More Lock Etiquette

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

Presumably that only works on the way up?

On the way up the offside bottom gate often fully closes as the water is displaced out of the lock and pushing past it. Likewise leaving the top gate the same thing happens with the water trying to get back into the lock

[Mike Todd]

41 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

Presumably that only works on the way up?

A good test of boat handling is to take a fairly long (but not full length) boat down and out of a wide lock from behind closed gate, when another boat has exited the open one. Without touching the closed gate. (I'm not recommending it as a standard course of action, especially for some boaters)

[Rob-M]

2 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

A good test of boat handling is to take a fairly long (but not full length) boat down and out of a wide lock from behind closed gate, when another boat has exited the open one. Without touching the closed gate. (I'm not recommending it as a standard course of action, especially for some boaters)

And without using a bow thruster.

[Chris Williams]

3 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

Presumably that only works on the way up?

Err - yes.

[Chris Williams]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

On the way up the offside bottom gate often fully closes as the water is displaced out of the lock

Used to do that with the engine until I got told off for stirring up rubbish to block the gate.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Have to say that whatever the ignorance or otherwise shown by others, I really cannot be bothered to get het up about it these days. Other than the totally unjustified abuse, I don't think I would have even noticed how the other boaters had left the lock on the OP, provided a gate was left open for me to get into the lock, it would all be fine by me. For truly staggering ignorance (which I also didn't respond to) I have memories of approaching Whitley Lock from the upstream side on the Aire and Calder a couple of years ago. I was just coming under the motorway bridge and in clear view of the lock when the cruiser ahead of me shut the lock gates and then began draining the lock. I do appreciate that cruisers aren't that keen to share locks with us steel narrowboats and since the lock is question is only 200 feet long it would have been a squeeze (irony alert). I don't see the point in spoiling my enjoyment in getting bothered by others actions that don't cause me any physical harm, if it takes longer.... it takes longer.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Wanderer Vagabond

[cuthound]

20 hours ago, Lily Rose said:

Presumably that only works on the way up?

 

I guess it depends on how much speed you can build up before hitting the gates ??

[Mike Todd]

21 hours ago, Rob-M said:

And without using a bow thruster.

What's one of those?

[Wanderer Vagabond]

It's funny how this lock etiquette lark comes up on the broad locks isn't it? I came down Hatton today and, as is usual for me and my crew, we close all paddles and shut all gates on the way down, knowing we were being followed about 3 locks back by pair coming down (we were single in the locks). We were told this by volunteer lockies who initially said there was one boat coming down behind us, for which we would have waited, but when they corrected that to two boats following we pressed on. As I was finishing one lock and crew had gone onto the next, she contacted me to tell me that there was a boat coming up and to leave the gate open. By this time the lead crew of the boat behind had caught up and was preparing to open the top paddle. I told her that there was a boat coming up to which her reply was,"There are two coming down",and as I left the lock, began closing the gates that I had deliberately left open. I was trying to impress that this was going to be a waste of a lockful of water, but apparently she wasn't having any of it despite the fact that her boat was still in the lock above. 

 

Whilst I said I don't get het up about such things, my 'helpfulness' may take a bit of a dive. From that point onwards, since the following boat crew didn't seem to want to assist another boater (by waiting for him) I decided I didn't want to assist them by closing the bottom gates of the lock, in fact made a point of opening both gates to leave the lock on the way out. It is quite shocking just how much time that gets wasted by having to shut both bottom gates on broad locks before filling them isn't it? Up to that point the pair following us had been catching us up, from that point onwards they weren't, but at least we had less work to do.

 

Just as a point of interest, these were not hire boats, they were privately owned boats who, perhaps, should know better.

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

It's funny how this lock etiquette lark comes up on the broad locks isn't it? I came down Hatton today and, as is usual for me and my crew, we close all paddles and shut all gates on the way down, knowing we were being followed about 3 locks back by pair coming down (we were single in the locks). We were told this by volunteer lockies who initially said there was one boat coming down behind us, for which we would have waited, but when they corrected that to two boats following we pressed on. As I was finishing one lock and crew had gone onto the next, she contacted me to tell me that there was a boat coming up and to leave the gate open. By this time the lead crew of the boat behind had caught up and was preparing to open the top paddle. I told her that there was a boat coming up to which her reply was,"There are two coming down",and as I left the lock, began closing the gates that I had deliberately left open. I was trying to impress that this was going to be a waste of a lockful of water, but apparently she wasn't having any of it despite the fact that her boat was still in the lock above. 

 

Whilst I said I don't get het up about such things, my 'helpfulness' may take a bit of a dive. From that point onwards, since the following boat crew didn't seem to want to assist another boater (by waiting for him) I decided I didn't want to assist them by closing the bottom gates of the lock, in fact made a point of opening both gates to leave the lock on the way out. It is quite shocking just how much time that gets wasted by having to shut both bottom gates on broad locks before filling them isn't it? Up to that point the pair following us had been catching us up, from that point onwards they weren't, but at least we had less work to do.

 

Just as a point of interest, these were not hire boats, they were privately owned boats who, perhaps, should know better.

And on reflection don’t you think maybe that was a bit daft? If you genuinely don’t get het up about such things surely you’d have carried on boating how you normally do.

 

Closing gates and paddles on exit isn’t really helping anyone. It’s just what is required. Pretty much everybody manages it. Drawing a paddle at the top on exit is helping. Many folk do that too.

 

JP

[dmr]

My favorite, reported here previously but worth a repeat.

I had filled a lock and left one top paddle up. Went round the bend to collect my boat from its overnight mooring to drive into the lock.

Got back to lock to find a hire crew had both bottom paddles up, plus my single top paddle still up. Gently pointed out that it was my lock as I had it full with a paddle up.

They said, .... You've only got one paddle up, we've got two paddles up, so its our lock

 

 

............Dave

[Wanderer Vagabond]

3 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

And on reflection don’t you think maybe that was a bit daft? If you genuinely don’t get het up about such things surely you’d have carried on boating how you normally do.

 

Closing gates and paddles on exit isn’t really helping anyone. It’s just what is required. Pretty much everybody manages it. Drawing a paddle at the top on exit is helping. Many folk do that too.

 

JP

I am more than happy to draw paddles to assist boats coming down behind me, and usually do but when they choose to ignore reasonable advice not to waste water by turning a lock against a boat coming up, my wish to be helpful sort of evaporates. It does after all make less work for me not to have to bother shutting the gates (I did still close the paddles). Closing gates and paddles isn't a requisite, working boats were known to leave the gates open since there was the chance that they might be saving the next boat some time (if they were coming from the right direction) but I accept that it is current etiquette and am normally happy to comply, but not for someone who wants to waste water.

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I am more than happy to draw paddles to assist boats coming down behind me, and usually do but when they choose to ignore reasonable advice not to waste water by turning a lock against a boat coming up, my wish to be helpful sort of evaporates. It does after all make less work for me not to have to bother shutting the gates (I did still close the paddles). Closing gates and paddles isn't a requisite, working boats were known to leave the gates open since there was the chance that they might be saving the next boat some time (if they were coming from the right direction) but I accept that it is current etiquette and am normally happy to comply, but not for someone who wants to waste water.

What working boats did half a century and more ago has nothing to do with anything. The requirement today is to close gates and paddles. I have no reason to doubt the other boaters were being wasteful but if they saw that as OK all you can do is hope to educate them. What you did wasn’t to stop helping them; it was to deliberately hinder them. If I’d have been single handed I might have asked them to go ahead on the agreement they would turn a paddle for me. No fun in single handing trying to keep ahead of faster boats. Thankfully it’s actually quite rare.

 

There’s every chance they are now sat in a pub telling folk about the selfish bloke that left the lock gates open deliberately.

 

JP

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

There’s every chance they are now sat in a pub telling folk about the selfish bloke that left the lock gates open deliberately.

 

JP

While the "selfish bloke" is on a forum telling folk about the selfish crew who wasted a lock of water.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

What working boats did half a century and more ago has nothing to do with anything. The requirement today is to close gates and paddles. I have no reason to doubt the other boaters were being wasteful but if they saw that as OK all you can do is hope to educate them. What you did wasn’t to stop helping them; it was to deliberately hinder them. If I’d have been single handed I might have asked them to go ahead on the agreement they would turn a paddle for me. No fun in single handing trying to keep ahead of faster boats. Thankfully it’s actually quite rare.

 

There’s every chance they are now sat in a pub telling folk about the selfish bloke that left the lock gates open deliberately.

 

JP

There needs to be a small correction there, stopping helping them was precisely what I did. For half of the flight I had made a point of shutting everything down (bear in mind they were 3 locks behind me when I was first made aware of them) which enabled them to progress faster and, as I said they were catching me up over a distance of about 6 locks. Had they been equally helpful to the guy going up I would have continued and, should they have eventually caught up, I would have let them past. However given their concentration on the progress they were making, even if it delayed other's progress, suggests to me that hoping for them to lift a paddle for me might have been a forlorn hope so, to be honest, I didn't have any real incentive to assist them any further. If they have to work harder shutting the gates, it just makes my work easier, it cuts both ways. There were more of them than there were of us, let them do the work if they don't wish to assist others.

[adam1uk]

10 hours ago, dmr said:

My favorite, reported here previously but worth a repeat.

I had filled a lock and left one top paddle up. Went round the bend to collect my boat from its overnight mooring to drive into the lock.

Got back to lock to find a hire crew had both bottom paddles up, plus my single top paddle still up. Gently pointed out that it was my lock as I had it full with a paddle up.

They said, .... You've only got one paddle up, we've got two paddles up, so its our lock

 

 

............Dave

The other day on the Stratford I had walked ahead to the next lock and found a boat having just left, including closing the gate.  I immediately pulled the gate open again, but while I was doing it I heard the clicking of a paddle at the other end of the lock.  I called out to the boater, who said, I’m sorry I thought you were fishing.

[MtB]

Just now, adam1uk said:

The other day on the Stratford I had walked ahead to the next lock and found a boat having just left, including closing the gate.  I immediately pulled the gate open again, but while I was doing it I heard the clicking of a paddle at the other end of the lock.  I called out to the boater, who said, I’m sorry I thought you were fishing.

 

A while back I moored on a lock landing, set the lock and opened the gate. Back to the boat, untied and set off into lock and feck moi, gate swings shut again! 'Helpful' boater on towpath saw open gate and thought "I'll shut that", lol!!

[Rob-M]

Coming out of Worcester I had prepared the first narrow lock, as I entered the lock somebody started raising a top paddle before I was in. I shouted at them to stop which they did. When I got off the boat they said sorry didn't see you coming, they hadn't noticed the open bottom gates either.

There does seem to be more boaters these days that don't bother looking and just start working their lock as soon as they arrive.

[Arthur Marshall]

Wandering Vag seems to have had a crew, so leaving all the gates open, however annoyed he'd been by the people behind, just seems an expression of egotistical and deliberate obstructionism, as well, in fact, of giving a thoroughly bad example to the boat behind, who, having learnt from him, may well never close a gate behind them again. All in all, a totally unnecessary and stupid bit of unpleasantness, deliberately designed to spoil someone else's day,and almost certain to be counterproductive in the long run. 

What commercial boats did a hundred years ago is irrelevant. These days, due to lack of maintenance, leaks, low water levels etc, we need to shut lock gates. He's just taught some inexperienced person the opposite. Clot. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Wandering Vag seems to have had a crew, so leaving all the gates open, however annoyed he'd been by the people behind, just seems an expression of egotistical and deliberate obstructionism, as well, in fact, of giving a thoroughly bad example to the boat behind, who, having learnt from him, may well never close a gate behind them again. All in all, a totally unnecessary and stupid bit of unpleasantness, deliberately designed to spoil someone else's day,and almost certain to be counterproductive in the long run. 

What commercial boats did a hundred years ago is irrelevant. These days, due to lack of maintenance, leaks, low water levels etc, we need to shut lock gates. He's just taught some inexperienced person the opposite. Clot. 

These 'inexperienced' boaters were two private boats and obviously with enough crew to send one on to the next lock to set it for them whilst they were still in the lock above. That was what she saw her job to be and she was going to do it whatever, whether it involved turning a lock against a boat coming up or not. They already needed to learn some etiquette before my intervention.

 

I should say it is due to the current low water levels that my irritation was caused and it's not helped at all when people wilfully waste water despite being advised against it. Essentially they were taking two lockfuls out of the pound above the lock unnecessarily.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Wanderer Vagabond

[ditchcrawler]

11 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

There needs to be a small correction there, stopping helping them was precisely what I did. For half of the flight I had made a point of shutting everything down (bear in mind they were 3 locks behind me when I was first made aware of them) which enabled them to progress faster and, as I said they were catching me up over a distance of about 6 locks. Had they been equally helpful to the guy going up I would have continued and, should they have eventually caught up, I would have let them past. However given their concentration on the progress they were making, even if it delayed other's progress, suggests to me that hoping for them to lift a paddle for me might have been a forlorn hope so, to be honest, I didn't have any real incentive to assist them any further. If they have to work harder shutting the gates, it just makes my work easier, it cuts both ways. There were more of them than there were of us, let them do the work if they don't wish to assist others.

Sorry I am slightly confused which is not uncommon at my age. Are you saying the only reason you close the gates and drop paddles when leaving the locks is because someone is following you and you consider that is helping them?

 

[Laurie Booth]

On 20/07/2019 at 18:18, Dr Bob said:

It's an interesting point you raise Dave but it is not the normal practice of opening both gates when a single boat goes into a wide lock. 90% + of the time, only one gate is used. I agree it can damage the gate when it invariably gets hit. It is interesting thought that having done Hatton 3 times this year and Stockton many times with CRT volokies in attendance and helping, NONE has ever told us to do anything different to opening one gate. It is the norm.

I always want both gates open, try the Cairn hill flight doing one gate.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Sorry I am slightly confused which is not uncommon at my age. Are you saying the only reason you close the gates and drop paddles when leaving the locks is because someone is following you and you consider that is helping them?

 

No, what I am saying is that I stop closing the gates when people are wilfully unhelpful (I still close the paddles whatever the circumstances). It is after all far quicker and more convenient for me to empty the lock, open the gates shut the paddles and leave without bothering to shut the gates and since they seemed only interested in their own convenience, why shouldn't I?

[billS]

16 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

No, what I am saying is that I stop closing the gates when people are wilfully unhelpful (I still close the paddles whatever the circumstances). It is after all far quicker and more convenient for me to empty the lock, open the gates shut the paddles and leave without bothering to shut the gates and since they seemed only interested in their own convenience, why shouldn't I?

Closing the gates after leaving the locks (unless a boat is approaching) is a requirement set out in the CRT boaters handbook, and is now common practice. Some people don't follow this of course, but they are generally regarded as selfish, lazy arrogant gits by those who do.

[Captain Pegg]

18 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

No, what I am saying is that I stop closing the gates when people are wilfully unhelpful (I still close the paddles whatever the circumstances). It is after all far quicker and more convenient for me to empty the lock, open the gates shut the paddles and leave without bothering to shut the gates and since they seemed only interested in their own convenience, why shouldn't I?

It wasn’t even you they were being unhelpful toward but your view is that makes it OK for you to “stop being helpful” - as you insist on having it - toward them?

 

Can anyone appoint themselves to be an arbiter of such things and does the post come with a uniform?

 

JP