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Can I still holes in gas locker?


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Sorry, I know this has been covered but I’m damned if I can find the post. 

Was there any definitive answer to this question? 

Specifically, I’d like to drill a couple of holes low down in the gas locker to mount a timber bearer on the outside. Attached by nuts, bolts, sealant etc. 

BSS compliant or not? 

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1 minute ago, starman said:

Sorry, I know this has been covered but I’m damned if I can find the post. 

Was there any definitive answer to this question? 

Specifically, I’d like to drill a couple of holes low down in the gas locker to mount a timber bearer on the outside. Attached by nuts, bolts, sealant etc. 

BSS compliant or not? 

I don't see why not as long as you don't compromise the drain/vent holes.

  • Greenie 1
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6 minutes ago, starman said:

Sorry, I know this has been covered but I’m damned if I can find the post. 

Was there any definitive answer to this question? 

Specifically, I’d like to drill a couple of holes low down in the gas locker to mount a timber bearer on the outside. Attached by nuts, bolts, sealant etc. 

BSS compliant or not? 

Our gas locker has holes drill in it for mounting the bubble tester, regulator and a bracket that keeps the gas bottles from fouling the regulator etc. Inspector has never quibbled.
Providing that no escaped gas can find its way into the boat, I can't see much difference in what you are proposing to do. Assume fire retardant sealant?
As ever, best to ask the guy who does your boat inspection first.

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53 minutes ago, starman said:

Sorry, I know this has been covered but I’m damned if I can find the post. 

Was there any definitive answer to this question? 

Specifically, I’d like to drill a couple of holes low down in the gas locker to mount a timber bearer on the outside. Attached by nuts, bolts, sealant etc. 

BSS compliant or not? 

 

Provided the holes are gas-tight afterwards, yes.

 

 

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This was raised a few years ago, prompted by some failing a BSS due to having a through bolt in the side of the locker. Rob of the BSS office replied that it was acceptable if the holes were completely sealed by the bolt and washer.  I’ve printed it off in case I had a jobsworth inspector try to fail me.  I’m away at the moment, but if it is still required I can find the link in a couple of days.  Or someone else might find it in the meantime.

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1 hour ago, starman said:

Sorry, I know this has been covered but I’m damned if I can find the post. 

Was there any definitive answer to this question? 

Specifically, I’d like to drill a couple of holes low down in the gas locker to mount a timber bearer on the outside. Attached by nuts, bolts, sealant etc. 

BSS compliant or not? 

 

Common sense would say it would be OK.

But the BSS taken literally by an examiner could fail it - the text in 'BOLD' could be the argument for / against it.

 

Section 7:2:1

The sides of every cylinder locker must extend at least
up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or
other high‐pressure components where these are
higher.
Up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or
other high‐pressure components where these are
higher, the bottom, sides, and seams of every cylinder
locker must be free of any:
• holes, e.g. caused by drilling,
rust or cutting; or ,
• cracks, splits or de‐laminations; or,
• missing or damaged welds at seams; or,
• other signs of damage or deterioration…
…. that can be determined by visual examination to
penetrate the locker to the interior of the vessel.

 

Cylinder locker bottoms, sides and seams covered by
this check must not rely upon glue or sealant to
prevent any leaked LPG from entering the interior of
the vessel.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Common sense would say it would be OK.

But the BSS taken literally by an examiner would fail it - the text in 'BOLD' could be the argument for it.

 

Section 7:2:1

The sides of every cylinder locker must extend at least
up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or
other high‐pressure components where these are
higher.
Up to the level of the top of the cylinder valves, or
other high‐pressure components where these are
higher, the bottom, sides, and seams of every cylinder
locker must be free of any:
• holes, e.g. caused by drilling,
rust or cutting; or ,
• cracks, splits or de‐laminations; or,
• missing or damaged welds at seams; or,
• other signs of damage or deterioration…
…. that can be determined by visual examination to
penetrate the locker to the interior of the vessel.

 

Cylinder locker bottoms, sides and seams covered by
this check must not rely upon glue or sealant to
prevent any leaked LPG from entering the interior of
the vessel.

Surely a hole filled and sealed with a bolt is no longer a hole.  I read it as an open hole or crack.

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10 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Surely a hole filled and sealed with a bolt is no longer a hole.  I read it as an open hole or crack.

We are talking about BSS Examiners here - you know, the ones who fail a boat for not complying with 'advisory' items.

 

9 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

It is above the regulator too.

 

Then it should pass without any problem as it complies with the requirements.

 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 


…. that can be determined by visual examination to
penetrate the locker to the interior of the vessel.

 

Cylinder locker bottoms, sides and seams covered by
this check must not rely upon glue or sealant to
prevent any leaked LPG from entering the interior of
the vessel.

This refers to 'penetrating' and 'entering' the 'interior of the vessel'. If it is done from the well deck, then I read that as being OK.

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2 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

This refers to 'penetrating' and 'entering' the 'interior of the vessel'. If it is done from the well deck, then I read that as being OK.

Indeed which is why I highlighted it and said it is an argument for / or against.

 

If any vapour could vent onto the deck then it could be argued that it 'fails' as it must be vented overboard.

 

Not taking a stance either way - just looking at an argument a 'stroppy' examiner could use.

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7 minutes ago, Mike Tee said:

This refers to 'penetrating' and 'entering' the 'interior of the vessel'. If it is done from the well deck, then I read that as being OK.

...........................    if the well deck drains overboard and not into an enclosed space on the boat.

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3 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Surely a hole filled and sealed with a bolt is no longer a hole.  I read it as an open hole or crack.

 

A hole with a bolt going through it isn't necessarily gas tight. Even if it's sealed with sealant how is an inspector supposed to test it? Might that be why some interpret the BSS rules more strictly than others?

2 hours ago, Mike Tee said:

This refers to 'penetrating' and 'entering' the 'interior of the vessel'. If it is done from the well deck, then I read that as being OK.

 

I would only read that as being ok if the bow doors and any vents are gas tight. 

Edited by blackrose
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2 hours ago, Murflynn said:

...........................    if the well deck drains overboard and not into an enclosed space on the boat.

How can you guarantee that any escaping gas will drain overboard and not into the boat though the doors? The well deck scuppers might be a few inches below, but what if the doors are open and the wind is blowing in that direction? An inspector can't know the exact situation, so perhaps with justification, some will interpret the rules to preclude these possibilities and fail any holes in the gas locker below the height of the bottle.

Edited by blackrose
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28 minutes ago, blackrose said:

How can you guarantee that any escaping gas will drain overboard and not into the boat though the doors? The well deck scuppers might be a few inches below, but what if the doors are open and the wind is blowing in that direction? An inspector can't know the exact situation, so perhaps with justification, some will interpret the rules to preclude these possibilities and fail any holes in the gas locker below the height of the bottle.

wouldn't this be the same as having a gas locker on a flush rear deck?

there is always a risk that the wind could blow gas back into the rear door opening even if the drain holes were over the side.

 

maybe we are over-thinking it.

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6 hours ago, dor said:

This was raised a few years ago, prompted by some failing a BSS due to having a through bolt in the side of the locker. Rob of the BSS office replied that it was acceptable if the holes were completely sealed by the bolt and washer.  I’ve printed it off in case I had a jobsworth inspector try to fail me.  I’m away at the moment, but if it is still required I can find the link in a couple of days.  Or someone else might find it in the meantime.

Re my post above,  this s the text posted by Rob from the BSS office:

 

It's in an old thread on here with a response from Rob.  I printed it off at the time, suggest others might like to and keep with their certificate in case they come across a pedantic examiner (I do wonder how many do this in the hope of getting a re-examination fee...).

 

Rob@BSSOffice

 

Location:Milton Keynes 

Posted 06 November 2013 - 09:22 PM

Mike the Boilerman, on 06 Nov 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:   I would argue that a hole filled by a bolt and suitably sealed against the passage of gas is no longer a hole.

 

Reading 7.2.1 in context in my opinion means there must be no open holes, although I agree this is not what it actually says

 

Y'know I really fear to enter this thread, too much heat taking away all the light, but I feel that Alan, Mike, Brendan, Bones, Julyian and all the excellent contributors deserve the answer about bolted items.

So I asked the tech guys in the office and this is the answer...

Bolting a mounting plate or restraint anchors into the locker is ok provided the holes are fully 'filled-in' with no visible gaps/holes. These should also be quasi-permanent arrangements, not say access or inspection plates designed to be regularly bolted and unbolted.

So as Brendan said, there is as Mike also describes, the option for the examiner to agree that there are no open holes on an arrangement that is as permanent as ever a bolted thing can be. the sensible and reasonable ground as somebody said to me.

This is what the committees agreed when they reconsidered gas locker arrangements last year.

I hope this helps let the dust settle on this point which seems to have become a bit of a side issue.

Cheers

Rob

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If you drill and tap the steel and use that as the fixing with sealant then, unlike a bolt through with a nut on it, there is no hole once the threads have mashed.

Especially if you grind the shaft of the bolt flat in the gas locker and paint over it ;)

 

 

Edited by Loddon
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12 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

If you have a problem with the BSS examiner - replace the BSS examiner with one who is more compliant

 

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Interview them on the phone to establish their attitude to this question. 

 

 

 

A valid point, but I wonder what the response would be to the question "are you compliant ?"

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I would suggest that any hole fitted with a bolt would be a possible fail, unless it was well painted over inside and out, so that it clearly becomes part of the permanent boat structure, in which case any BSS man failing it would be a churlish nit-picking twit.

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