago, Rebotco said:

I'm no expert, but that engine bay looks just fine to me.  Looks like a cruiser stern, so some rain will always get in if left uncovered.

That rust looks minimal compared to mine!  I'd be highly chuffed if mine looked in as good condition as that.

Ditto mine last year. A bit of scraping, some Vactan, and a paint job, and all is well.

 

Cruiser sterns are prone to this, and need a close eye to avoid it.

 

The survey will tell you the thickness of the plate in the area. A bit of rust is unlikely to have reduced it by more than a few millimetres, if that.

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks for the very useful replies. I've asked to see the history of servicing on the boat so we'll see what that shows. Will have a full pre-purchase survey in any case if we go ahead. Out of interest I've several threads where the water sealed units don't seem to be working (and get hot etc) - how do you know its working correctly?

Just run the engine in gear, if the seal is faulty it will drip immediately, it shouldn't drip at all but my guess is it does and the owner has neglected to do anything about it. 

 

That engine bay has had a lot of water in it at some time, and for some time.  Don't go looking for excuses on the owners behalf there are lots more boats for sale. 

[GRLMK38]

3 hours ago, Laurie.Booth said:

I have a washing up bowl under the stern tube to catch the water drips with a bilge pump in the bowl.

Plus Tesco nappies to catch any other water that may be in the bilge.

(Please note Hudson owners use Pampers)

How would they know, I thought the butler dealt with it? ?

[cuthound]

I have a Vetus water cooled stern gland. It never drips going forward and produce a only a drip or two of water in reverse.

 

They need lubricating with silicon grease every 100 hours. I use "plumba grease" http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/50ml-plumba-grease.html

 

You simply remove the Allen bolt on top of the gland, put some silicon grease into a plastic syringe, and squeeze a toothbrush head size blob into the gland. Replace the Allen bolt, wipe a smear of silicon grease around the prop shaft on the outside of the gland and leave well alone for another 100 hours.

 

If the Vetus gland starts to leak in forward gear, then it needs replacing. This can be done in the water if you are quick, but perhaps for the first time you do it best left until you dry dock.

Edited July 28, 2019 by cuthound
Spillung