Arthur Marshall Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) My Lister SR2 has lost a litre of oil in about 15 hours running. It seems to have wound up in the drip tray in the bilge and I can see no obvious place it's coming from. Prior to this, I found at the last oil change 3 days ago it was down by a litre and a half but couldn't remember when I last checked. Any ideas? Everything seems to be tight. Gearbox has been off and on recently, engine rebuilt five years ago. I'm not far from Chas Hardin on the Shroppieso could stop there if nec or try to make it home to Macclesfield. ETA can't see it's relelvant, but I've a blown gasket on the exhaust too. Edited July 25, 2019 by Arthur Marshall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) Obvious places are: Crankshaft oil seal Camshaft oil seal Rocker cover joints Door joints The last three are easy to see, the first will mean a lot of oil coming out around the fuel pump housing Far less obvious are: The oil pump on the bottom of the block, front left The feed to the oil pressure gauge (if you have one) Richard Edited July 25, 2019 by RLWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 IIRC There is a felt ring and bronze spiral oil seal at the back of the crank, behind the flywheel. If that leaks or spins the oil comes out of the bottom of the flywheel housing. If you can afford the oil, I would be inclined to work your way back to home, checking the oil regularly and looking hard to see how it is getting into the bilge. If you can, mop out the bilge and wipe off the accessible bits of the underside of the engine. Then put a good thick layer of clean newspaper in the bilge. Any Sunday paper will have enough newsprint for the job! Check after about half an hour and see where the drip is. That will give you a start and maybe a trail of oil to follow. N 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 I'm wondering if might be as simple as the pipe from the drain plug to the pump used to get the oil out for a change having sprung a leak. Its been there for 20 years. Going to call in at the yard tomorrow for them to have a look as I can't physically get down there any more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: I'm wondering if might be as simple as the pipe from the drain plug to the pump used to get the oil out for a change having sprung a leak. Its been there for 20 years. Going to call in at the yard tomorrow for them to have a look as I can't physically get down there any more! Damn - I forgot to mention that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 Blocked crankcase breather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted July 25, 2019 Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said: I'm wondering if might be as simple as the pipe from the drain plug to the pump used to get the oil out for a change having sprung a leak. Its been there for 20 years. Going to call in at the yard tomorrow for them to have a look as I can't physically get down there any more! I know that feeling ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted July 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2019 There's nothing obvious that I can see round the sides of the beast,no oily bits that shouldn't be oily. I'll see what Chas can come up with tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 25/07/2019 at 18:24, Arthur Marshall said: I'm wondering if might be as simple as the pipe from the drain plug to the pump used to get the oil out for a change having sprung a leak. Its been there for 20 years. Going to call in at the yard tomorrow for them to have a look as I can't physically get down there any more! I have had the internals fail in one of those brass pumps, with the oil backing up and flowing out as if the pump was being operated. If yours doesn't have an isolation valve, it may be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted July 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, BWM said: I have had the internals fail in one of those brass pumps, with the oil backing up and flowing out as if the pump was being operated. If yours doesn't have an isolation valve, it may be that. I did wonder about that too, but there doesn't seem to be any sign of oil from it. I'll replace it anyway ASAP and an isolator is a good idea too. Chas didn't have time to look, so im heading home... Two days later, the stick still shows full, which is odd. Damn boat makes me nervous when it mucks me about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWM Posted July 28, 2019 Report Share Posted July 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: I did wonder about that too, but there doesn't seem to be any sign of oil from it. I'll replace it anyway ASAP and an isolator is a good idea too. Chas didn't have time to look, so im heading home... Two days later, the stick still shows full, which is odd. Damn boat makes me nervous when it mucks me about. You may not notice any oil as it exits the spout, if you don't have a shut off valve it might well be it. From memory it tended only to come out under certain conditions, and could drop a fair amount of oil, due to a siphon type effect i presume. Ours would have been about 20 years old too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 On 25/07/2019 at 16:39, BEngo said: IIRC There is a felt ring and bronze spiral oil seal at the back of the crank, behind the flywheel. If that leaks or spins the oil comes out of the bottom of the flywheel housing. It's coming out where the arrow's pointing below. It's not running down from the rocker covers, or, as far as i can see, anywhere else. It started as a small ooze of oil but over an eight hour day is now losing about half a litre. Not sure if this is where you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) Richard's the man for this but if you are 100% sure its not a rocker cover gasket then I fear it may be from the cylinder barrel to crankcase gaskets. In my day they were single layer copper gaskets. Have you poked out the crankcase breather tubes located under the rocker cover? I can't see how two could block but excess crankcase pressure can make any engine leak oil from gasketed joints. Edited to add that you should be able to see the barrel to crankcase joint if you remove the air outlet ducting I think but you may not be flexible enough to look in there Edited August 13, 2019 by Tony Brooks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woottonlaser Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Does it appear from the gasket between the fuel pump housing and the block? as there is a reasonable amount of oil lying in that area while running as well laying in the fuel pump housing area before draining back into the sump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said: It's coming out where the arrow's pointing below. It's not running down from the rocker covers, or, as far as i can see, anywhere else. It started as a small ooze of oil but over an eight hour day is now losing about half a litre. Not sure if this is where you mean? The felt ring and bronze spiral I described are at the gearbox end, so they are not your problem. From your arrow I would expect it to be either the front crankshaft oil seal, or the camshaft oil seal , as mentioned by Richard earlier, or the gasket behind the housing indicated by your arrow. Can you check all the nuts/bolts through it are still tight? N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Woottonlaser said: Does it appear from the gasket between the fuel pump housing and the block? as there is a reasonable amount of oil lying in that area while running as well laying in the fuel pump housing area before draining back into the sump Could be. I rather suspect a gasket as it's worse when cold. As the engine heats up the leak gets less, presumably as the thing expands. I'm surrendering it to a boatyard in the hope they can track it down and sort it. Just now, BEngo said: The felt ring and bronze spiral I described are at the gearbox end, so they are not your problem. From your arrow I would expect it to be either the front crankshaft oil seal, or the camshaft oil seal , as mentioned by Richard earlier, or the gasket behind the housing indicated by your arrow. Can you check all the nuts/bolts through it are still tight? N Nuts and bolts are tight. I'll mention all these suggestions to the yard when I finally get in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 The man reckons its the crankshaft oil seal. It's lucky I'm rich. Well, it would be, if I was. I'll have to repeat three times after meals "I like boats..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said: The man reckons its the crankshaft oil seal. It's lucky I'm rich. Well, it would be, if I was. I'll have to repeat three times after meals "I like boats..." According to your arrow Arthur the leak looks too high up to be a crankshaft oil seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 He reckons its leaking from the seal and then blowing through with the fan and just coming out along the gap there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said: He reckons its leaking from the seal and then blowing through with the fan and just coming out along the gap there. Rear main bearing oil seal? Suck of teeth " That will be pricey". Is the crankcase breather clear? Any crankcase compression will make it worse. Edited August 15, 2019 by Boater Sam added more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted August 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, Boater Sam said: Rear main bearing oil seal? Suck of teeth " That will be pricey". Is the crankcase breather clear? Any crankcase compression will make it worse. Nothing else seems to be wrong. If I'm poodling up a lock flight it hardly loses any oil. It's when it goes cruising at a flat out 3mph that it seems to chuck it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 Still wittering on about this, I'm afraid, still not fixed. If it's the crankshaft or camshaft oil seals, I presume it could be either, so firstly is it worth getting both replaced at the same time, and secondly is it correct that, as I've been told, the engine has to come out of the boat to do this? And can anyone give me a ballpark figure that this is likely to cost me (I'm not going to quote this at anyone, I just want a vague idea - we can assume that everything goes smoothly for the sake of argument, though I know it never really does). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted October 28, 2019 Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'd have thought any costs involved in lifting the lump out would be cheaper than the additional hourly rate levied for the acrobatic gymnastics employed by the double jointed, ambidextrous midget they'd have to bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john.k Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Mention of being unable to look ....then get one of the little cameras on a lead from ebay for around $12-$20.....Id be inclined to put a positive breather on the crankcase,and get a little depression inside the motor.......the oil will not be blown out by positive pressure,and with a little luck may be pulled in........I have had a lot of oil leaks in these motors from behind the pump chamber.....the camshaft is easy fix,simply add another seal,double sealing it......Also be aware too high an oil level will cause major leaks,and adding more oil simply perpetuates the flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 The breathers in these engines are pretty effective and designed to create a slight vacuum in the crankcase. Internal tubes that come up from the crankcase and connect into the air inlet ports in the head The engine can be run with an oil filler cap can be left off as an extra breather with a bit of cloth over the orifice to catch oil spitting up, to see if it makes any difference to oil consumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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