UK to Comply With EU Ruling on Red Diesel.

[cuthound]

21 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not quite, according to my father-in-law whose career was with BP as a diesel fuels chemist....

 

 

Up until the introduction of ultra low sulphur diesel, gas oil (red diesel) had a lower cetane rating than white diesel. Since then red is just white with a tracer dye added.

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

This question is answered earlier in the thread I think. The outcome has already been decided, so the consultation is simply to marshal support for the decision already made, should any be received. Consultation is mandatory, but abiding by the results is not. But you knew that already I bet!

 

 

I have experienced this before first hand with big organisations, its known as a "one way consultation".

 

To make it clear, its when THEY tell YOU what is going to happen.

 

..................Dave

[cuthound]

7 hours ago, dor said:

How is all this increase in diesel cost, red and white, going to affect the economy of diesel stoves?  I’ve been toying with the idea of replacing my Brunel SF stove with a Bubble, but with the prospect of much higher fuel costs it looks doubtful compared to the £20 a week I would spend on Excel in the winter.

 

My Kabola Old Dutch diesel drip stove uses 0.25 litres an hour on its lowest setting, which keeps the boat at 24°C at around freezing point. So 6 litres per24 hours at say 80p per litre now. 

 

As I have a separate 60 litre tank for it, I could legally buy red diesel in 20 litre containers for it.

[ditchcrawler]

I will be installing a tank and using domestic heating oil at under 50p a lt for heating

[magictime]

12 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I will be installing a tank and using domestic heating oil at under 50p a lt for heating

How/where do you buy the blooming stuff in small enough quantities to store on a boat though? Every time I've looked online I can only find companies wanting to sell me hundreds of litres at a time. We've only got a 50 litre tank and two 20 litre cans.

[ditchcrawler]

Just now, magictime said:

How/where do you buy the blooming stuff in small enough quantities to store on a boat though? Every time I've looked online I can only find companies wanting to sell me hundreds of litres at a time. We've only got a 50 litre tank and two 20 litre cans.

I have a big tank in the back garden, filled up this week at 46.75p /L + vat

[magictime]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I have a big tank in the back garden, filled up this week at 46.75p /L + vat

Ah, that explains it then! If only I had a back garden...

[Iain_S]

Diesel or heating oil?

[magictime]

Just now, Iain_S said:

Diesel or heating oil?

Same stuff isn't it?

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, Iain_S said:

Diesel or heating oil?

heating oil, I use to by diesel as well but always worried about getting it pinched. 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, magictime said:

Same stuff isn't it?

 

No.

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, magictime said:

Same stuff isn't it?

No - different burning rate, and Kerosene (Heating Oil) has no lubricants and does not burn with the same 'energy'.

 

You can run a diesel engine on Kero, but it will (longer term) not do it any good.

 

Kerosene is basically Paraffin that is slightly less refined and still has 'stuff' in it that will smell and produce smoke.

Paraffin is more refined and OK to use in the house in lamps, heaters etc.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[magictime]

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

No.

 

 

Very illuminating, thank you.

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - different burning rate, and Kerosene (Heating Oil) has no lubricants and does not burn with the same 'energy'.

 

You can run a diesel engine on Kero, but it will (longer term) not do it any good.

 

Kerosene is basically Paraffin that is slightly less refined and still has 'stuff' in it that will smell and produce smoke.

Paraffin is more refined and OK to use in the house in lamps, heaters etc.

Ah, OK. Just been Googling now and I can only think I'd read something referring to the European or American markets, where I believe red diesel/gas oil is the same as 'domestic heating oil'.

[mayalld]

10 hours ago, magictime said:

How/where do you buy the blooming stuff in small enough quantities to store on a boat though? Every time I've looked online I can only find companies wanting to sell me hundreds of litres at a time. We've only got a 50 litre tank and two 20 litre cans.

There are petrol stations that sell red diesel.

 

I know that I go to one on the way to work (Wentworth Business Park Roundabout, Barnsley J35 of the M1)

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, mayalld said:

There are petrol stations that sell red diesel.

 

I know that I go to one on the way to work (Wentworth Business Park Roundabout, Barnsley J35 of the M1)

Many petrol station around us (rural) sell red diesel but its not much cheaper than white'

Last time I looked at our nearest one, Red was £1.15 and White £1.30

[mayalld]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Many petrol station around us (rural) sell red diesel but its not much cheaper than white'

Last time I looked at our nearest one, Red was £1.15 and White £1.30

I will have to check the price and report back

[dmr]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Many petrol station around us (rural) sell red diesel but its not much cheaper than white'

Last time I looked at our nearest one, Red was £1.15 and White £1.30

The bigger petrol stations appear to do this?, but some smaller ones are still cheap, I was paying about 80p in Yorkshire over the winter.

 

............Dave

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - different burning rate, and Kerosene (Heating Oil) has no lubricants and does not burn with the same 'energy'.

 

You can run a diesel engine on Kero, but it will (longer term) not do it any good.

 

Kerosene is basically Paraffin thchandlat is slightly less refined and still has 'stuff' in it that will smell and produce smoke.

Paraffin is more refined and OK to use in the house in lamps, heaters etc.

It might be possible to run on heating oil if you add a lubricity additive, and maybe a cetane booster, both easily available. However three years ago a reputable boat yard sold us some bad diesel that I suspect was heating oil and it smoked very badly and significantly reduced the power output of the engine.

 

...............Dave

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, dmr said:

It might be possible to run on heating oil if you add a lubricity additive, and maybe a cetane booster, both easily available. However three years ago a reputable boat yard sold us some bad diesel that I suspect was heating oil and it smoked very badly and significantly reduced the power output of the engine.

 

...............Dave

Interesting. I once picked up some diesel that was definitely poor. As in your experience, it smoked a lot and engine seemed gutless. Makes me wonder.

[Jess--]

we have a 10kva diesel generator that is rated to run on diesel or heating oil,

however for heating oil it notes that you should derate the output to 9kva, that the exhaust will be smoky and that the time between oil and filter changes should be halved

[ditchcrawler]

I wont be running the engine on heating oil, just the cooker/heating. If I have to put a second tank in and also have to carry the stuff I may as well carry the cheapest possible

[Chris Williams]

3 hours ago, catweasel said:

Interesting. I once picked up some diesel that was definitely poor. As in your experience, it smoked a lot and engine seemed gutless. Makes me wonder.

Likewise. Engine would miss a beat and send a ball of crud up the exhaust.  Had to clean the injectors. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Chris Williams said:

Likewise. Engine would miss a beat and send a ball of crud up the exhaust.  Had to clean the injectors. 

Now you mention it, I do remember thinking that it was on three cylinders at times (4 cyl engine.) It was along time ago now so must have got lucky with the injectors. It was also unusually reluctant to start, and I noticed a strange smell from the exhaust, almost like a thinners or turpentine sort of smell (I have a nose like the proverbial, to make up for being Mutt and Jeff, and half blind ) That was the only time I was happy to have used my tank of diesel up.
Maybe the Marine 16 that I normally use managed to help clear the injectors etc?

Edited July 19, 2019 by Guest

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, dmr said:

It might be possible to run on heating oil if you add a lubricity additive, and maybe a cetane booster, both easily available. However three years ago a reputable boat yard sold us some bad diesel that I suspect was heating oil and it smoked very badly and significantly reduced the power output of the engine.

 

...............Dave

Two stroke mineral oil according to the internet will do

[Alan de Enfield]

Red diesel will always be available at prices below what you are paying now and can be purchased in 205 litre drums delivered to your boat (but will also be illegal to use)

 

If the argument is then "who will find out" why are you not already running the boat using kerosene with the necessary additives - an 'illegal' (totally duty free) fuel ?

 

 

 

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Edited July 19, 2019 by Alan de Enfield