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Shoreline fridge- no power connectors - advice please


Sofia

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Just now, DandV said:

In the olden days when area could be measured by perches, or was it Boris kippers?

 

Nowadays we have to measure our air vents in square millimetres. Can anyone here easily envisage how big the hole in the wall will be to give an open cross sectional area of say, 25,300 square millimetres? 

 

It would make no less sense to specify in hectares!!!!

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2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Can anyone here easily envisage how big the hole in the wall will be to give an open cross sectional area of say, 25,300 square millimetres? 

159mm Square. Ish. 

 

But that’s only because cause my phone calculator has a sq root button. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

159mm Square. Ish. 

 

But that’s only because cause my phone calculator has a sq root button. 

 

Ah but that's the point. You had to use a calculator to translate it to anything meaningful. This crops up a lot using metric units to measure stuff. The millimetre is very poorly suited. When specifying engineering tolerances "+/- two thou" would be a common requirement and makes perfect sense to a toolmaker. Now convert that to millimetres..... horrible!

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ah but that's the point. You had to use a calculator to translate it to anything meaningful. This crops up a lot using metric units to measure stuff. The millimetre is very poorly suited. When specifying engineering tolerances "+/- two thou" would be a common requirement and makes perfect sense to a toolmaker. Now convert that to millimetres..... horrible!

Machining in either measurement system was fine if the machine tool used the same system. A nightmare machining to metric dimensions on an imperial lathe, milling machine or grinder. And vice versa. A huge number of quality machine tools must have met a premature demise because their lead screws were pitched in imperial units. I still have a Moore and Wright 0 - 1" micrometer but haven't used it for decades. 

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Mole grips make a much better clamp, don't they!  :giggles:

Micrometers = calibrated G glamps

Vernier Calipers = calibrated adjustable spanners. 

Surface plate = big anvil

 

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1 minute ago, DandV said:

Surface plate = big anvil

 

 

Ouch!! 

 

And on a similar note, I once saw a large group of lads on the beautifully manicured bowling green in my local park practicing their football tackling skills on each other, as I cycled past....

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15 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

It is definitely square millimetres, not millimetres squared.

 

This confusion killed 13 people in one of my company’s helicopters. 

I don't believe there is any argument that the measurement is actually "8 square millimetres", but do you not agree that as 'spoken' it is normally pronounced "8 millimetres square"

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I don't believe there is any argument that the measurement is actually "8 square millimetres", but do you not agree that as 'spoken' it is normally pronounced "8 millimetres square"

No, I definitely and strongly disagree. The spoken “8 square millimetres” carries a completely different meaning from “8 millimetres square”. 

Edited by nicknorman
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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Then we will have to differ.

 

I had 9 years as an electric cable designer and in product management working for one of the UK major cable manufacturers, and wrote the cable specifications for many organisations including the NCB, British Aerospace and several Oil companies.

 

In "speech" it would always be "8mm squared conductors" (as it is written)

 

I have never heard it referred to as "8 squared mm conductors"

that just suggests how sloppy the electric cable industry is.

 

I received a rigorous education at school and uni, and learned to be specific and unambiguous, (if nothing else  :rolleyes:  )

 

.................  and I never suggested it should be "8 squared mm". ........ using that term in this context just shows how misunderstandings can happen. 

As you well know I said "square millimetres".........................    there is a world of difference   .....   "8 squared mm" can only mean 64 (linear) millimetres, nothing else.

 

 

Edited by Murflynn
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the most illuminating and useful thing I ever learned in Physics classes was 'dimensional analysis'.  Some folk round 'ere should try it once in a while, along with nearly every journalist and TV producer who has ever had the privilege of being published.

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On 20/07/2019 at 22:46, WotEver said:

I always type mm2 as does everyone else, including the IEE. I can’t see how you would pronounce that as anything other than millimetre squared, even though we all know it refers to square millimetres. 

 

Tony you should now better. ?

 

The IEE (Institution of Electrical Engineers) ceased to exist in 2006, when it merged with IIE (Institution of Incorporated Engineers ) to become the IET.

 

The regs have been IET Regs since the 17th Edition.

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So swerving back onto the original tangent, is there really no product designed to connect two conductors widely differing in CSA? 

 

Do we always have to resort to bodgery like snipping off copper strands to fit the fatter wire into a butt connector suitable for the thinner wire? Or ring crimps and a bolt bound up in insulating tape?

 

This problem crops up constantly on 12Vdc boat installations, dunnit....?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Tony you should now better. ?

 

The IEE (Institution of Electrical Engineers) ceased to exist in 2006, when it merged with IIE (Institution of Incorporated Engineers ) to become the IET.

 

The regs have been IET Regs since the 17th Edition.

But I’m just old and remember things as they used to be ;)

 

We’ve moved on from the 2nd edition now?

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Do we always have to resort to bodgery like snipping off copper strands to fit the fatter wire into a butt connector suitable for the thinner wire? Or ring crimps and a bolt bound up in insulating tape?

Nope. To do it properly you’d use a two terminal busbar, but I assumed that was a step too far for the OP. 

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4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

But I’m just old and remember things as they used to be ;)

 

We’ve moved on from the 2nd edition now?

Nope. To do it properly you’d use a two terminal busbar, but I assumed that was a step too far for the OP. 

 

Ah good point. There are also 'terminal posts' that could be used. 

 

s-l225.jpg

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Junction-Block-Power-Post-8mm-Insulated-Terminal-Stud-Red-Black/332923807990?hash=item4d83ce28f6:g:dVEAAOSwXedcBWEq

 

Although on a brief search I could not find any with insulated covers.

 

 

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

Yep, they’d do it neatly and reliably. 

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

pity Shoreline couldn't provide something like that in the first place - unless, as I suspect, the fridge isn't new and someone has snipped off the cables.

 

I suspect it is more likely the new 12v Danfoss compressor fitted to convert it comes with wires like that out of the box for factory connection, but Shoreline CBA to put proper terminals on. 

 

 

Possibly for the same reason as we here are struggling to find connectors not costing approaching double figures!

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ah good point. There are also 'terminal posts' that could be used. 

 

s-l225.jpg

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Junction-Block-Power-Post-8mm-Insulated-Terminal-Stud-Red-Black/332923807990?hash=item4d83ce28f6:g:dVEAAOSwXedcBWEq

 

Although on a brief search I could not find any with insulated covers.

 

 

I bought these when I was installing my Shoreline integrated fridge and Freezer as I wanted to do the job right. However there was too little room between the back of the units and the sloping wall to mount them safely (as has been stated, no insulating caps seem to exist) and I ended up doing the chocolate block bodge with half a reel of insulation tape. In this regard, Shoreline's products are half baked in my opinion.

Still have those terminal posts begging to be used somewhere

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9 minutes ago, Stephen Jeavons said:

I bought these when I was installing my Shoreline integrated fridge and Freezer as I wanted to do the job right. However there was too little room between the back of the units and the sloping wall to mount them safely (as has been stated, no insulating caps seem to exist) and I ended up doing the chocolate block bodge with half a reel of insulation tape. In this regard, Shoreline's products are half baked in my opinion.

Still have those terminal posts begging to be used somewhere

 

The best way to do it I suggest, is to make up flyleads about 1.5m long on the fridge of the same size cable as those existing short tails, then fit those terminal pillars inside the cupboard next to the fridge. Drag new tails around behind the back of the adjacent base unit or drill a hole through it, then the terminal pillars have plenty of space around them and the big fat wires can go off to the consumer unit from there. 

 

 

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The mm square vs square mm confusion can be easily got round by using a unit of area for conductor measurement, rather than a linear unit. I propose an imperial unit to keep the crustier forum members happy. The nanoAcre.

 

1nanoAcre = 4.0469mm2

or 1mm2 roughly equals 1/4 nanoAcre.

 

Jen

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