More Lock Etiquette

[Keeping Up]

2 hours ago, nipper said:

 

Go through one gate on the River Wey and you will be lined up and given a good talking too by the ranger. One of them would of been watching you for a while, but you will never know he or she would be there!!

It's what they are passionate about!

 

Nipper

On the Wey I use 2 gates

[dmr]

32 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Thanks for not mentioning my name. I still remember. 

 

I noticed when doing the Bingley five rise the lockies will partly open one gate and then cross and fully open the other, to discourage a single boat from exiting or entering through just the one gate. 

I still worry about that dent, its ok for you, you have so many dents, but at least you can say "don't remember that one, it was probably 100 yeas ago"

 

...............Dave

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Am I right in expecting experienced boat owners to close the offside gate if there is clearly only one boat coming into the lock? This is happening too much this year.

 

Had the oposite happen to me last week. Working our way up the Seend locks on the K&A I closed the offside top gate while the crew member on the towpath side left that gate open as there was a single narrow boat approaching. As I walked back down the lock and across the bottom gates I realised someone from the approaching (hire) boat was walking in the opposite diection order to open the gate again! I did point out that they only needed one gate, but he just smiled and carried on.

 

You can't win!

4 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Am I right in expecting experienced boat owners to close the offside gate if there is clearly only one boat coming into the lock? This is happening too much this year.

 

Had the oposite happen to me last week. Working our way up the Seend locks on the K&A I closed the offside top gate while the crew member on the towpath side left that gate open as there was a single narrow boat approaching. As I walked back down the lock and across the bottom gates I realised someone from the approaching (hire) boat was walking in the opposite diection order to open the gate again! I did point out that they only needed one gate, but he just smiled and carried on.

 

You can't win!

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

I would normally open one gate fully and then open the second gate just a little. If its perfect conditions....no wind and an easy direct approach to the lock I would consider going in through one gate on the way up. I have had a real bang going in through one gate on the Devizes flight going down, a friend who was helping opened just one gate, it was a bit windy but I have many years of boat handling so took the chance,, it was an easy approach, but a gusty wind, just touched the approach wall and deflected into the closed gate, full on reverse but still a huge bang, luckily no damage to the gate but a dent in the boat. Lesson learned.

 

Only this week was approaching a lift bridge on the South Oxford summit, all dead easy stuff, but the level was a fair bit down so must have touched something on the bottom and the boat veered off sideways, unexpected stuff happens.

 

............Dave

My experience is that most owner owned boat only open one gate. Yes, going downhill there can be a big bang if you dont get it right. Its far easier going up. I have never been told by CRT peeps to open two. I have often heard them say that only one gate can damage them, but they still only open one for you. That was the issue with my first post. If the 'norm' is to only open one gate, you would think that most peeps exiting a double lock with two boats would ask the incoming one boat if we wanted the gate shut. This time they didnt.

1 hour ago, NB_Ladybird said:

I don’t know how others feel about this but when either myself or my partner are working a lock and there is another boat waiting to enter or if we are in the process of waiting. We always go to the lock and help or offer to help those already there. Appreciate some people don’t want help as they do things their own way.

Yes, and so do we. We always go up to help as soon as we pull up.

In this case, our boat was pulling along side to offload me to go and do the lock just as the boats were exiting. We were easily within earshot of the 'gate opener' as we approached the lock landing very slowly.

[dmr]

9 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

My experience is that most owner owned boat only open one gate. Yes, going downhill there can be a big bang if you dont get it right. Its far easier going up. I have never been told by CRT peeps to open two. I have often heard them say that only one gate can damage them, but they still only open one for you. That was the issue with my first post. If the 'norm' is to only open one gate, you would think that most peeps exiting a double lock with two boats would ask the incoming one boat if we wanted the gate shut. This time they didnt.

Yes, and so do we. We always go up to help as soon as we pull up.

In this case, our boat was pulling along side to offload me to go and do the lock just as the boats were exiting. We were easily within earshot of the 'gate opener' as we approached the lock landing very slowly.

CRT people at locks are almost always volunteers, they are there to offer physical assistance if you want it (though even this is not clear cut), they are not likely to offer you advice on how to get through a lock or correct you if you do it badly, though likely will offer advice to inexperienced hire boaters. Many are experienced boaters or ex boaters, but others are just members of the public looking for something interesting to do. On a flight a good volly will observe how you go through a lock and adopt your method of working, even if its not how they would do it.

 

Many owners do only open one gate, but quite a few also use ropes when descending single locks, drop the paddles, and wind up the paddles quickly when ascending wide locks, it does not make it right. Using a single gate for an experienced and skilled boater in good conditions is fine, but adopting it as the norm is not good.

 

...............Dave

[ditchcrawler]

38 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Had the oposite happen to me last week. Working our way up the Seend locks on the K&A I closed the offside top gate while the crew member on the towpath side left that gate open as there was a single narrow boat approaching. As I walked back down the lock and across the bottom gates I realised someone from the approaching (hire) boat was walking in the opposite diection order to open the gate again! I did point out that they only needed one gate, but he just smiled and carried on.

 

You can't win!

 

Had the oposite happen to me last week. Working our way up the Seend locks on the K&A I closed the offside top gate while the crew member on the towpath side left that gate open as there was a single narrow boat approaching. As I walked back down the lock and across the bottom gates I realised someone from the approaching (hire) boat was walking in the opposite diection order to open the gate again! I did point out that they only needed one gate, but he just smiled and carried on.

 

You can't win!

Same here on the way to Chester

 

Same here on the way to Chester

[Chris Williams]

Farmers Bridge - boat leaving lock, another coming down.  I tell lady "Leave the gate for that boat".

Like speaking to a small child she says "You have to shut the gate".  And shuts it in the face of the other boat. 

Why do I bother ?

[ditchcrawler]

33 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Farmers Bridge - boat leaving lock, another coming down.  I tell lady "Leave the gate for that boat".

Like speaking to a small child she says "You have to shut the gate".  And shuts it in the face of the other boat. 

Why do I bother ?

Its happened to me as I approached a lock. the lady said the boat yard told them to make sure they closed the gates when they leave and that is what they are doing

[TheBiscuits]

My Farmer's Bridge rant is the volly coming up with a boat who had set 8 locks ahead and got cross at me when I turned some of them to suit the boat I was helping down against them.

 

The time before that I did Farmer's in under an hour, and I was very cross it took us an hour and a quarter ... wasn't I @cheshire~rose?!

[dmr]

I like it when when are approaching a lock, just a few boat lengths away, as a boat is leaving the lock, and the lock crew walking past us say "we've left the gate open for you".

 

But even better was approaching a lock in Brum and a bloke running towards saying, stop, stop, the canal is blocked by a big wooden wall.

 

...............Dave

[nipper]

11 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

On the Wey I use 2 gates

Yes, we were talking about double lock gates and only using one!

 

Please try and keep up, eh?

[Mike Todd]

17 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

My experience is that most owner owned boat only open one gate. Yes, going downhill there can be a big bang if you dont get it right. Its far easier going up. I have never been told by CRT peeps to open two. I have often heard them say that only one gate can damage them, but they still only open one for you. That was the issue with my first post. If the 'norm' is to only open one gate, you would think that most peeps exiting a double lock with two boats would ask the incoming one boat if we wanted the gate shut. This time they didnt.

Yes, and so do we. We always go up to help as soon as we pull up.

In this case, our boat was pulling along side to offload me to go and do the lock just as the boats were exiting. We were easily within earshot of the 'gate opener' as we approached the lock landing very slowly.

Some years back we were nearing Devizes only to hear that there was a closure near the bottom of the flight that would take some time to clear (like weeks) We had little option but to wind and return whence we came. It was a while before we could return to the K&A and complete our experience right through to Floating Harbour.

 

The story we heard at te time was that two boats ere descending and decided to rope together having previously worked the intermediate pounds trough a single gate. However, the steerer with the power forgot and so did the person who should have opened the second gate. With full power applied, the inevitable happened when the other  boat collided with shut gate!

 

Those with slightly longer memories might well  advise the use of both gates just as a precaution (I don't!)

[Keeping Up]

6 hours ago, nipper said:

Yes, we were talking about double lock gates and only using one!

 

Please try and keep up, eh?

If you look back at my reply which you quoted, you will see that it was specifically a reply to the post before it which was talking about the Wey

[Mike Todd]

16 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Its happened to me as I approached a lock. the lady said the boat yard told them to make sure they closed the gates when they leave and that is what they are doing

Ye, had same experience. Problem is that initial explanations have to be simple to get it in the time when folk are champing at the bit to get to their first pub in the plan. Such simple rules might fit most occasions but there will always be exceptions.  However, I would rather have newbies always shut the gate, even if in such a circumstance, rather than have to run water down (which may not be there) just because boaters left gates open especially as the last boat trough before nightfall.

[Cas446]

On 20/07/2019 at 20:34, NB_Ladybird said:

 

For me I would expect the boat crew waiting to enter the lock to approach those at it. I’ve often called down to an on coming crew how they want the lock left in readiness for them. 

Lets face it. You can pick up some good information in a brief exchange with people at a lock. 

I agree with this, but when the kids were young even with a 10 minute warning we would arrive at a lock and suddenly one of them would need a poo, suddenly require food to avoid starvation or just take forever to find wellies or to put a life jacket on. So sometimes we would just sit on the landing as either myself or my wife would be faffing around trying to organise the troops.

 

On the T&M a few years back I got abused by another boat leaving the lock for not helping as I dealt with a four year old in tears trying to put a life jacket on. I would never speak to another person like that.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Cas446
Spelling

[Cheese]

On 20/07/2019 at 17:35, Dr Bob said:

... We arrived at the bottom of Clacutt locks to find two boats about to emerge out of the just opened gates. We were on our own, no other boats around. We pulled in to the lock landing and saw the woman on the offside, who had opened the offside gate walking back to the top of the lock, crossing the top gates and then on to the tow path, and towards us.

The boats were pulling out and we asked the first of the 3 'support' crew if they were going to/would shut the offside gate as there was only one boat coming through. ...

Not sure if I have misunderstood, but this seems to imply that the other lock crew had already left the offside gate (open) and were back on the towpath - presumably having deliberately left it open in order, in their mind, to be helpful to you.   In those circumstances I really wouldn't expect them to go back around and across the top gates just to close the offside bottom gate; it would be more work for them than for you.

 

I find it helpful if people leave (any) gates open for me when approaching a lock.   And if for some reason I then decide to moor up and not go through, it is only right that I go and close the gates they left open for me.

[ditchcrawler]

If we know there are two boats approaching then we will even open the second gate if possible 

[Neil2]

On 20/07/2019 at 20:34, NB_Ladybird said:

I don’t know how others feel about this but when either myself or my partner are working a lock and there is another boat waiting to enter or if we are in the process of waiting. We always go to the lock and help or offer to help those already there. Appreciate some people don’t want help as they do things their own way. 

For me I would expect the boat crew waiting to enter the lock to approach those at it. I’ve often called down to an on coming crew how they want the lock left in readiness for them. 

Lets face it. You can pick up some good information in a brief exchange with people at a lock. 

 

As for abuse. Alas there seems to be an increase in boat rage these days. I won’t start the topic of cruising past moored boats. I can tell you some stories about that which will make you worry, including having objects thrown 

Yes that is a very good point and I am constantly perplexed why often in a queue of boats all the crew just stand around waiting for the boat in the lock to exit before springing into action.  

 

Of the thousands of locks we've done I can only think of one occasion when help has been refused, it was at Hillmorton and as I approached the guy concerned barked  "don't touch my balance beam".   I told him I wouldn't dream of interfering with his or anyone else's "balance beam" but would he like some help with the lock...  I don't think he had much of a sense of humour.    

[Dr Bob]

2 hours ago, Cheese said:

Not sure if I have misunderstood, but this seems to imply that the other lock crew had already left the offside gate (open) and were back on the towpath - presumably having deliberately left it open in order, in their mind, to be helpful to you.   In those circumstances I really wouldn't expect them to go back around and across the top gates just to close the offside bottom gate; it would be more work for them than for you.

 

No, they were standing by the open offside gate as we were hovering ....about to get on the lock landing, and then walked away from the gate as their boat exited...having clearly seen us and no other boat. No attempt to communicate to us.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

Yes that is a very good point and I am constantly perplexed why often in a queue of boats all the crew just stand around waiting for the boat in the lock to exit before springing into action.  

oing up the Buckby flight said they didnt want me to help

Of the thousands of locks we've done I can only think of one occasion when help has been refused, it was at Hillmorton and as I approached the guy concerned barked  "don't touch my balance beam".   I told him I wouldn't dream of interfering with his or anyone else's "balance beam" but would he like some help with the lock...  I don't think he had much of a sense of humour.    

3 single handers going up the Buckby flight told me they didnt want any help. funny how they changed their minds when I shot forward with my windlas when one of the tillers went under the hand rail of the bottom gate.

[Dave123]

On 20/07/2019 at 20:05, nipper said:

Mike, that was answering leaving one gate closed when using the lock, they really don't like you to do it!

And boaters seem to follow this rule very well by and large. Possibly because leaving exit gates open makes for less work so lazy boaters are happy?? 

The national trust say it's because the gates on the Wey are made differently ans less tough than on the canals?

[Mike Todd]

Sometimes both gates open themselves - even after you have closed them!

[cuthound]

On 20/07/2019 at 18:02, dmr said:

Closing the gates when a boat is waiting is rude and leaving both gates open is normal and polite. I think that you specifying exactly how you want the gates left open is perhaps a bit over the top. Its happened to me and I have felt like "I am not really here to set the lock up to somebody else's exact requirements", though I would usually oblige for a single hander.  Going in through one gate is bad boating, just look at that huge groove that boaters have caused by doing exactly that. Maybe your boat handling is so good that you Never scrape the gate, mine isn't, and from the evidence lots of boats who think they can do it obviously can't. I feel that by leaving only one gate open I am an "accessory to lock damage".

 

Absolutely no excuse for rudeness though.

 

.............Dave

 

Indeed, back in 2015 we attended an open day at one of the drained Hatton Locks and the CRT maintence man showed us the damage and explained how they have to let new wood into the gates to repair the damage done by single boats using just one gate.

 

Up until that day I always used just one gate and I don't recall ever hitting a gate but since then I have changed my behaviour and partially open the second gate.

 

 

I have attached the thread as it shows the locks empty.

 

[Chris Williams]

46 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Up until that day I always used just one gate and I don't recall ever hitting a gate but since then I have changed my behaviour and partially open the second gate.

A gentle, repeat gentle, nudge will start the other gate opening, thus giving you enough clearance.  If there is someone else on board, they can keep the gate clear for you.  That is if you can steer straight.

[Lily Rose]

31 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

A gentle, repeat gentle, nudge will start the other gate opening, thus giving you enough clearance.  If there is someone else on board, they can keep the gate clear for you.  That is if you can steer straight.

Presumably that only works on the way up?