Mia Gulper

[DanMax&Belle]

 

Finishing my fittout - I attached the bathroom sink (which is positioned in such a way as to not allow it to flow out directly to the skin fitting) and the shower to a gulper pump via a Y fitting but it doesnt suck water out of the shower quick enough unless i put the plug in to the sink and even then it's not as quick at removing the water as it was when the sink wasnt connected. Any ideas? its worth mentioning that i thought it was a good idea to attach a one way valve (one of the below) between the Y fitting and the shower/ sink to prevent the sink emptyiing out into the shower - could this be the issue?

 

Thanks 

 

valve -  https://seamarknunn.com/acatalog/Whale-Non-Return-Valve-25mm-28mm-LV1218-MTLV1218.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwpuXpBRAAEiwAyRRPgVe5cUc04DLGzqUhopj1DmRi3fOdb60qVsQfsJU649xFLpV4uptdTxoCIW8QAvD_BwE

[Alan de Enfield]

Is the Y fitting close to the pump ?

 

If so it could be sucking air down one pipe (sink) and water down the other pipe (shower) so you could be getting 50/50 air & water, hence the slow removal of the water.

 

I have two pumps in our bathroom - one for the shower and one for the basin.

[DanMax&Belle]

yes within about 30cm, im really hoping to not have 2 pumps if possible. Are your 2 pumps on the same switch Alan?

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, DanMax&Belle said:

yes within about 30cm, im really hoping to not have 2 pumps if possible. Are your 2 pumps on the same switch Alan?

No - individual switches - I wouldn't want to run (say) the sink pump dry for 10 minutes whilst having a shower.

 

Putting the plug in the sink improving things does suggest to me you are getting too much air into the pipe.

 

Can you not put the valve near to the shower 'plug-hole' so there is a length between the two pipes coming into the Y ?

What sort of lengths are the pipe runs ?

[Chewbacka]

Air has a much lower friction and viscosity than water, so the pump will tend to suck mainly air, the water from the shower will fall by gravity to the pump and be removed, but what you need is to suck the water from the shower.  So either keep the basin plug in, or disconnect the basin and raise it so it drains directly out of the boat not via the pump.  If neither of those ideas suit, then buy a second gulper.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Chewbacka

[Opener]

A passing thought. Does your bathroom sink have an overflow (which would conventionally join the sink waste after the plug and provide a new source of air)?

[DanMax&Belle]

52 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - individual switches - I wouldn't want to run (say) the sink pump dry for 10 minutes whilst having a shower.

 

Putting the plug in the sink improving things does suggest to me you are getting too much air into the pipe.

 

Can you not put the valve near to the shower 'plug-hole' so there is a length between the two pipes coming into the Y ?

What sort of lengths are the pipe runs ?

noted RE individual switches

yes im convinced the air is getting in, in fact you can hear air going past the plug edges - so must be some serious differencial

i can put the valve nearer the shower and will definetly try it as my next move - thanks 

- Sink has about 3 metres of pipe/reinfocred hose shower to the vallve (which is next to) the Y fitting

- Shower has around 1.4 metres of pipe/reinforced hose before the valve (which is next to) the Y fitting

[DanMax&Belle]

58 minutes ago, Opener said:

A passing thought. Does your bathroom sink have an overflow (which would conventionally join the sink waste after the plug and provide a new source of air)?

there's no overflow on this sink

[Alan de Enfield]

20 minutes ago, DanMax&Belle said:

there's no overflow on this sink

If all else fails you could put a stop-cock (lever valve)  in the basin waste pipe and keep it closed.

The problem would be remembering to open it when using the basin - but - as the water level filled the basin you would hopefully notice ??????

 

 

 

[Flyboy]

2 hours ago, DanMax&Belle said:

 

Finishing my fittout - I attached the bathroom sink (which is positioned in such a way as to not allow it to flow out directly to the skin fitting) and the shower to a gulper pump via a Y fitting but it doesnt suck water out of the shower quick enough unless i put the plug in to the sink and even then it's not as quick at removing the water as it was when the sink wasnt connected. Any ideas? its worth mentioning that i thought it was a good idea to attach a one way valve (one of the below) between the Y fitting and the shower/ sink to prevent the sink emptyiing out into the shower - could this be the issue?

 

Thanks 

 

valve -  https://seamarknunn.com/acatalog/Whale-Non-Return-Valve-25mm-28mm-LV1218-MTLV1218.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwpuXpBRAAEiwAyRRPgVe5cUc04DLGzqUhopj1DmRi3fOdb60qVsQfsJU649xFLpV4uptdTxoCIW8QAvD_BwE

Why do you need to pump out the sink?  Is it not near the side of the boat ? Normal practice is to drain by gravity directly out through the side via a skin fitting.,

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Why do you need to pump out the sink?  Is it not near the side of the boat ? Normal practice is to drain by gravity directly out through the side via a skin fitting.,

 

Post #1

 

2 hours ago, DanMax&Belle said:

I attached the bathroom sink (which is positioned in such a way as to not allow it to flow out directly to the skin fitting)……………….

 

I am working on the assumption it is below the hull fitting,

[Flyboy]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Post #1

 

 

I am working on the assumption it is below the hull fitting,

I think using one way valves is asking for trouble. The Whale Gulper is the pump of choice because its valves can pass hair & other debris where as most ordinary NR valves will soon block up.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I think using one way valves is asking for trouble. The Whale Gulper is the pump of choice because its valves can pass hair & other debris where as most ordinary NR valves will soon block up.

Agreed - two pumps (and two hull fittings) is the way to go.

[blackrose]

13 hours ago, DanMax&Belle said:

 

Finishing my fittout - I attached the bathroom sink (which is positioned in such a way as to not allow it to flow out directly to the skin fitting)

That was your mistake I'm afraid and anything you do after that is basically a workaround. It can be made to work of course as some of the advice in this thread will attest, but positioning a sink on a boat so that the simplest form of draining it (gravity) won't work is a failure of functional design.

 

I've seen a bloke have the same problem after fitting a deep butler sink in a galley he'd built towards the stern the boat. His girlfriend wanted that particular sink but instead of saying No he ended up having to cut a drain hole in the hull about an inch above the waterline to get it to drain - a classic mistake of watching too many property programmes on TV and prioritising contemporary aesthetics over good functional boat design.

 

I don't mean to criticise, you've already cleverly admitted your mistake in the title of the thread, but it's a lesson for those contemplating their own fit-out.

Edited July 26, 2019 by blackrose

[Guest]

I too liked the thread title. 

[Chewbacka]

18 hours ago, DanMax&Belle said:

noted RE individual switches

yes im convinced the air is getting in, in fact you can hear air going past the plug edges - so must be some serious differencial

i can put the valve nearer the shower and will definetly try it as my next move - thanks 

- Sink has about 3 metres of pipe/reinfocred hose shower to the vallve (which is next to) the Y fitting

- Shower has around 1.4 metres of pipe/reinforced hose before the valve (which is next to) the Y fitting

If you want to confirm the air entry point is the sink plug, then put the plug in and part fill the sink, it will probably pump out the shower just fine.  If so that’s the temp  solution to your problem until you can get a second pump.  The non return valves will not help with this problem as the air is flowing in the flow direction of the valve, though it may help with stopping the sink emptying into the shower if the pump is not running.  Sorry, but you need a second pump.

[DanMax&Belle]

6 hours ago, blackrose said:

That was your mistake I'm afraid and anything you do after that is basically a workaround. It can be made to work of course as some of the advice in this thread will attest, but positioning a sink on a boat so that the simplest form of draining it (gravity) won't work is a failure of functional design.

 

I've seen a bloke have the same problem after fitting a deep butler sink in a galley he'd built towards the stern the boat. His girlfriend wanted that particular sink but instead of saying No he ended up having to cut a drain hole in the hull about an inch above the waterline to get it to drain - a classic mistake of watching too many property programmes on TV and prioritising contemporary aesthetics over good functional boat design.

 

I don't mean to criticise, you've already cleverly admitted your mistake in the title of the thread, but it's a lesson for those contemplating their own fit-out.

Are you an ex headmaster blackrose? lol

I think you’re right, main takeaways from this thread to anyone that’s planing their boat:

1. Try and make sure your sink can gravity drain out of the boat.

2. If that is not possible then install a separate pump, pipe/hose run, switch and skin fitting for each bathroom application.

3. This removes the need for additional NRVs in the system which can bung up.

35 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If you want to confirm the air entry point is the sink plug, then put the plug in and part fill the sink, it will probably pump out the shower just fine.  If so that’s the temp  solution to your problem until you can get a second pump.  The non return valves will not help with this problem as the air is flowing in the flow direction of the valve, though it may help with stopping the sink emptying into the shower if the pump is not running.  Sorry, but you need a second pump.

nice one will do this 

46 minutes ago, Winn said:

I too liked the thread title. 

This was an attempt to cheer up the likes of blackrose

[blackrose]

Sorry, just an opinion! ?

[David Mack]

On 25/07/2019 at 13:24, DanMax&Belle said:

 

Finishing my fittout - I attached the bathroom sink (which is positioned in such a way as to not allow it to flow out directly to the skin fitting)

Just how low is the sink? Ideally your skin fitting would be well above the water line, but you can still have gravity drainage with a low skin fitting provided the rim of the sink is a suitable height above the water line, and you have a good quality hose, double clipped to the sink waste and skin fittings.

Might be easier than messing with valves or duplicate pumps.

[blackrose]

9 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Just how low is the sink? Ideally your skin fitting would be well above the water line, but you can still have gravity drainage with a low skin fitting provided the rim of the sink is a suitable height above the water line, and you have a good quality hose, double clipped to the sink waste and skin fittings.

Might be easier than messing with valves or duplicate pumps.

 

The only trouble with a skin fitting close to the waterline is that they can get damaged or even broken off in locks. It's rare but it can happen. If it does you're unlikely to know about it and then you've got a hole in the hull close to the waterline. If you want a drain hole close to the waterline better to get a pipe welded in and ground flush when the boat is out of the water and then keep it well painted and an eye on it for any corrosion.

Edited July 26, 2019 by blackrose

[PMB]

Would another way to solve this be to have the handwash basin drain to a point before the gulper, ie. between the shower drain hole and "Y" into the gulper (ideally with an auto level sense switch (the yellow gulper??))

I'm in the same, hardy har, boat. I want to swap the loo and HWB over so I can use the old HWB fitting to vent a compost (pre composting waterless dollection device) bog.

Orrr for my situation can I "Y" into the gravity outlet of the HWB with the air vent from the previously stated personal waste collection device?

[Chewbacka]

33 minutes ago, PMB said:

Would another way to solve this be to have the handwash basin drain to a point before the gulper, ie. between the shower drain hole and "Y" into the gulper (ideally with an auto level sense switch (the yellow gulper??))

I'm in the same, hardy har, boat. I want to swap the loo and HWB over so I can use the old HWB fitting to vent a compost (pre composting waterless dollection device) bog.

Orrr for my situation can I "Y" into the gravity outlet of the HWB with the air vent from the previously stated personal waste collection device?

Two open waste pipes starting at different levels going to a single pump is going to result in poor performance with air being pumped.  One way round would be for both to drain in a sump and use the gulper to empty the sump.  Disadvantage is the sump will be smelly and over flow when the basin is emptied if you forget to run the pump.  An auto level switch will work until it jams up with hair etc.

 

if you put the toilet air vent into the basin drain, then it will vent into the basin especially with a bit of breeze outside........

[Tony Brooks]

I don't understand the problem. I have happily cut holes in the hull side with a decent hole cutter and then used a skin fitting in the hole. Far easier than messing about with Y valves, Y connectors and worrying about pongs from the basin or shower waste.

 

I did mine wit ha Scxrewfix hole saw, a cheap Homebase electric drill and a 1KVA Honda generator. Just took my time and used plenty of coolant/lubricant. My hole was 3/4", 1/2" would be easier.

 

 

[Clodi]

The thread title is brilliant ?