Boat Length

[Christine198807]

Hi I'm new to boating and me and my hubby are looking into buying a cabin boat.

I have a odd question but no one seems to ask it.

 

I see boats listed such as 20ft 23ft 26ft and so on, is this really the length of the boat from back to front , or it it the square ft of the boat ?.

Just when I measure it in a straight line 20ft+ it looks huge, yet when i see boats in the canal near me they seem a lot smaller.

Is this an illusion like houses ?, they tend to look so small outside but inside seem larger.

My mind is puzzled.

 

Please its a silly question.

 

[Graham Davis]

The length stated will be the actual length of the boat.

[Timx]

 

[matty40s]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Norman-20-cabin-cruiser-boat-good-condition/323858560736?hash=item4b677976e0:g:HRoAAOSwHqd

 

Presume you mean something like this. 

Yes, the declared length will be within a few inches of its actual length, when they are down in the water and you are looking at them they dont seem so big.

You might find they are listed at 1 inch less than a complete foot, as licence costs with CRT are increased by the foot

[Timx]

It also depends if your being charged by foot for mooring.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Christine198807 said:

its a silly question.

My definition of a silly question is : The one you didn't ask, but should have!

 

I once looked at an 18ft GRP cruiser and walked away after the broker got cross when I asked if he had one for my other foot too.  I have boots bigger than the Norman 18!

 

Proper boats (ie not steel narrowboats!) get much bigger as they get longer.  There is probably twice as much interior space on a 25ft boat as there is on a 20ft boat. 

 

On restricted beam boats (6'10" is typical) not so much - most 57ft narrowboats have very little extra useable space than a 45 or 50 ft boat.

 

Go and look at lots of boats from the inside ... there is no other way to work out what size you want.  Go round the local marinas that sell the sort of boat you are after, and go on every boat you can, even if it's way outside your price range.  You will get a feel of what size suits you after the first hundred or so!

 

 

 

 

[magictime]

I know what you mean about boats looking smaller than they should - if you think of, say, an 18ft by 7ft kitchen, that would be a good size, but an 18ft by 7ft boat is really pretty dinky. Maybe a bit of an illusion like the one you describe with houses, maybe just the difference between picturing an interior space rather than exterior dimensions when you hear '20ft boat'. A 20ft boat might well consist of only a 12ft cabin plus 8ft of front and back decks, say.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 hours ago, Christine198807 said:

I see boats listed such as 20ft 23ft 26ft and so on, is this really the length of the boat from back to front

 

 

When you say 'cabin boat' are you thinking of a GRP (Fibreglass) cruiser type boat, or, a steel 'narrowboat' ?

 

When looking at the 'size of a boat' you need to consider it in 3 dimensions - not just length.

 

We have had a number of narrowboats and been very happy, but at the end of the day you are living in a 6 foot wide tube.

 

Here is a picture of a 32 foot 'GRP narrowboat' moored next to my 35 foot "wide and high" boat.

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Neil2]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

My definition of a silly question is : The one you didn't ask, but should have!

 

I once looked at an 18ft GRP cruiser and walked away after the broker got cross when I asked if he had one for my other foot too.  I have boots bigger than the Norman 18!

 

Proper boats (ie not steel narrowboats!) get much bigger as they get longer.  There is probably twice as much interior space on a 25ft boat as there is on a 20ft boat. 

 

On restricted beam boats (6'10" is typical) not so much - most 57ft narrowboats have very little extra useable space than a 45 or 50 ft boat.

 

Go and look at lots of boats from the inside ... there is no other way to work out what size you want.  Go round the local marinas that sell the sort of boat you are after, and go on every boat you can, even if it's way outside your price range.  You will get a feel of what size suits you after the first hundred or so!

 

 

 

 

This is a fact widely unappreciated among first time narrowboat owners.  I had many conversations last weekend with prospective owners (the marina had an open day on Saturday) most of which were convinced they needed a 60 foot boat.  I then met a lovely couple who were lifting out their 23 foot Wilderness Beaver (which they have owned for 10 years) having spent two months happy cruising on it...  It's all about design, not length.

  

[NB Esk]

 

It's a scientific fact that all boats increase in size when you're trying to steer them through a small gap.....

 

 

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, NB Esk said:

 

It's a scientific fact that all boats increase in size when you're trying to steer them through a small gap.....

 

 

 

And the increase in size of the boat is also proportional to the number of people watching.....

 

 

[magictime]

19 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

On restricted beam boats (6'10" is typical) not so much - most 57ft narrowboats have very little extra useable space than a 45 or 50 ft boat.

 

9 hours ago, Neil2 said:

This is a fact widely unappreciated among first time narrowboat owners.  I had many conversations last weekend with prospective owners (the marina had an open day on Saturday) most of which were convinced they needed a 60 foot boat.  I then met a lovely couple who were lifting out their 23 foot Wilderness Beaver (which they have owned for 10 years) having spent two months happy cruising on it...  It's all about design, not length.

I certainly think there's an element of diminishing returns when adding boat length. Our first boat was 24ft with a 14ft living space inside, and managed to squeeze in a perfectly useable kitchen area, fixed single 'daybed', wet room with shower, convertible dinette, and a surprising amount of storage; our current boat is 55ft with a 38ft(ish) space inside and though of course it does feel more spacious, at the end of the day it's basically still only got the same functional areas plus a fixed double bed.

 

I wonder if there isn't a bit of a jump once you get above 50ft though. I'm talking more about boats I've seen online than in the flesh, but a heck of a lot of 40ft-50ft boats look alarmingly similar in terms of offering a small bathroom, a small bedroom, a small galley and a small saloon... whereas above 50ft you start to see more actual extra living areas (in our case a dinette) rather than just an extra foot or two of space or an extra cupboard dotted here and there throughout the boat.

[Neil2]

26 minutes ago, magictime said:

 

I certainly think there's an element of diminishing returns when adding boat length. Our first boat was 24ft with a 14ft living space inside, and managed to squeeze in a perfectly useable kitchen area, fixed single 'daybed', wet room with shower, convertible dinette, and a surprising amount of storage; our current boat is 55ft with a 38ft(ish) space inside and though of course it does feel more spacious, at the end of the day it's basically still only got the same functional areas plus a fixed double bed.

 

I wonder if there isn't a bit of a jump once you get above 50ft though. I'm talking more about boats I've seen online than in the flesh, but a heck of a lot of 40ft-50ft boats look alarmingly similar in terms of offering a small bathroom, a small bedroom, a small galley and a small saloon... whereas above 50ft you start to see more actual extra living areas (in our case a dinette) rather than just an extra foot or two of space or an extra cupboard dotted here and there throughout the boat.

We had a Springer Waterbug that was basically the same except we had a Squirrel stove as well, and all within 23 foot, we had a foredeck as well...!  That boat was so cleverly designed, I remember the dinette converted to a single bed part of which went under the stern deck.  Of course this couldn't have been done with an inboard engine, but we did meet a couple at Gailey a few weeks ago with the most delightful 27 footer that also had a fixed bed etc and that had an inboard engine.  Other members may have seen this boat it's very distinctive, apparently built by Barry Hawkins for his own use but he ended up selling it.

 

I remember when we had the Springer we used to talk about how much extra space we would have in a longer boat but though the next one was 47 foot - twice as long - it never felt like we had twice as much room, which of course we didn't, but that's the trap it's easy to fall into.

 

TBH I think hire boats show more efficient use of space, because they have to.  So many boats I see in the 55-60 feet bracket just seem to have a bigger sitting room.

 

  

[magictime]

1 minute ago, Neil2 said:

We had a Springer Waterbug that was basically the same except we had a Squirrel stove as well, and all within 23 foot, we had a foredeck as well...!  That boat was so cleverly designed, I remember the dinette converted to a single bed part of which went under the stern deck.  Of course this couldn't have been done with an inboard engine, but we did meet a couple at Gailey a few weeks ago with the most delightful 27 footer that also had a fixed bed etc and that had an inboard engine.  Other members may have seen this boat it's very distinctive, apparently built by Barry Hawkins for his own use but he ended up selling it.

 

I remember when we had the Springer we used to talk about how much extra space we would have in a longer boat but though the next one was 47 foot - twice as long - it never felt like we had twice as much room, which of course we didn't, but that's the trap it's easy to fall into.

 

TBH I think hire boats show more efficient use of space, because they have to.  So many boats I see in the 55-60 feet bracket just seem to have a bigger sitting room.

 

  

Ours (a Midway 235) did have a stove actually, and a small front deck. It was a great little boat actually.

 

I know this seems a bit ridiculous when even the largest narrowboat is so small compared to a house, but I do think a lot of people must have boats far bigger than they need! We appreciate our 55 footer, but that's because we're living aboard all year round and need to store all our stuff and have the space to use and enjoy it - films, books, board games, musical instruments, cooking stuff, four seasons' worth of clothes etc. If we went back to leisure boating, even months-long leisure boating, we'd go back to something much smaller in a heartbeat.

[Neil2]

13 hours ago, magictime said:

Ours (a Midway 235) did have a stove actually, and a small front deck. It was a great little boat actually.

 

I know this seems a bit ridiculous when even the largest narrowboat is so small compared to a house, but I do think a lot of people must have boats far bigger than they need! We appreciate our 55 footer, but that's because we're living aboard all year round and need to store all our stuff and have the space to use and enjoy it - films, books, board games, musical instruments, cooking stuff, four seasons' worth of clothes etc. If we went back to leisure boating, even months-long leisure boating, we'd go back to something much smaller in a heartbeat.

Of course there was a time when most folk started out with a small boat a bit like when I was young most blokes had a motorbike or scooter before they got a car.

 

Nowadays everyone seems to start at the top so they never experience the advantages of a little boat.  

 

Boats are never big enough.  Over the years I've been boating and talking to boat owners it seems to me that every boat is about five feet too short.

 

 

[magictime]

17 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Of course there was a time when most folk started out with a small boat a bit like when I was young most blokes had a motorbike or scooter before they got a car.

 

Nowadays everyone seems to start at the top so they never experience the advantages of a little boat.  

 

Boats are never big enough.  Over the years I've been boating and talking to boat owners it seems to me that every boat is about five feet too short.

 

 

Well, having been through a lot of short, leaky northern locks multiple times, I can honestly say ours seems just right to me at 55ft - given the choice, I'm not at all sure I'd even add the two or three feet to take it to the usually-quoted 'maximum' go-anywhere size.

[BilgePump]

On 16/07/2019 at 23:55, magictime said:

I know what you mean about boats looking smaller than they should - if you think of, say, an 18ft by 7ft kitchen, that would be a good size, but an 18ft by 7ft boat is really pretty dinky. Maybe a bit of an illusion like the one you describe with houses, maybe just the difference between picturing an interior space rather than exterior dimensions when you hear '20ft boat'. A 20ft boat might well consist of only a 12ft cabin plus 8ft of front and back decks, say.

Even among cabin cruisers about the same length and beam, the different designs will give a great variation in the amount of internal space. At 19', a Shetland 570/Kestrel has a cabin that is only about 8'6" long, including the bit under the front deck. Unlike a boatman's cabin, however, it is tapered towards the bow and headroom is a max of 4'6" ish. It is effectively the same size inside as a small two man ridge tent. A bunk down each side and just enough room for a loo on one side and cupboard on the other. The cockpit though is large, larger than most cruiser stern NBs and all trads. Quite popular for inshore fishing and can tow a waterskiier with the right engine. However, something like a Buckingham 20' is only a foot longer, has near enough the same beam but headroom of about 5'8" and a longer cabin, shorter cockpit. It physically looks like a much more imposing boat, both in and out of the water. Much more suitable for the canals and rivers without costing much more to run. A 20' box shape caravan will offer more space still and be enormous inside by comparison to either of these two boats, but a boat shaped like one would never fit through a lot of bridge holes.

 

Over the years our family went from a 16' GRP cabin cruiser through others up to a 60' narrowboat before parents sold it last year. It was way beyond my means to buy it out, but third class boating in a little tupperware tub is infinitely better than first class landlubbing, hence why I started over again on the canal with the cheapest smallest type of boat you can spend a few nights on (for me this was the Shetland 570). Of course the NB was more comfortable but the canal's still the same, there's still a lot of fun to be had with a little boat and the bills come in a lot less. I don't understand the people who have never been on a canal before but based on a few TV programmes have set their sights on moving onto a full length narrowboat. Seems a very expensive gamble if, as is often the case, when winter boating turns out to be a far cry from the idyllic life on the cut they imagined, they then decide that living on the canal isn't the life for them after all. Start small, mistakes will be cheaper, and it will allow the owner to decide what they want from their next, slightly larger boat. If you can hack winter's nights in a freezing cabin cruiser, then you know you will be happy in a narrowboat with a nice log burner. 

 

There are often two lengths shown on boat descriptions

LOA - length overall

LWL - length at the waterline

Boat models will normally be based around the LOA figure (the Shetland 570 is approx 5.7m or around 19' overall but less on the waterline.

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Neil2 said:

Boats are never big enough.  Over the years I've been boating and talking to boat owners it seems to me that every boat is about five feet too short.

 

And five feet too narrow too, according to some on here....

 

 

 

[dor]

And of course boats tend to shrink by a foot or two when it comes to signing up to a mooring or licence.