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Ribble Link Savick Brook Bridge 10.


Martin@75

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We have just had a terrific trip over the Ribble Link. Traveling up the Savick Brook (parts of which could better be named the Orinoco) most of the bridges are mundane to say the least. But as we emerge from the jungle before the submersible lock 8, we came face to face with Br 10, a magnificent wide shallow arch ashlar bridge with all the hall marks of John Rennie. The quality of the stonework suggests its original owner had cash to spend.(estate, or Turnpike may be) Can anybody through any light on its origins. Obviously at the time it was built to brook had no relation to the canal.

IMG_3972.jpeg

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I think this is Goodier Bridge, but not certain: the attached link makes reference to it as "canal like" but doesn't really explain its origins other than to suggest this may have been the old limit of high water when the Brook was used to transport goods from the Ribble. An interesting article nonetheless. 

 

 

http://www.wyrearchaeology.org.uk/index.php/areas-of-interest/preston/savick-brook

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13 hours ago, Martin@75 said:

We have just had a terrific trip over the Ribble Link. Traveling up the Savick Brook (parts of which could better be named the Orinoco) most of the bridges are mundane to say the least. But as we emerge from the jungle before the submersible lock 8, we came face to face with Br 10, a magnificent wide shallow arch ashlar bridge with all the hall marks of John Rennie. The quality of the stonework suggests its original owner had cash to spend.(estate, or Turnpike may be) Can anybody through any light on its origins. Obviously at the time it was built to brook had no relation to the canal.

It's Savick bridge which takes the modern A583 over the Link.  

 

The A583 was originally a turnpike road and a bridge is shown on the crude map below of Lea Marsh from c1786. 

 

Whether this is the current bridge I very much doubt, and it's a bit early for John Rennie, if the date is correct it obviously predates the Lancaster canal.  I suspect today's bridge dates from around 1900 when the modern road was built. 

 

Map of Clifton & Lea Marsh & The Savock [Savick] Brook c.1786

 

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59 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

It's Savick bridge which takes the modern A583 over the Link.  

 

The A583 was originally a turnpike road and a bridge is shown on the crude map below of Lea Marsh from c1786. 

 

Whether this is the current bridge I very much doubt, and it's a bit early for John Rennie, if the date is correct it obviously predates the Lancaster canal.  I suspect today's bridge dates from around 1900 when the modern road was built. 

 

Map of Clifton & Lea Marsh & The Savock [Savick] Brook c.1786

 

Ah yes, I see that now. I'm still trying to determine which bridge  is/was known as Goodier Bridge, which the article I posted mentions as "canal-type". 

 

Edit to add:

Got it now: it's the occupation bridge just upstream of the landing stages.

Edited by rgreg
Found it
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Thanks

If, I have it right? It would seem that my CRT Br No10 is in fact Savick Br, which is a faux John Rennie design or facing and the CRT Br No 9 (below) is in fact Goodier Bridge.

That said it is interesting to know about the past coal trade on the brook, presumably a stop gap until the tram way was built. To me the big question is why was the LC not linked to Preston Dock?

 

As I have no idea about the local landscape or topography I would chance to speculate that the origin of Goodier Br is in fact medieval and represents the location of the first upstream ford or crossing over the brook giving access between Old Lea Hall Farm & New Lea Hall (Hoghton family) and Lea Town and little to do with 18C commerce.
This would also support the theory that the two western tracks would more likely be used to transport bulk coal, (first landing, then by cart up to the L Canal) however lightering could make it possible for barge goods to be transhipped to pack ani
mal at the Goodier Br landing for local consumption.

A competent archaeological investigation for the BW Savick Brook modifications should have identified coal transhipment points, if it did not, to me, it would indicate that very little coal transhipment took place on to the canal and that was pre 1804 when the tramway was built. That’s not to say a landing was not used for passengers or other goods pre and maybe post canal. As I say pure speculation.

 

I would be interested to see the location of the landscape pic’s marked on one of the OS sheets. They do look intruding.

IMG_3984.jpeg

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10 minutes ago, Martin@75 said:

Thanks

If, I have it right? It would seem that my CRT Br No10 is in fact Savick Br, which is a faux John Rennie design or facing and the CRT Br No 9 (below) is in fact Goodier Bridge.

That said it is interesting to know about the past coal trade on the brook, presumably a stop gap until the tram way was built. To me the big question is why was the LC not linked to Preston Dock?

 

Because the canal had already been linked with Glasson Dock by the time Preston had such a facility.  At the time the Lancaster was built navigating the tidal Ribble was fraught with problems and Preston wasn't a port of any importance.

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30 minutes ago, Martin@75 said:

Thanks

If, I have it right? It would seem that my CRT Br No10 is in fact Savick Br, which is a faux John Rennie design or facing and the CRT Br No 9 (below) is in fact Goodier Bridge.

That said it is interesting to know about the past coal trade on the brook, presumably a stop gap until the tram way was built. To me the big question is why was the LC not linked to Preston Dock?

 

As I have no idea about the local landscape or topography I would chance to speculate that the origin of Goodier Br is in fact medieval and represents the location of the first upstream ford or crossing over the brook giving access between Old Lea Hall Farm & New Lea Hall (Hoghton family) and Lea Town and little to do with 18C commerce.
This would also support the theory that the two western tracks would more likely be used to transport bulk coal, (first landing, then by cart up to the L Canal) however lightering could make it possible for barge goods to be transhipped to pack ani
mal at the Goodier Br landing for local consumption.

A competent archaeological investigation for the BW Savick Brook modifications should have identified coal transhipment points, if it did not, to me, it would indicate that very little coal transhipment took place on to the canal and that was pre 1804 when the tramway was built. That’s not to say a landing was not used for passengers or other goods pre and maybe post canal. As I say pure speculation.

 

I would be interested to see the location of the landscape pic’s marked on one of the OS sheets. They do look intruding.

IMG_3984.jpeg

That incarnation of Goodier Bridge was built in about 1998 - it's an Armco Culvert encased in concrete. 

 

I'm guessing that prior to the link being built there was a bridge with inadequate clearance, but I've no idea what it looked like. 

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4 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Because the canal had already been linked with Glasson Dock by the time Preston had such a facility.  At the time the Lancaster was built navigating the tidal Ribble was fraught with problems and Preston wasn't a port of any importance.

Preston almost certainly had more trade than Savick, though both are secondary destinations in the accounts I have for coal delivered off the Douglas Navigation in the 1760s. I also have a 1713 account of a court case re a ship owned in Preston which traded around the coast, so the town was definitely a port. Freckleton was by far the main destination for the Douglas coal, the port there being owned by the Douglas Navigation. It was only sold off by BW thirty years or so ago. Coal was also delivered to Liverpool, Dublin and Poulton and to Milnthorpe, another port with a wharf owned by the Douglas Navigation for the supply of Kendal.

 

I can't see navigating the Ribble being 'fraught with problems'. It had reasonably deep water at high tide, tides which could carry ships some distance above Preston if necessary. It is suggested that the Romans supplied their fort at Ribchester by the tidal river. The Ribble became more difficult to navigate after the Port of Preston opened, c1900, when the river had training walls constructed. This drastically increased the speed of flow in the river, causing much more of a scour. Prior to the training walls being built, boats could lay on the river bed outside Tarleton Lock to tranship cargo. The water level in this photo would have been the approximate level of the river bed in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Tarleton 438.jpg

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8 hours ago, Martin@75 said:

Thanks

If, I have it right? It would seem that my CRT Br No10 is in fact Savick Br, which is a faux John Rennie design or facing and the CRT Br No 9 (below) is in fact Goodier Bridge.

That said it is interesting to know about the past coal trade on the brook, presumably a stop gap until the tram way was built. To me the big question is why was the LC not linked to Preston Dock?

 

As I have no idea about the local landscape or topography I would chance to speculate that the origin of Goodier Br is in fact medieval and represents the location of the first upstream ford or crossing over the brook giving access between Old Lea Hall Farm & New Lea Hall (Hoghton family) and Lea Town and little to do with 18C commerce.
This would also support the theory that the two western tracks would more likely be used to transport bulk coal, (first landing, then by cart up to the L Canal) however lightering could make it possible for barge goods to be transhipped to pack ani
mal at the Goodier Br landing for local consumption.

A competent archaeological investigation for the BW Savick Brook modifications should have identified coal transhipment points, if it did not, to me, it would indicate that very little coal transhipment took place on to the canal and that was pre 1804 when the tramway was built. That’s not to say a landing was not used for passengers or other goods pre and maybe post canal. As I say pure speculation.

 

I would be interested to see the location of the landscape pic’s marked on one of the OS sheets. They do look intruding.

IMG_3984.jpeg

What’s with the (faux) John Rennie thing?

 

The arch construction bears a strong resemblance to the overbridges of the Liverpool & Manchester Railway. I suspect those are more to do with George Stephenson although they could be John Rennie’s design. Is Mr Rennie known for a particular style of arch? i.e. one like this?

 

JP

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3 hours ago, Pluto said:

Preston almost certainly had more trade than Savick, though both are secondary destinations in the accounts I have for coal delivered off the Douglas Navigation in the 1760s. I also have a 1713 account of a court case re a ship owned in Preston which traded around the coast, so the town was definitely a port. Freckleton was by far the main destination for the Douglas coal, the port there being owned by the Douglas Navigation. It was only sold off by BW thirty years or so ago. Coal was also delivered to Liverpool, Dublin and Poulton and to Milnthorpe, another port with a wharf owned by the Douglas Navigation for the supply of Kendal.

 

I can't see navigating the Ribble being 'fraught with problems'. It had reasonably deep water at high tide, tides which could carry ships some distance above Preston if necessary. It is suggested that the Romans supplied their fort at Ribchester by the tidal river. The Ribble became more difficult to navigate after the Port of Preston opened, c1900, when the river had training walls constructed. This drastically increased the speed of flow in the river, causing much more of a scour. Prior to the training walls being built, boats could lay on the river bed outside Tarleton Lock to tranship cargo. The water level in this photo would have been the approximate level of the river bed in the 18th and 19th centuries.

All the improvements to the Ribble in the mid 19th century made the river harder to navigate..?  Preston only started to become a port of any note after the improvements to the Ribble were carried out - after the construction of the Lancaster canal and Glasson dock.    

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24 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

All the improvements to the Ribble in the mid 19th century made the river harder to navigate..?  Preston only started to become a port of any note after the improvements to the Ribble were carried out - after the construction of the Lancaster canal and Glasson dock.    

By speeding up the flow by installing training walls, the river would certainly have been much harder for sailing craft to navigate safely. One of the main reasons for the decline of sailing Mersey flats was the speed of the Mersey as the Bar was dredged to suit deeper-drafted steam boats. Depth of water only becomes of primary importance when you put an engine in a boat. I have copies of mid-18th century descriptions of flats working up the Mersey to Warrington, where they just went as far as the could before grounding and then waited for the next tide. I researched the subject quite extensively over twenty years ago as part of my research into the Douglas Navigation.

 

The first Ribble improvement scheme dates from 1806. At the time, boats sat on the mud just below the bridge on the turnpike south from Preston, a situation which continued until the dock opened in 1892. In 1873, almost 85,000 tons were handled by the river quays at Preston, and it was a desire to increase this, and coal exports in particular, which led to the dock being constructed. Glasson was never a particularly important port as the area it served did not have a great deal of industry. Lancaster had been an important slave trade port, but even there trade declined as Liverpool grew in importance.

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