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Piling hooks not allowed by insurer!


F-P

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The insurer has confirmed that mooring "goat" chains are acceptable if used with canal piling. Pins and hooks are only allowed for short term use.

 

So the message is simple. If you don't have mooring rings on your home mooring use chains to piling, not pins or hooks. Always check with your insurer. Not sure what you do if you only have a soft bank mooring.

Edited by F-P
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Interesting! We use GJW too and left the boat on its home mooring with hooks once years ago soon after getting it..too get a call from the moorings owner to say it had come lose! Use the goat chains always now...although I would imagine/hope levels on the Macc don't go up and down that noticeably, can see this being a real issue elsewhere.

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48 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

Interesting! We use GJW too and left the boat on its home mooring with hooks once years ago soon after getting it..too get a call from the moorings owner to say it had come lose! Use the goat chains always now...although I would imagine/hope levels on the Macc don't go up and down that noticeably, can see this being a real issue elsewhere.

 

 

I too found piling hooks too unreliable to trust. Twice I returned to the boat after leaving it a few hours to find one end loose the the boat swinging around on just one mooring line. Now I use only goat chains or mooring stakes. 

 

I wonder if this tendency to come unhooked is the reason so many boaters feel the need to moor their boats with the centre line too, usually so tight it is heeling the boat over slightly.

 

 

 

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Also with GJW, use hooks for the fore and aft, never had one come out and mostly moor up for 10 - 14 days at a time. Have on occasion had them "pull through", but do me best to put em where the pilling bolts are. 

 

Luckily 2 weeks is in line with their "short term" wording, in my opinion. Though if it's true it ain't in the policy then I've no interest in their opinion anyhow. 

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32 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Don't think my hooks have ever come loose and they're more or less all I've ever ever used while cruising. Home mooring's on scaffold poles. 

 

I mainly use hooks when mooring overnight on piling. Never had any come loose. However I always put the hooks in front of and behind the boat, so that the lines are at 45° to the boat, and ensure the lines are tight.

 

You see so many boats these days with the lines at 90° to the boat (which allows it to move backwards and forwards) with a tight centre line for "security".

I have four CRT style bollards at my permanent mooring, just like those they use on lock landings, and use spring lines there.

Edited by cuthound
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10 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Also with GJW, use hooks for the fore and aft, never had one come out and mostly moor up for 10 - 14 days at a time. Have on occasion had them "pull through", but do me best to put em where the pilling bolts are. 

 

Luckily 2 weeks is in line with their "short term" wording, in my opinion. Though if it's true it ain't in the policy then I've no interest in their opinion anyhow. 

I can find nothing about mooring in my GJW "Plain language Policy Summary" except :

 

If loss or damage occurs whilst your vessel is moored or ashore in a marina you will not lose your no claims bonus and we will not apply the excess.

 

Nothing about 2-weeks or short term.

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47 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Also with GJW, use hooks for the fore and aft, never had one come out and mostly moor up for 10 - 14 days at a time. Have on occasion had them "pull through", but do me best to put em where the pilling bolts are. 

 

Luckily 2 weeks is in line with their "short term" wording, in my opinion. Though if it's true it ain't in the policy then I've no interest in their opinion anyhow. 

I would encourage you to contact them directly or to use chains... the position at the start of my e-mail exchange with them seemed to be that the hooks were not suitable at all.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Don't think my hooks have ever come loose and they're more or less all I've ever ever used while cruising. Home mooring's on scaffold poles. 

Yes - having experimented a lot with our hooks on the piling at our mooring, I struggle to see how correctly used hooks on piling in good condition and near the bolts COULD come loose without a good amount of slack in the rope... but then I imagine there is a lot of variation in the hooks and the piling? 

 

It isn't really unreasonable, and it's no big deal to just use chains instead so we will.

 

The people I spoke to at the insurer seemed unfamiliar with the hooks, pins and chains. I wondered if they were more used to coastal boats. Might be worth running the scaffold pole arrangement past yours...

Edited by F-P
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3 minutes ago, F-P said:

 

The people I spoke to at the insurer seemed unfamiliar with the hooks, pins and chains. I wondered if they were more used to coastal boats. Might be worth running the scaffold pole arrangement past yours...

I don't bother with comprehensive insurance, just 3rd party, so they won't be bothered! I'm on a fairly secure farm mooring on the offside and if anyone was going to nick a boat of the mooring line, it almost certainly wouldn't be mine! 

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22 hours ago, F-P said:

I would encourage you to contact them directly or to use chains... the position at the start of my e-mail exchange with them seemed to be that the hooks were not suitable at all.

Cheers, but if it ain't in the policy I'm not concerned. 

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A couple of points cross my mind...

 

1) If everyone is so confident piling hooks are so secure, why would anyone be concerned that an insurance claim might arise?

 

2) Why not just use goat chains anyway and remove all doubt and concern? Far better to have your boat stay moored up in the first place than to save ten seconds with nappy pins and spend untold hours arguing with the insurance company when they reject your claim after it went over the dangerous weir...

 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Cheers, but if it ain't in the policy I'm not concerned. 

I'd suggest that is the right thing to do.

 

Opens up all sorts of possibilities :-

 

Ooops - sorry, it wasn't shown in the policy documents but as your claim was between 5pm on a Friday and 8:30 on a Monday (ie outside working hours) you are not covered.

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1.  I use nappy pins where Armco is available plus a centre line tied to the boat on the towpath side then across the roof to the water-side handrail.  To untie the boat involves walking down the gunwale (or cutting the rope).  I was not happy with pins at a recent mooring but took the bow/stern ropes through the top eye of the nappy pin but also looped it around the bottom of the pin as well - felt a lot more secure.

2.  I've been eyeing up goat chains recently and was about to pose this questions:  what are the pros and cone of goat chains?  I can see that there is less chance of chafing if only rope is used to moor, they give you a little bit more length of rope to get back to the boat, harder to cut through than rope and nasty peeps may not be able to reach the rope through the end eye, less chance of them 'accidentally' coming loose.  But do they not rattle when boats pass/do they have to be tight/set at 45degrees/how do you store?

So, convince me.....

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I have hooks and chains.  Prefer the hooks.  Never had any clanking problem, just make sure your lines are taut.  The problem I've found with chains, is if I'm moored in one place for a couple of weeks, the chains work their way in between the piling and the uprights holding it.  This can get the chains properly jammed.  One one occassion I just gave up and abandoned the chain.  The benefit of the chain is there's no real way for them to come off without someone deliberately untying you, but has anyone ever had a hook come off other than when they didn't attach it properly in the first place?

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The nappy hooks can get bent and can lift out of the piling if your ropes get lose from changes in water level or just over time if you aren't around to tighten them. Nappy hooks are fine if you are staying with the boat all the time to check them. As you say, only downside of goat chains is that they can get wedged...although I've always been able to free them with the hammer on the rare occasion this does happen...

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1 hour ago, Dave123 said:

As you say, only downside of goat chains is that they can get wedged...although I've always been able to free them with the hammer on the rare occasion this does happen...

 

Yes pass the hammer handle through the ring on the end, then the weight of the hammer can be used to disengage them from behind the armco rail.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes pass the hammer handle through the ring on the end, then the weight of the hammer can be used to disengage them from behind the armco rail.

 

 

And it’s much less likely to happen if you always put them on the other side of a bolt from the boat.

Edited by BruceinSanity
Speeling
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