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Shoreline fridge- no power connectors - advice please


Sofia

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If you do have to run new wires, then the cost difference between the minimum recommended cross sectional area, and the next available thicker wires is minimal and the labour required the same. Your fridge will run better, and it gives you options to later upgrade to a bigger fridge.  

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From the Amazon adds it looks as if I was probably correct about it being a Peltier unit so I would say the chances of those wires being  large enough for a 12V compressor fridge is just about zero unless  that fridge replaced the an even older compressor fridge and the cables do not look thick enough for that to me.

 

My advice would be to rewire in the correct sized cable otherwise there is every chance the fridge will either just refuse to start and flash a light at you or it will run intermittently and each time it stops flash a light at you.

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I don't think anyone has provided this link for the OP http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v21_150618.pdf

 

The Shoreline instructions suggest the wires from the battery must be connected to the red and black tails - for some reason this is how that particular model of fridge is supplied rather than + and - terminals on a block connector.   

 

As with all modern 12v fridges if the voltage is too low it simply won't operate.  The "new" Danfoss compressors have a low voltage cut out as IIRC this was the main reason for compressors failing in the past. 

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40 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

As with all modern 12v fridges if the voltage is too low it simply won't operate.  The "new" Danfoss compressors have a low voltage cut out as IIRC this was the main reason for compressors failing in the past. 

 

What actually happens IIRC, is the fridge compressor starts up, the power drawn causes the voltage to drop through the wires if too thin, the electronics waits two or three seconds then shuts the compressor off and waits ten seconds then it tries again. The fridge cycles on and off like this and never gets cold. 

 

The fridge will often run fine once the engine is running or a battery charger is connected, as the voltage in the system rises a couple of volts to battery charging voltage.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

 

 

As with all modern 12v fridges if the voltage is too low it simply won't operate.  The "new" Danfoss compressors have a low voltage cut out as IIRC this was the main reason for compressors failing in the past. 

The fridge will cut-out at 10v and not restart until it gets to 11.2v, but in my case it would run at 11 volts but run and run and run (virtually continuously) but unable to get down to temperature (It is a Waeco fridge).

 

Start the engine, or switch on the battery charger and the higher battery voltage (13.5 - 14.4) meant that the 1.5 (ish) volt drop still gave 12.5 / 13 volts at the fridge and was sufficient to run and cool correctly.

 

As I mentioned in one of the posts above, simply replacing the wire between the Bus-Bar and the fridge with 8mm squared solved the problem and the fridge now performs perfectly 'engine off'.

 

 

Edit to add - I wrote this an hour ago but went to make a cup-of tea and forgot it.

Reading MtB's post I though 'I wrote something like that', and there it was sat in the out-box.

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I have to say canal world is great. So many helpful people. Thank you everyone, it's all a learning curve for me and I want to understand everything I can. Thank you to everyone who has commented, definetly helped me :)

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22 minutes ago, Sofia said:

I have to say canal world is great. So many helpful people. Thank you everyone, it's all a learning curve for me and I want to understand everything I can. Thank you to everyone who has commented, definetly helped me :)

 

You're more than welcome. No-one here knows everything but collectively the knowledge is truly awesome.

 

Now when you see the next question on fridges, YOU can join in with the answers!! 

 

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2 hours ago, Neil2 said:

I don't think anyone has provided this link for the OP http://www.shoreline-marine.co.uk/admin/document_library/RRInstructions_BD35ONLY.v21_150618.pdf

 

The Shoreline instructions suggest the wires from the battery must be connected to the red and black tails - for some reason this is how that particular model of fridge is supplied rather than + and - terminals on a block connector.   

 

As with all modern 12v fridges if the voltage is too low it simply won't operate.  The "new" Danfoss compressors have a low voltage cut out as IIRC this was the main reason for compressors failing in the past. 

 

It seems to me that is asking for volt drop problems caused by substandard connections. Just how is one supposed to  connect (for example) 12 sq mm CCSA cable to those tails. I know how I would do it but it would be a bodge that relied on cutting strands out and then two sizes of adhesive heat shrink. This smacks o0f "value" engineering and cost saving to me.

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6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

It seems to me that is asking for volt drop problems caused by substandard connections. Just how is one supposed to  connect (for example) 12 sq mm CCSA cable to those tails. I know how I would do it but it would be a bodge that relied on cutting strands out and then two sizes of adhesive heat shrink. This smacks o0f "value" engineering and cost saving to me.

I agree. The best way would I think be to use pin crimps on those cables, the same on the 12mm2, then a 15A chock block. Otherwise, ring terminals and bolts, covered with loads of insulating tape. 

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I agree. The best way would I think be to use pin crimps on those cables, the same on the 12mm2, then a 15A chock block. Otherwise, ring terminals and bolts, covered with loads of insulating tape. 

I think I would use the correct but crimp for the tails and thin down the fatter cable conductors to size and crimp the conductors in both the insulation and conductor crimps. Then cover with adhesive heat shrink to prevent the crimps puling apart.

 

Actually I would not do that because I hate crimps and find even with the proper equipment they can be unreliable. I would strip the insulation off a butt crimp and crimp as above before soldering but then I can solder with minimal wicking up the strands. The the adhesive heat shrink.

 

Still a bodge through.

 

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21 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

OK, then the battery charger will be 'masking' any inadequacies in the wiring and volt drop.

Just be prepared that when you 'cut the umbilical' you may (or may not) find that your fridge / freezer works ok during the day when the engine is running, but overnight everything defrosts.

 

I had exactly this problem so it is not just theory.

My fridge was only about 2 metres from the Bus-bar supply and I had to rewire with 8mm squared (NOT 8mm diameter) cabling to get it to work correctly.

pedant alert!!

 

8mm squared is 64 sq,mm.     AdE knows better - it should read 8sq.mm.     

 

PS: how do I do superscript on a QWERTY keyboard.

 

PPS: is it a new fridge?   seems odd that the cable ends are very short and twisted as if someone has already made a bodge of trying to make some kind of connection.

Edited by Murflynn
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47 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

mm squared is 64 sq,mm.     AdE knows better - it should read 8sq.mm.     

 

so is 8mm² not pronounced 8mm squared ?

 

Or, are you suggesting it should be 8²mm 

Would that not then be 64mm ?

 

 

We (several of us) had this discussion a few weeks ago.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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I always type mm2 as does everyone else, including the IEE. I can’t see how you would pronounce that as anything other than millimetre squared, even though we all know it refers to square millimetres. 

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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

so is 8mm² not pronounced 8mm squared ?

 

Or, are you suggesting it should be 8²mm 

Would that not then be 64mm ?

 

 

We (several of us) had this discussion a few weeks ago.

as an engineer, I take issue with that.  You can't shouldn't pronounce it phonetically if it leads to a totally incorrect meaning.  I have worked in metric units since 1967 and have never heard anyone describe mm² as anything other than square millimetres.  

 

 

Edited by Murflynn
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Just now, Murflynn said:

as an engineer, I take issue with that.  You can't shouldn't pronounce it phonetically if it leads to a totally incorrect meaning.  I have worked in metric units since 1967 and have never heard anyone describe mm² as anything other than square millimetres.  

Then we will have to differ.

 

I had 9 years as an electric cable designer and in product management working for one of the UK major cable manufacturers, and wrote the cable specifications for many organisations including the NCB, British Aerospace and several Oil companies.

 

In "speech" it would always be "8mm squared conductors" (as it is written)

 

I have never heard it referred to as "8 squared mm conductors"

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32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Then we will have to differ.

 

I had 9 years as an electric cable designer and in product management working for one of the UK major cable manufacturers, and wrote the cable specifications for many organisations including the NCB, British Aerospace and several Oil companies.

 

In "speech" it would always be "8mm squared conductors" (as it is written)

 

I have never heard it referred to as "8 squared mm conductors"

 

In my world all the same confusion persists in relation to cross sectional areas of air vents. You wouldn't believe how feek 'gas engineers' can be in the training room, struggling to grasp the difference between an air vent of say 12 square inches cross sectional area and an air vent 12 inches square. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Then we will have to differ.

 

I had 9 years as an electric cable designer and in product management working for one of the UK major cable manufacturers, and wrote the cable specifications for many organisations including the NCB, British Aerospace and several Oil companies.

 

In "speech" it would always be "8mm squared conductors" (as it is written)

 

I have never heard it referred to as "8 squared mm conductors"

I would have to side with Alan on this, specifically  regarding cable sizes. "8mil squared" is the accepted terminology. However for something like the area of a miniature solar panel this would probably be described as 8 square millimetres. Confused? blame the French. 

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1 minute ago, DandV said:

I would have to side with Alan on this, specifically  regarding cable sizes. "8mil squared" is the accepted terminology. However for something like the area of a miniature solar panel this would probably be described as 8 square millimetres. Confused? blame the French. 

But now you have thrown yet another rotten fish into the mix.

 

Mil = 1 / 1000 of an inch

 

so is it now 8/1000" squared ?

 

 

letting-off-steam.png

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Mil = 1 / 1000 of an inch

 

No that was sloppy use of language back in the day. When I was in manufacturing around the time of metrication 'mil' was used to mean a millimetre and 'thou' meant 1/000 of an inch. 

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

No that was sloppy use of language back in the day. When I was in manufacturing around the time of metrication 'mil' was used to mean a millimetre and 'thou' meant 1/000 of an inch. 

I must admit I use "Thou" rather than "Mil" in measurement, but "MILS" when shooting or hiking :

 

A milliradian, often called a mil or mrad, is an SI derived unit for angular measurement which is defined as a thousandth of a radian (0.001 radian). Mils are used in adjustment of firearm sights by adjusting the angle of the sight compared to the barrel (up, down, left or right).

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