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SR2 losing oil


Arthur Marshall

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4 hours ago, john.k said:

Mention of being unable to look ....then get one of the little cameras on a lead  from ebay for around $12-$20.....Id be inclined to put a positive breather on the crankcase,and get a little depression inside the motor.......the oil will not be blown out by positive pressure,and with a little luck may be pulled in........I have had a lot of oil leaks in these motors from behind the pump chamber.....the camshaft is easy fix,simply add another seal,double sealing it......Also be aware too high an oil level will cause major leaks,and adding more oil simply perpetuates the flow.

I've been wondering about that especially as there seems to be some problems with getting the dip sticks correct. certainly a scroll on the rear main is likely to leak    with an overfull sump. I have also known it to happen in yachts where the engine is installed at too great an angle but that is unlikely on a narrowboat.

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  • 4 months later...
On 13/08/2019 at 14:37, Tony Brooks said:

Richard's the man for this but if you are 100% sure its not a rocker cover gasket then I fear it may be from the cylinder barrel to crankcase gaskets. In my day they were single layer copper gaskets. Have you poked out the crankcase breather tubes located under the rocker cover? I can't see how two could block but excess crankcase pressure can make any engine leak oil from gasketed joints.

 

Edited to add that you should be able to see the barrel to crankcase joint if you remove the air outlet ducting I think but you may not be flexible enough to look in there

Further to all this, as the original bloke I took it to ended up not having the time to do the job he thought it was, I had it looked at by the guy who rebuilt it twenty years ago and then by another local engineer. Both thought it more likely to be the gasket than the oil seal so,as the engine doesn't have to come out for that, it's cheaper so we're doing that first. If it turns out not to be and he doesn't find any other culprit while he's in there. I'll have to move on.

The only other major thing that's happened over the last few years is the gearbox coming off and going back on, so have mentioned it, but can't see how that could be a cause.

Sadly, this could be the end of thirty years with the boat as I'm running out of money. I'd hoped it would last as long as I did so fingers crossed...

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On 13/08/2019 at 14:37, Tony Brooks said:

Richard's the man for this but if you are 100% sure its not a rocker cover gasket then I fear it may be from the cylinder barrel to crankcase gaskets. In my day they were single layer copper gaskets. Have you poked out the crankcase breather tubes located under the rocker cover? I can't see how two could block but excess crankcase pressure can make any engine leak oil from gasketed joints.

 

Edited to add that you should be able to see the barrel to crankcase joint if you remove the air outlet ducting I think but you may not be flexible enough to look in there

I know this has been rambling on, but one more question. Where the copper gasket is, would you expect it to be a dry joint or would it have some kind of sealant there too?

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7 hours ago, OptedOut said:

I think the copper rings should be sealed with blue Hylomar.

I would only use a sealer if I were reusing an old copper gasket and even then I would try to anneal it first.  Can't ever remember using sealer on the SLs.

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7 hours ago, OptedOut said:

I think the copper rings should be sealed with blue Hylomar.

That's what the engineer said, but they hadn't been. Not sure what else he found yet, picking the boat up today with crossed fingers, toes and anything else I can get a knot in.

He also said something incomprehensible about the cylinders, shims and lead which I hope to have an explanatory word about later. I wish I'd done a course on this stuff thirty years ago, but I didn't need to because my mate is an expert diesel engineer. Unfortunately he's got old at the same rate I have...

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34 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

That's what the engineer said, but they hadn't been. Not sure what else he found yet, picking the boat up today with crossed fingers, toes and anything else I can get a knot in.

He also said something incomprehensible about the cylinders, shims and lead which I hope to have an explanatory word about later. I wish I'd done a course on this stuff thirty years ago, but I didn't need to because my mate is an expert diesel engineer. Unfortunately he's got old at the same rate I have...

The engineer was talking about how he would gauge and set the bump clearance. That is the gap between piston top and cylinder head at TDC.

 

WE used a strip of multicore solder as it was easy to get hold of but you could use lead "wire" .  With the head off two strips of the solder/lead wire are placed on the piston crown in line with the gudgeon pin. The head is then fitted with just the cylinder head gasket (thickish flat steel ring) and torqued down. Then you turn the engine over a few tomes, remove the head and retrieve the solder/lead wire. This will then have been squashed and gives the gap between piston and head. You measure the thickness of the solder/lead and use that to calculate what shims you need (more flat steel rings but much thinner than the gasket) to get the gap between piston top and cylinder head as per the manual.

 

It is because of this procedure I would be reluctant to use any goo on the copper cylinder to crankcase gasket unless the manual mandated it. Just checked my manual - yes Hylomar

 

It sounds more complicated than  it is. It would not surprise me if similar were not required on things like motor cycles with individual cylinders etc.

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On 13/08/2019 at 17:06, BEngo said:

The felt ring and bronze spiral I described  are at the gearbox end, so they are not your problem. 

Unfortunately, it's almost certain to be the crankshaft oil seal. Oil leaks out, onto the flywheel, is thrown into the airstream, along the tin duct, hit the end and runs down onto the top of block in almost exactly that place

 

Richard

8 hours ago, OptedOut said:

I think the copper rings should be sealed with blue Hylomar.

Yes to some sealant, not Hylomar (horrid stuff)

 

Wellseal is my preference

 

You get bigger leaks in that area from the bottom of the fuel pump housing than from the copper rings. Those rings are clamped tight by the cylinder head studs. The gasket under the fuel pump housing on the other hand relaxes and always has oil next to it

 

Richard

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We always greased both sides of the old copper asbestos gaskets, mainly head gaskets, which allows them to sort of slide a bit, otherwise they could become delaminated, sort of spread by the expansion and contraction of the head and block.

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Picked the boat up this morning, he showed me the old copper rings which hadn't had anything added to them, and you could see where the leaks had been. All seems fine now to my grest relief. He's done s lot of tidying up and adjusted one of the cylinders. The quote was £500 and the final price less than half that. And from a marina too.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Picked the boat up this morning, he showed me the old copper rings which hadn't had anything added to them, and you could see where the leaks had been. All seems fine now to my grest relief. He's done s lot of tidying up and adjusted one of the cylinders. The quote was £500 and the final price less than half that. And from a marina too.

 

 

That is very good news, and pleasing that the quote was a pessimistic one.

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27 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

That is very good news, and pleasing that the quote was a pessimistic one.

It's good, and a bit surprising, to get an honest quote and then get charged the rate for the job, and a bit apologetically at thst as the guy said the Marina added their cut to his bill, which, as he works for them. I thought was perfectly fair. Heritage, it was ,on the lower Macc. And as the original quote was two grand for something that wasn't actually the problem  I'm rather pleased.

Why there is a small lake under my floorboards, however, is another matter. Condensation, I think. Been a strange winter.

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9 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Bugger. Back to square one. The obvious leak that's been there for years is indeed sorted, but the bilge is full of oil again. No obvious leaks. I do suspect the drain plug.  Getting a little tired of narrowboats...

 

 

Have a feel underneath the fan housing, it has a tiny drain hole in the bottom

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2 minutes ago, OptedOut said:

Suggest you try two bowls or suitable oven pans under the engine , one under the fan casing area and the other under the camshaft gear case. This should indicate which end the problem is?

 

You'll see a camshaft oil seal leak, oil will clearly be running down the face of the end cover

 

The end of the camshaft has a lip seal and an oil thrower inside that. Removing and refitting an end cover often means destroying the seal because of the oil thrower, so when I test run an SR I leave the seal out. You don't get a massive leak although it is pretty obvious. I fit the seal before a final test run

 

Richard

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9 minutes ago, OptedOut said:

Looking the image with the yellow arrow I was thinking about the camshaft gear case or gasket.

Lister Sr2 oil leak.jpg

 

Too far back. The camshaft oil seal is behind the redundant pulley bottom right (under the fuel pipe)

 

Richard

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