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New CRT TV advert


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7 hours ago, 36national said:

Yes DOH indeed 

because cutting and pasting tranches of legaleese ain't the way to get the support of anybody. No one can be bothered to read it let alone care about it so the CRT decided that a computer generated animation of a buzzy bee thingy  might be a bit more accessible. As stated previously; love it / hate it, its still a fact.  Maybe you could take y list of regulations, ordinances, directives, stipulations or whatever the f y callem and stick em on a church wall, or some other place that nobody goes anymore, bung a begging box underneath and watch the cash come rolling in

 

Oops - touched a nerve there haven't we.

 

Maybe you are not used to being asked to support your claims with actual evidence.

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7 hours ago, 36national said:

or if y like words so much perhaps you could explain,clarify or otherwise elucidate the precise difference difference between points 2.3 and 2.4 of the list you so proudly cut and pasted in your previous post

 

 

 

It looks as if the first one refers to the area through which a canal runs, and the second one to the canals themselves.

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7 hours ago, 36national said:

or if y like words so much perhaps you could explain,clarify or otherwise elucidate the precise difference difference between points 2.3 and 2.4 of the list you so proudly cut and pasted in your previous post

 

 

 

You really are struggling with comprehension today.

 

2.3 is improving the 'environment' for the public (conservation, butterfly parks, dragonfly habitats etc)

2.4 is improving, maintaining and restoration of  canals..

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

All good questions.

Should he decide that the "management" is unable to achieve self-sufficiency, or any other reason that he sees fit, he may decide to hand it over to one that has proven, (in a similar field), that  they can (The national Trust being a prime example)

200 year old infrastructure, country-wide responsibilities, daily maintenance, major renovation projects etc etc.

 

It would probably mean some big changes (and charges) for canal users.

It might also mean some big changes for NT.   As a member I can gain entery and use NT sites without charge.   I can't think of anywhere where I have to pay to use NT so how would a licence fee fit it with NT current modus operandi?

 

One advantage of being run by the NT would be members do have some little chance to influence things by voting at the AGM.

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9 minutes ago, Jerra said:

It might also mean some big changes for NT.   As a member I can gain entery and use NT sites without charge.   I can't think of anywhere where I have to pay to use NT so how would a licence fee fit it with NT current modus operandi?

 

One advantage of being run by the NT would be members do have some little chance to influence things by voting at the AGM.

 

At least the Governments proposal that C&RT takes over EA navigational responsibilities has been 'quietly dropped'. That would have both dragged Ex-EA waters down to C&RT maintenance and manning levels and dragged C&RT down to breaking point.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

It might also mean some big changes for NT.   As a member I can gain entery and use NT sites without charge.   I can't think of anywhere where I have to pay to use NT so how would a licence fee fit it with NT current modus operandi?

 

Can you take your boat on the Wey Navigation for free?

 

NT used to run the South Stratford, but handed it back to BW with some relief, and I think they would be reluctant to take on the full system now. As a minimum they would surely require a substantial dowry to cover arrears of maintenance. Where would that come from?

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

NT used to run the South Stratford, but handed it back to BW with some relief

 

What was the arrangement back then regarding licenses? Did one need to buy a NT licence to cruise the southern Stratford? 

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25 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

No, you bought a visitor licence much as today on Wey.

I am not sure I am getting my head round this.  Did NT members have to but a licence or not?   I would expect a non member like yourself to have to buy a licence just as you would if you visited a NT property.

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I remember having to buy a visitors licence for the South Stratford in 1983. It cost £40 from Lapworth to Stratford, which was a lot of money back then. NT took all the money but spent not a penny on maintenance so the canal was almost unusable when it passed into the hands of BW.

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

so the canal was almost unusable when it passed into the hands of BW.

 

A bit like now, you mean?

 

In my 30" draft boat I have to take a run at the bridge 'oles and shut off the power just as I get there so my stern wave lifts me through. I cannot just cruise through many of them, or even haul the boat through using a line, the bridge holes are just too shallow. 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Heartland said:

An important question will be how effective the advert will be. The AA advert with Red Dwarf has definitely hit the mark.

 

I wonder if storm troopers will start manning the lock flights, by the way. 

 

I would still say that whilst the AA advert shows people what they do (and they already have a 100+ year market presence and I would guess a very high market recognition of who they are and what they do)  The C&RT advert just shows a mini Michelin man floating down a canal with absolutely no indication about what C&RT do or what the advert is "about". All it says is 'Better by Water'.

 

Nothing along the lines of can you spare a few pennies (become a friend) to help us keep a 200 year old infrastructure in good condition so you can feel "Better By The  Water"

 

C&RT is an 'unknown' to the majority of the public, they need to explain who they are and what they do. Simple marketing stuff.

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19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Nothing along the lines of can you spare a few pennies (become a friend) to help us keep a 200 year old infrastructure in good condition so you can feel "Better By The  Water"

 

 

 

But the CRT advert isn't about fundraising a few pennies from loads of people.

 

It is about boosting visitor numbers to the towpaths to protect the government grant, surely? And that grant depends on massive visitor number stats illustrating how much the public value the waterways. So its goal must be raising public awareness of the waterways as a destination to 'relax', and I suspect it might work moderately well. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

But the CRT advert isn't about fundraising a few pennies from loads of people.

 

It is about boosting visitor numbers to the towpaths to protect the government grant, surely? And if raising public awareness of the waterways as a destination to 'relax', I suspect it might work moderately well. 

 

 

 

That could well be one reason - but - irrespective of the number of visits (last quoted as, I think, about 400,000,000 per year) the grant stops in a few years.

They are so, so far behind budget to become self funding that more income is needed, that must surely become their primary focus of any advertising.

 

Imagine :

 

The times are hard, I've seen it with my own eyes - the water is leaking and the dragon flies have nowhere to breed, fish are struggling to stay alive, and boats are unable to move. For just £3 per month you could help us repair the leaks and save the lives of these wonderful creatures for the enjoyment of your children and their children. What would life be like without Dragon-Flies ?

Call today and donate just £3 and we promise that we will chase you every month to increase your donations so we can pay for fancy new logos and re-painting all of the vans.

The Dragon-Flies will thank you - we cannot do it without you.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That could well be one reason - but - irrespective of the number of visits (last quoted as, I think, about 400,000,000 per year) the grant stops in a few years.

They are so, so far behind budget to become self funding that more income is needed that must surely become their primary focus of any advertising.

 

Imagine :

 

The times are hard, I've seen it with my own eyes - the water is leaking and the dragon flies have nowhere to breed, fish are struggling to stay alive, and boats are unable to move. For just £3 per month you could help us repair the leaks and save the lives of these wonderful creatures for the enjoyment of your children and their children. What would life be like without Dragon-Flies ?

Call today and donate just £3 and we promise that we will chase you every month do increase your donations so we can pay for fancy new logos and re-painting all of the vans.

The Dragon-Flies will thank you - we cannot do it without you.

 

You is a JEANIOUS marketing man. My pet dragonfly says so.....

 

 

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The number of fund raisers seem to have increased in recent times and they are to be found at a variety of events. How effective they will be is another question to ponder.

 

Visitors to the canalside are being encouraged in different ways. There are a number of circular cycle routes that are advertised now that taken in the canal network. Coach firms too are including day trips on the canal or river in their brochures in a more regular basis. Pontcysyllte is one that is chosen. May be others deserve promotion. 

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On 21/07/2019 at 08:40, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That could well be one reason - but - irrespective of the number of visits (last quoted as, I think, about 400,000,000 per year) the grant stops in a few years.

They are so, so far behind budget to become self funding that more income is needed, that must surely become their primary focus of any advertising.

 

Imagine :

 

The times are hard, I've seen it with my own eyes - the water is leaking and the dragon flies have nowhere to breed, fish are struggling to stay alive, and boats are unable to move. For just £3 per month you could help us repair the leaks and save the lives of these wonderful creatures for the enjoyment of your children and their children. What would life be like without Dragon-Flies ?

Call today and donate just £3 and we promise that we will chase you every month to increase your donations so we can pay for fancy new logos and re-painting all of the vans.

The Dragon-Flies will thank you - we cannot do it without you.

I attended a meeting just over a month ago where Richard Parry put up as his first powerpoint slide a list of C&RT's achievements including 400m visits per year.

In the Q&A I suggested that the figure given was rather old and read out the following pre prepared question -


 

Quote

 

Background

For many years government have acknowledged that its inland waterways provide public benefit. Since 2002/03 the base measure used to determine that benefit has been the number of visitors per average two week period (the peculiarity of this measure derives from a random sample of the public being asked if they have visited an inland waterway within the previous two weeks – any longer and they may have forgotten).

British Waterways stated intention was to double visitors from 3.6m to 7.2m by 2012. It even published year on year targets for visitor numbers. In the event it missed everyone of its targets.

Whilst it managed to increase visitor numbers to 4.3m in 2009/10, by 2012 these had slipped to 3.6m, exactly half of its 7.2m long term target.

As part of its Defra Grant Agreement C&RT have to keep its waterways open to the public. It also has to provide Publication Data including number of towpath visitors.


Question

The following figures are taken from CRT publications with targets in brackets. C&RT’s 2014/15 annual report gives a figure of 4.5m with later years as follows -

2015/16 4.4m (4.6m)

2016/17 4.3m (4.7m)

2017/18 4.3m (4.5m)

2018/19 4.0m* (4.5m)

* Expected figure based on YTD information. Publication data has to be provided by 1 July.

What is C&RT doing to reverse the downward trend in public benefit (including presumably wellbeing benefit) over the last four years?

What can boaters do to help?


 

I did not get any meaningful reply ...

BTW the number of visits has fallen from 402m in 2014/15 to 349m in 2018/19.

 

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On 19/07/2019 at 10:39, Richard10002 said:

I struggle to see how people visiting canals puts money in CRTs coffers? They dont pay to walk/cycle/sit on the towpath. Any money that changes hands is to businesses located on/near the canals. I wonder if CRT are hoping that donations will increase but, if that were the case, you would think the advert would include something to encourage donation?

I agree who pays and who is going to benefit from it

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3 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

I did not get any meaningful reply ...

It seems that C&RT are 'made from Teflon'

 

IT would appear that each of the 4,000,000 visitors made 100 visits per year (to give 400,000,000 visits)

 

That does seem rather an 'ambitious' figure that come, rain, hail, sun or snow, holidays etc etc everyone will still visit the canals twice per week

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36 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It seems that C&RT are 'made from Teflon'

 

IT would appear that each of the 4,000,000 visitors made 100 visits per year (to give 400,000,000 visits)

 

That does seem rather an 'ambitious' figure that come, rain, hail, sun or snow, holidays etc etc everyone will still visit the canals twice per week

You are comparing two week figures and year figures.

The questions are "have you visited within the last two weeks?" and "how many times did you visit?". These will be multiplied by 26 (ish) to give the yearly visits.

To give an example:-

4m visitors per average two week period visiting an average of 4 times each = 16m visits per average two week period 

So for a year that's 16m x 26 = 416m visits.

Unless anyone knows otherwise.

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