Bosley Lock 8 - Any known issues or recent works done/

[alan_fincher]

Once finally freed from the Rochdale, and our recent trip back to our home moorings, we had very significant problems trying to get through Bosley Lock 8.

 

The coping stones towards the bottom gate end of the lock only have 7 feet and half an inch between them, making this lock at least 3 inches narrower than others in the flight.

 

This is normally small enough to cause problems to working boats and ex-working boats, which were often actually constructed to exactly that width.  Even with no "middle age spread" whatsoever a nominally 7' 0.5" boat will often really struggle to pass a lock where that is the exact distance between the coping stones.

I have tried researching known problems with the width of this particular lock, but largely drawn a blank.  This surprises me, because unless a very recent movement of the coping stones has taken place, I would expect to turn up evidence of other boats having had issues - plenty of boats are as wide as ours, we believe.

Obviously i intend to report this problem to CRT, but before I do, I am asking if anybody has heard of any issues at all at this lock.

 

My researches did turn up evidence that there was a plan to grout it, and the date that might have been going to occur got shifted about, but I could find no firm evidence whether there have been any grouting operations or not.  Notwithstanding Magpie Patrick's suggestion that grouting cannot in itself move coping stones, I still wonder if some attempt to fix something at this particular lock may have actually caused it to recently become at least 3" narrower than others we measured in the flight.

I'd be most grateful for anything anybody knows about this lock

[Captain Pegg]

@magpie patrick did not say that grouting can not move coping stones. He was discussing the use of polyurethane foam. Grout is a different material and one that is far denser in its liquid state. Was it just the coping stones that were tight or the whole depth of the lock?

 

JP

[alan_fincher]

The coping stones are tight, (understatement!).  More so at the top of their height than the bottom.  If you can get below them, then the lock is wide enough, but certainly still not generous.

[nipper]

The only issue we had last week when Largo came down was a rather overbearing Volunteer locky. the locks were fine with not too much water jumping onto Largo's counter. 

The locky seemed to spend his time walking up and down the flight giving each person that was working the gates a bollocking about this and that. he had a go at Mary, which i though was a bit brave, seeing that she was the one with a windlass in her hand, he then looked over the lock edge to me, obviously thought better of it and fled his winging way to the next boat down stream who he gave the hirers a right bollicking about not putting the pawl over when they had finnished winding. i thought he was a complete waste of time and only served to wind up every boater on the flight.

Back to topic, I cant remember seeing anytrhing untoward when we came down!

 

Nipper

 

[Captain Pegg]

31 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The coping stones are tight, (understatement!).  More so at the top of their height than the bottom.  If you can get below them, then the lock is wide enough, but certainly still not generous.

Which suggest the wall(s) are rotating around the base. If this is the result of ground instability then grouting would be a potential solution to arrest that movement. Grouting is a well established technique for stabilising weak earthworks, it’s about more than just filling voids. Therefore if CRT have considered grouting it suggests they may be aware of recent movement. I think it’s far more likely that is the problem than it is the result of any remedial work. Contrary to popular belief CRT do employ people with full professional competence to manage their structures. Definitely one to report.

 

JP

[alan_fincher]

It will be reported, but I'm keen to know if there is "history" that others are aware of, and that we are not.

Whether I am prepared to say just how extreme the measures were that were required to get us  through it though, I'm not so certain.  Initially it looked quite impossible, and some very "creative" things were done, (none of which could have damaged the structure of the lock, I would add!).

[David Mack]

Many moons ago we hitched a lift on another Large Northwich with the single handed owner. Coming up Camp Hill locks it transpired that BW had recently rebuilt the coping using those large bullnose blue bricks, but had omitted to ensure that the copings did not overhang the brickwork below. As the boat rose in the lock the top guard caught under a length of the copings, which pivotted up until they were almost vertical!

[Captain Pegg]

33 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It will be reported, but I'm keen to know if there is "history" that others are aware of, and that we are not.

Whether I am prepared to say just how extreme the measures were that were required to get us  through it though, I'm not so certain.  Initially it looked quite impossible, and some very "creative" things were done, (none of which could have damaged the structure of the lock, I would add!).

They may respond by pointing out that the available width permits passage of craft up to and including the maximum craft dimensions. ?

Edited July 21, 2019 by Captain Pegg

[system 4-50]

58 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

It will be reported, but I'm keen to know if there is "history" that others are aware of, and that we are not.

Whether I am prepared to say just how extreme the measures were that were required to get us  through it though, I'm not so certain.  Initially it looked quite impossible, and some very "creative" things were done, (none of which could have damaged the structure of the lock, I would add!).

Do you have a "friend" who had to resort to extreme procedures in a similar situation?

[magpie patrick]

14 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Obviously i intend to report this problem to CRT, but before I do, I am asking if anybody has heard of any issues at all at this lock.

 

My researches did turn up evidence that there was a plan to grout it, and the date that might have been going to occur got shifted about, but I could find no firm evidence whether there have been any grouting operations or not.  Notwithstanding Magpie Patrick's suggestion that grouting cannot in itself move coping stones, I still wonder if some attempt to fix something at this particular lock may have actually caused it to recently become at least 3" narrower than others we measured in the flight.

I'd be most grateful for anything anybody knows about this lock

I am nothing like as familiar with Bosley as with Marple, I grew up yards from Marple locks, remember them reopening, and as Dad still lives in the house I grew up in, I still walk then half a dozen times a year. I've lost count of how many times I've been through them on other people;'s boats, one one memorable occasion I did them five times in one day. 

 

I know Bosley well enough though, having taken half a dozen different boats through - they have never been "tight" - whilst any boat I've steered in the area would be a modern narrow boat and therefore in the 6 foot 9 - 6 foot 11 range, I would notice ungenerous clearance, especially in Ripple which was at the wider end of this spectrum. I could enter Bosley locks without touching the sides every time - going up and down - which means the locks were probably 7 foot 4 to 7 foot 6 wide. 

 

Further, Dad and his friends are embedded in the boating community up there, (although they're both too old to go boating anymore) some of whom have historic boats, even historic wooden ones. Whilst I'd make the point that only the GU built narrow boats OVER 7 feet wide, a narrow built 7 feet wide 80 years ago isn't going to be that width now, and even of it is, half an inch is insufficient clearance. To cut a long story short, if one of these guys had got stuck here (one is Dad's friends son, another is same man's nephew) then I'd probably have heard about it. 

 

This is new and needs reporting, and perhaps a push is needed to make sure that CRT don't keep squeezing the system - 

[Mike Todd]

We came down Bosley this afternoon but unfortunately I did not see this thread until just now otherwise I would have taken more specific photos. (We are 60ft standard new build width)

 

However, because of the other thread about Marple, I was looking at the stonework with greater interest than usual and I did particularly notice Lock 11 where the top course (coping stones) and the next course down are definitely set in by a couple of inches either side. The second layer shows signs that at some stage, looks a while back, someone has chiselled away at the lower part of the second course in order to reduce the risk of boats catching on the way up (one of the reasons I noticed after our experience a few days ago). My photo also is not very good except to be able to remind me which lock it was.

 

What I also noticed was that all of the locks had been pointed at some stage but that most of it has now fallen away. However, that does expose the joints which are remarkably tight so I guess there is little for the pointing to grab hold of. There were only a few places in the entire flight where much water was spraying back out as the lock emptied. I doubt whether grouting or pointing is likely to be a useful move with these locks, at least in general.

 

Lock 2, I think, was a bit leaky at the top and the stern deck did get a bit wet! Fortunately with a Tyler Wilson stern, any such water does not tend to go into the engine hole but into the weed chute. The rest were OK. At one of the bottom three (it might be 12 but I'm not sure) the pound above was rather full and going over the gates before we went set it. However, after setting the lock the level was down and did overtop whilst we were in it.

[alan_fincher]

10 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

This is new and needs reporting, and perhaps a push is needed to make sure that CRT don't keep squeezing the system - 

 

I've now reported it, so will feed back anything they say.

 

I wasn't sure about detailing the very extreme measures we had to take to get through it, but in the end I did.  I'm not sure what their reaction to that will be, but I felt if I had just said "we got through with difficulty" that there was a danger that they would think that was relatively OK, and not a major problem.

[GUMPY]

16 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

 

I've now reported it, so will feed back anything they say.

 

I wasn't sure about detailing the very extreme measures we had to take to get through it, but in the end I did.  I'm not sure what their reaction to that will be, but I felt if I had just said "we got through with difficulty" that there was a danger that they would think that was relatively OK, and not a major problem.

Sounds like you need to detail your little adventure here

 

[Tuscan]

Doesn’t coal boat Alton transit the flight on a regular basis ?

[alan_fincher]

4 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

Doesn’t coal boat Alton transit the flight on a regular basis ?

Not recently, apparently.  Though Halsall has.

 

They are not all the same width, though. 

[Señor Chris]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Sounds like you need to detail your little adventure here

Sounds like the K-Y jelly had to come out...

 

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Not recently, apparently.  Though Halsall has.

 

They are not all the same width, though. 

How did they get from the Caldon to High Lane, Poynton, Marple and then Bugsworth?

 

see http://nbalchemy.blogspot.com/2019/07/poynton.html

[alan_fincher]

16 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

How did they get from the Caldon to High Lane, Poynton, Marple and then Bugsworth?

 

see http://nbalchemy.blogspot.com/2019/07/poynton.html

Presumably by going up through Bosley locks, not down through them?

 

We would have been able to go up  through this lock, as it is wide enough when empty, and at the top end when full.

[Captain Pegg]

16 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

How did they get from the Caldon to High Lane, Poynton, Marple and then Bugsworth?

 

see http://nbalchemy.blogspot.com/2019/07/poynton.html

The question was whether Alton transited Bosley regularly, not whether it has done it at all recently.

 

JP

[Captain Pegg]

5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Presumably by going up through Bosley locks, not down through them?

 

We would have been able to go up  through this lock, as it is wide enough when empty, and at the top end when full.

Does Flamingo have a bit of spread at the front end? I recall you barely got into the chamber of Napton no 9 before the front stuck.

 

JP

[alan_fincher]

7 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

The question was whether Alton transited Bosley regularly, not whether it has done it at all recently.

 

Well for completeness, I had checked suitability of the route with the operators of Alton before attempting it with Flamingo, (though my concerns were not about Bosley, originally).  The answer I got said "Alton hasn't been down Bosley for over a year now" - I didn't ask about going in the other direction, because we weren't planning to.

[alan_fincher]

Just now, Captain Pegg said:

Does Flamingo have a bit of spread at the front end? I recall you barely got into the chamber of Napton no 9 before the front stuck.

 

JP

Yes, the widest bit is over the front end guards - not that unusual on these boats.  For Flamingo, if that goes through a gap, the rest of the boat  usually will - it doesn't have excess girth in front of the engine room, as some seem to.  We travelled recently with the back end of "Saltaire" (another Large Northwich motor, with a new front rend grafted on), and that got stuck between things that the front end of flamingo did, but the back end of  Flamingo would pass through easily.  They all differ in some way or another - 80-something years of hard use has almost guaranteed that!

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Presumably by going up through Bosley locks, not down through them?

 

We would have been able to go up  through this lock, as it is wide enough when empty, and at the top end when full.

They passed us again going down when we were at Macclesfield.

[alan_fincher]

1 hour ago, Mike Todd said:

They passed us again going down when we were at Macclesfield.

Dunno,

 

As I said in a previous post the owner and operator of Alton told me " Alton hasn't been down Bosley for over a year now ".

 

That would seem odd, if it actually had.....

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Dunno,

 

As I said in a previous post the owner and operator of Alton told me " Alton hasn't been down Bosley for over a year now ".

 

That would seem odd, if it actually had.....

Perhaps they turn around between Macc and Bosley?