Maintenance Costs

[jammied]

My understanding is you have to dry dock the boat every few years? I am thinking it is time to start digging for info using the good old search function. 

 

[jammied]

As I say, location wise, looking at Shardlow or Sawley marinas (Nottinghamshire general area) Castle Marina is more than I want to pay... 

 

I might pop into Sawley marina tomorrow and find out a bit more. 

 

[Slim]

5 minutes ago, jammied said:

£3250 is something that would be affordable for me. 

 

 

You are joking. Ignore my post I pushed the wrong button.

I started to reply seriously but something went wrong.

If I look at the costs over the last 4 years it's nearer £8000 per year!

As an indication, NOT TYPICAL BUT FACTUAL. This week, yes week, major problem with stern gear that will cost circa £400 parts, plus labour, not a DIY job say £200. plus slipping, say £400 plus odds and sods so if I see change out of 1 K I'll be lucky.

Oh, as an other indication of costs, earlier today issue with Whale Gulper, the joker valve, not available as an individual item only in overhaul kit. £18.87.

Since getting the boat 23 years ago I can count on one hand how many times I've paid for someone to work on it. Indeed I fitted it out completely from a bare shell.

 

Sorry if I seem to be ranting but people who think owning a boat is cheap are living in cloud cuckoo land  

 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

5 minutes ago, jammied said:

As I say, location wise, looking at Shardlow or Sawley marinas (Nottinghamshire general area) Castle Marina is more than I want to pay... 

 

I might pop into Sawley marina tomorrow and find out a bit more. 

 

For Sawley, unless the boat is on the hardstanding, you will require a CRT licence, I don't know about Shardlow Marina but I suspect it is the same there.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, Slim said:

You are joking. Ignore my post I pushed the wrong button.

I started to reply seriously but something went wrong.

If I look at the costs over the last 4 years it's nearer £8000 per year!

As an indication, NOT TYPICAL BUT FACTUAL. This week, yes week, major problem with stern gear that will cost circa £400 parts, plus labour, not a DIY job say £200. plus slipping, say £400 plus odds and sods so if I see change out of 1 K I'll be lucky.

Oh, as an other indication of costs, earlier today issue with Whale Gulper, the joker valve, not available as an individual item only in overhaul kit. £18.87.

Since getting the boat 23 years ago I can count on one hand how many times I've paid for someone to work on it. Indeed I fitted it out completely from a bare shell.

 

Sorry if I seem to be ranting but people who think owning a boat is cheap are living in cloud cuckoo land  

 

By comparison (and probably tempting fate) my maintenance costs over the last 6 years have been quite reasonable, although like you I've done most of the work myself. A couple of new or reconditioned alternators (about £80 a shot from the place in Daventry, and £20 for a new alternator regulator from some guy in Sandbach) a new water pump (engine) for about £150, a couple of new domestic water pumps at about £80 a shot and a new battery cut off switch for about £40. The biggest hit I've had recently was two years ago where I had to pay £570 to get the Eberspacher fixed.

[Slim]

15 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

By comparison (and probably tempting fate) my maintenance costs over the last 6 years have been quite reasonable, although like you I've done most of the work myself. A couple of new or reconditioned alternators (about £80 a shot from the place in Daventry, and £20 for a new alternator regulator from some guy in Sandbach) a new water pump (engine) for about £150, a couple of new domestic water pumps at about £80 a shot and a new battery cut off switch for about £40. The biggest hit I've had recently was two years ago where I had to pay £570 to get the Eberspacher fixed.

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear the 8K per year was overall running costs including moorings etc but excluding cruising costs.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

9 minutes ago, Slim said:

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear the 8K per year was overall running costs including moorings etc but excluding cruising costs.

That sounds quite an expensive year. When I add up my annual costs including diesel(£1000 ish), gas (£188),mooring (£720),licence (£950), servicing(£250) and the occasional bigger repairs (£???) plus blacking every three years (£233 pa)  it comes in at about half that figure.

[ditchcrawler]

22 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

That sounds quite an expensive year. When I add up my annual costs including diesel(£1000 ish), gas (£188),mooring (£720),licence (£950), servicing(£250) and the occasional bigger repairs (£???) plus blacking every three years (£233 pa)  it comes in at about half that figure.

I thought my moorings were cheap but they are about double that

[MtB]

 

2 hours ago, jammied said:

about 50 years, I am looking at boats made in the 70s. 

 

Not too bothered about the inside right now, more the reasonable cost range of making sure the hull is safe and not liable to take on water at any point, if kept stationary in a marina.

 

Seeing as no-one has answered your original question yet, £25,000 should get you a scruffy but basically sound 70s boat.

 

Edit to add:

 

I took your to be asking how much such a boat would cost to buy too, but on re-reading, possibly not. 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Mike the Boilerman
Duplicate post bug strikes again!

[Slim]

21 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

That sounds quite an expensive year. When I add up my annual costs including diesel(£1000 ish), gas (£188),mooring (£720),licence (£950), servicing(£250) and the occasional bigger repairs (£???) plus blacking every three years (£233 pa)  it comes in at about half that figure.

To be honest I don't think it was . I  didn't include either diesel or gas. Equally apart from the stern gear none of mty costs in recent years  have come as any great surprise. What about the things you buy without thinking? Paint, ropes, replacement fenders, batteries, nuts, bolts ,screws. Few of those things cost much but add them up and they may well amount to a significant amount. 

I love my boat but ' it 'ain't cheap ?

7 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Seeing as no-one has answered your original question yet, £25,000 should get you a scruffy but basically sound 70s boat.

 

 

Was it? If so sorry for going off on a tangent

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Seeing as no-one has answered your original question yet, £25,000 should get you a scruffy but basically sound 70s boat.

 

I was a little more optimistic in Post #12

 

You could probably get a boat that floats that needs £10,000 spending on it for about £10,000 - £15,000, or buy a boat that just needs fitting out and modernising for £20,000

[Naughty Cal]

Pick a number. Double it. Add 100% then times it by ten.

 

At that point you might be somewhere quite close to the cost of  maintaining a boat for a year.

[koukouvagia]

I don't suppose it's any help for the OP when I say that over the past ten years my annual costs have been between £5K and £10K - and that's not counting major work to the hull and back cabin.

 

eta:  I see the specific question was how much does it cost to keep a boat afloat.  In 2014 it cost me £2.5K to deal with a weak spot in the hull.  This was simply remedial work to keep the boat afloat. 

Three years later major work was required which cost many times that sum.

Edited July 22, 2019 by koukouvagia

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I was a little more optimistic in Post #12

 

You could probably get a boat that floats that needs £10,000 spending on it for about £10,000 - £15,000, or buy a boat that just needs fitting out and modernising for £20,000

 

The OP does later however, specify a boat with a good hull and a a working galley and bathroom. So basically wants a sound boat that just needs a bit of repainting! No mention of engines so far but if pressed I bet he would want this to be in good working order too.

 

But if not, maybe a butty might be a good option. There are usually one or two passable butties on the market for £15k or so but I've just looked and the price of butties seems to have truly rocketed recently.

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Pick a number. Double it. Add 100% then times it by ten.

 

At that point you might be somewhere quite close to the cost of  maintaining a boat for a year.

 

 

NC seems to be losing the plot recently. This is clearly unhelpful rubbish, best ignored. 

 

 

[Murflynn]

2 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Pick a number. Double it. Add 100% then times it by ten.

 

At that point you might be somewhere quite close to the cost of  maintaining a boat for a year.

salty boaters stand in a shower and tear up £50 notes.

 

canal boaters crawl into a tube and watch £10 notes disappearing into the waste disposal unit.

[Naughty Cal]

4 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

I don't suppose it's any help for the OP when I say that over the past ten years my annual costs have been between £5K and £10K - and that's not counting major work to the hull and back cabin.

 

eta:  I see the specific question was how much does it cost to keep a boat afloat.  In 2014 it cost me £2.5K to deal with a weak spot in the hull.  This was simply remedial work to keep the boat afloat. 

Three years later major work was required which cost many times that sum.

That is pretty much in line with what we have spent on ours every year for the last 11 years. The average is about £7.5k each year.

 

Would be nice to have that money in the bank now 

2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

salty boaters stand in a shower and tear up £50 notes.

 

canal boaters crawl into a tube and watch £10 notes disappearing into the waste disposal unit.

Yep. Lots of £50 notes!

[Neil2]

The scores of scruffy looking boats all over the network demonstrate that very few boat owners embrace the true costs of owning a boat over the long term.  

 

There are a couple of early 1970's boats in our marina moored side by side.  One of them I know has been owned from new and is immaculate.  The other is the typical example of an old boat that has slipped gradually to the bottom of the market and looks very tired indeed.  I had a chat with the owners recently and they explained how it was up for sale, I think they have just become weary of mopping up (literally) the results of previous owners neglect.

 

Buy an old boat of this nature and you either accept and live with the downward spiral or get ready to spend a ridiculous amount of money which you will never get back.  

 

My advice, for what it's worth, to prospective boat owners these days is forget all about length, layout, even what the thing is made out of.  Buy the very best example of a boat that fits your budget and don't skimp on maintenance. T hat way you will actually enjoy boating and eventually you will get your money back.

 

I just wish I could take my own advice..

 

 

[jammied]

21 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Seeing as no-one has answered your original question yet, £25,000 should get you a scruffy but basically sound 70s boat.

 

Edit to add:

 

I took your to be asking how much such a boat would cost to buy too, but on re-reading, possibly not. 

 

I kinda needed that bit of info as well! Thanks 

7 hours ago, Neil2 said:

The scores of scruffy looking boats all over the network demonstrate that very few boat owners embrace the true costs of owning a boat over the long term.  

 

There are a couple of early 1970's boats in our marina moored side by side.  One of them I know has been owned from new and is immaculate.  The other is the typical example of an old boat that has slipped gradually to the bottom of the market and looks very tired indeed.  I had a chat with the owners recently and they explained how it was up for sale, I think they have just become weary of mopping up (literally) the results of previous owners neglect.

 

Buy an old boat of this nature and you either accept and live with the downward spiral or get ready to spend a ridiculous amount of money which you will never get back.  

 

My advice, for what it's worth, to prospective boat owners these days is forget all about length, layout, even what the thing is made out of.  Buy the very best example of a boat that fits your budget and don't skimp on maintenance. T hat way you will actually enjoy boating and eventually you will get your money back.

 

I just wish I could take my own advice..

So short story is, if I get a cheap 70s boat, I have to expect high maintenance costs?

 

How much big stuff can be done in one go to realistically get a low risk of needing big jobs in in the next 6-8 yers?

7 hours ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

 

[LadyG]

Buying an older boat is a higher risk than a newer one, but to reduce the risk factor, personally, I would be looking at those which are in really good condition, a few quality fittings, well maintained, with a good solid fuel stove [make sure it is properly installed]. You will pay more than buying any sort of "project".  A project is probably not a suitable boat for a liveaboard, nor anyone who has little or no experience of boats, and a good stash of cash.

A good boat still needs to be surveyed,  be prepared to walk away: if there are problems but the surveyor is still positive, you re-negotiate the price to cover the cost. Remember to add on the cost of hauling out [x2?] , launching, etc etc.  Brokers will have a contract which include dealing with the offer and the survey, it will not be "buyer friendly"

A thousand pounds is  a drop in the ocean when it comes to purchasing a boat. You may be prepared to do some work yourself, but you may need to employ a good boat electrician if, for example, you need to upgrade the electrics, fitting solar, solar controller, new batteries.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by LadyG

[dmr]

You can get a rough cheap old boat and do minimal maintenance and it will probably stay afloat for many many years, especially if you don't move it. If it does leak slightly you can plug the hole with a suitable epoxy putty and get a few more years out of it. I am aware of people living quite happily on such boats.

 

All boats got down in value, but a badly maintained boat will likely go down in value much more quickly so you are sort of paying in a different way. Once your boat gets down to scrap value then it might not go down in value any more, though boats can have "negative" value by becoming a liability. If your boat sinks in a marina then they might be after you to pay the salvage costs, but if your morals allow you then you could just disappear.

 

I am aware of one boat less than twenty years old that has already lost almost all of its value due to hard use (rented out liveabord) and zero maintenance.

 

..............Dave

[Momac]

I keep lots of receipts for the boat as proof that it has been put to use and maintained but don’t really like to add up the total.

I don’t factor in finance for the boat purchase but in fact it remains about static which means it is depreciating by the rate of inflation while I am receiving no interest on the capital. I think of it as money stored in boat form.

If we are including standing costs such as the home mooring , river license , insurance and annual maintenance  excluding fuel and other cost when cruising I would say £5k per year on average covers it.

If I didn’t have a boat the money would be spent on some other thing such as holidays abroad!  What’s the fun in that?

[Neil2]

20 hours ago, jammied said:

I kinda needed that bit of info as well! Thanks 

So short story is, if I get a cheap 70s boat, I have to expect high maintenance costs?

 

How much big stuff can be done in one go to realistically get a low risk of needing big jobs in in the next 6-8 yers?

 

No.  We're talking about sub £20k boats here, where the idea of "maintenance" is long gone, sailed away over the horizon.  What you are faced with is restoration costs, which are likely to be substantial, way more than the boat will ever be worth.  Unless it has some aesthetic or historic value.  If you buy a sub £20k boat and just try keep it as it is, all that will happen is the boat will deteriorate further.  Now, that may be fine if you are prepared to live with it, and at some point someone else may come along and buy the boat in its dilapidated state, but you will lose money, for certain.   

 

If you really are struggling cash wise the best thing to do is look for a "write off", something that you can get for peanuts because it's been sunk, or a surveyor has condemned it.  I met a guy a few weeks ago that had taken on such a boat and it looked amazing - after he had spent the best part of two years renovating it.  But if you don't put a price on your time then that's one way to get a cheap boat.

[canals are us?]

I bought my 1999 50ft Liverpool trad nearly 7 years ago for 25k and have to say it's been great.

 

I'm self employed on a small less than 10k a year income and find the boat perfect for me. I probably wouldn't get a mortgage for a house and couldn't afford a monthly rent.

My boat costs are reasonable.

 

£2,400 for residential mooring in Midlands Marina. 

£800 boat licence.

Blacking every 2-3 years £500.

Gas bottle one a year, last one cost £28.50. Just use gas hob.

Shore power £10 a week. Use mini oven. Washer/dryer and dishwasher.

Insurance £150 a year

Heating by multifuel stove £20 a week. Plus £60 worth of diesel a winter for webasto.

 

I have updated most of the interior adding my stamp to it mainly galley and walk through bathroom and updating electrics as added inverter, solar etc.

Just finished installing an engineered oak floor in galley, bathroom and bedroom and a new thetford loo as old C200 loo well past it! 

The more you can do the better. September my boat is getting blacked and new anodes fitted as anodes nearly gone at nearly 7 years old.

 

My advice is if buying a smaller boat gets you a better, newer boat go for that. I could probably live on a 40ft trad if I had too.

 

Good luck with you search.

 

James.

Edited July 23, 2019 by canals are us?

[jammied]

2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

What you are faced with is restoration costs, which are likely to be substantial, way more than the boat will ever be worth.

That makes sense. Thing is, what I might be paying on the boat I likely won't be paying on rent. I am not too bothered about recouping the boat cost, just whether I can make sure that high maintenance costs are not a yearly thing.

 

If I to initially spend a lot to get in a good state but then know that I won't have too much too it too often once I have done that, I probably will have got what I want. 

[mrsmelly]

11 minutes ago, jammied said:

That makes sense. Thing is, what I might be paying on the boat I likely won't be paying on rent. I am not too bothered about recouping the boat cost, just whether I can make sure that high maintenance costs are not a yearly thing.

 

If I to initially spend a lot to get in a good state but then know that I won't have too much too it too often once I have done that, I probably will have got what I want. 

Much depends on your budget. I have access to a friends boat soon to come on to the market. Its solid and well maintained and although an old boat built in 97 its little used with a mint interior and has never been through a lock. Needs some cabin paint but not too bad.So in fairness whoever buys it will have to spend zero on it from day one unless they want to polish it.

Buying a rough boat will cost more to rectify than finding a little more money in the outset.