Building or buying our unicorn boat

[Skin]

Hi All

 

I'm Mark and together with my other half Sarah we are looking to embark on the next stage of our lives and start living on a narrowboat, myself full time and Sarah part time.

 

We have a budget of around £100,000 and a whole shedload of questions before we rush starry eyed to our nearest broker and hand over our life savings.

 

Here,is a list of requirements for the boat and my question is, is it possible?, has anyone seen something like this? and if so what would be the price point? and finally am I mad?

 

OK, as we would like to travel all the network I'm looking at a 58' foot boat with the following

- Lots of power, I'm a photographer who uses a desktop CPU system as well running a blog and my other half grows chilis and St Johns Wort hydropically in a grow tent under a single 600w HPS buld that needs to run around 12hrs a day and a smaller CFL lamp at 125w which runs at 16 to 18 hrs a day, as well as the ususal TV possible bow thrusters, radio etc, so what sort of power would I need to run that lot?, a generator teamed with solar?, massed banks of batteries?

 

- Fitting, One of our pet peeves is narrowboats with interiors that look like 80s styled flats, all glittery worktops, we want to feel like we are living on a boat and an old one at that, dark recliamed aged wood, antiqued brass fittings, a cross between an old wooden motorboat and the nautilus (is any of this making sense?) could anyone point us in the direction of someone who is willing to deviate from the narrowboat interior norm? 

 

- Propulsion, we both like the idea of a quiet electric drive or even a biofuel powered engine? are either solutions viable at the current time? (I plan to be on a constant cruising licence and be travelling a LOT)

 

- Paintwork, I see so so many of the same colors and designs on UK narrowboats, is anyone doing custom paintjobs?, is it frowned upon?, we know through our work quite a few artists and a couple are interested in doing a full airbrushed finish, but not if we are going to get egged and booed at every overnight stop, a strange question I know

 

Right I will leave it there otherwise the question list will grow exponentially, thanks for reading and as my other half is leaning over my shoulder remarking "They are going to think this is a joke" I assure you that it's not

 

I'll try to attach some shots to illustrate my ramblings

[doratheexplorer]

24 minutes ago, Skin said:

Hi All

 

I'm Mark and together with my other half Sarah we are looking to embark on the next stage of our lives and start living on a narrowboat, myself full time and Sarah part time.

 

We have a budget of around £100,000 and a whole shedload of questions before we rush starry eyed to our nearest broker and hand over our life savings.

 

Here,is a list of requirements for the boat and my question is, is it possible?, has anyone seen something like this? and if so what would be the price point? and finally am I mad?

 

OK, as we would like to travel all the network I'm looking at a 58' foot boat with the following

- Lots of power, I'm a photographer who uses a desktop CPU system as well running a blog and my other half grows chilis and St Johns Wort hydropically in a grow tent under a single 600w HPS buld that needs to run around 12hrs a day and a smaller CFL lamp at 125w which runs at 16 to 18 hrs a day, as well as the ususal TV possible bow thrusters, radio etc, so what sort of power would I need to run that lot?, a generator teamed with solar?, massed banks of batteries?

High electric consumption doesn't mix well with a cruising narrowboat.  A big solar array coupled with a decent battery bank will see you ok from Marchish to Octoberish but what about winter?  MId November to end of January you'll get nothing worth bothering with from your solar.  So what then?  A generator running 12 hours a day will seriously piss off neighbouring boats.  As will a boat engine-  unless it's crazy quiet.  The cost would be exorbitant too.  If I were you I'd cruise from March to October and then stay in a marina over winter on a hook up.  Lots of the network shuts over winter anyway.

 

Quote

- Fitting, One of our pet peeves is narrowboats with interiors that look like 80s styled flats, all glittery worktops, we want to feel like we are living on a boat and an old one at that, dark recliamed aged wood, antiqued brass fittings, a cross between an old wooden motorboat and the nautilus (is any of this making sense?) could anyone point us in the direction of someone who is willing to deviate from the narrowboat interior norm? 

Any of the good smaller builders will happily do this.  If you'd gone to the Crick Show you could have chatted with some, but you've missed that now.

 

- Propulsion, we both like the idea of a quiet electric drive or even a biofuel powered engine? are either solutions viable at the current time? (I plan to be on a constant cruising licence and be travelling a LOT)

How would you charge this electric engine - you'd just be adding to the electric isssues I've mentioned above.

Lots of simple older narrowboat engines will run on biodiesel.

 

- Paintwork, I see so so many of the same colors and designs on UK narrowboats, is anyone doing custom paintjobs?, is it frowned upon?, we know through our work quite a few artists and a couple are interested in doing a full airbrushed finish, but not if we are going to get egged and booed at every overnight stop, a strange question I know

Lots of options and yes, lots of talented bespoke painters.  Not sure that airbrushing would give a durable finish though.  Boats get scraped a lot.  Here's an example of a good custom painter: https://www.cheshirebrush.co.uk/

Some nice projects on the page.

 

Quote

 

Right I will leave it there otherwise the question list will grow exponentially, thanks for reading and as my other half is leaning over my shoulder remarking "They are going to think this is a joke" I assure you that it's not

 

I'll try to attach some shots to illustrate my ramblings

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by doratheexplorer

[Captain Fizz]

Hi Mark and welcome.

No, you are not mad, some of those interior shots are wonderfull

Electric powered boats are becoming more popular but unfortunately, methods of battery recharging as a constant cruiser are going to be your biggest problem.

Without mains electricity, the only method available would be a large generator. this rather usurps the whole point of going electric, you may as well just use a conventional engine.

Bio fuel is an option, but how would you obtain it on the cut?

With regard to paintwork, a beautifully airbrushed boat would I suggest, only provoke admiring comments and interesting debate.

Good luck with your quest!!

 

Simon

[Jen-in-Wellies]

41 minutes ago, Skin said:

OK, as we would like to travel all the network I'm looking at a 58' foot boat with the following

- Lots of power, I'm a photographer who uses a desktop CPU system as well running a blog and my other half grows chilis and St Johns Wort hydropically in a grow tent under a single 600w HPS buld that needs to run around 12hrs a day and a smaller CFL lamp at 125w which runs at 16 to 18 hrs a day, as well as the ususal TV possible bow thrusters, radio etc, so what sort of power would I need to run that lot?, a generator teamed with solar?, massed banks of batteries?

The most common questions on here are on electricity and replacing it in the batteries. The only way to run a 725W of power for grow lamps is with a generator, running basically every hour that is allowed under CaRT rules. You'll want a built in diesel generator for noise reasons, both you and your neighbours, but this will set you back around £10k and cost a lot in fuel and maintenance. I'd suggest that this hobby isn't going to be compatible and it would be a lot cheaper to just buy in your chillis and St John's Wort. For computing, try to reduce the power usage. What is the real minimum spec you need to do your work?

 

41 minutes ago, Skin said:

Propulsion, we both like the idea of a quiet electric drive or even a biofuel powered engine? are either solutions viable at the current time? (I plan to be on a constant cruising licence and be travelling a LOT)

Diesel is the only fuel that won't limit your travelling. Electric has to be generated somehow. Biofuel isn't available on the cut. There isn't the charging infrastructure (yet). With lots of solar panels and I mean a lot, plus lithium batteries, electric boating can be done, at least in summer. Search for @peterboat's description of his wide beam. At the moment you are basically on your own, with engineering your own system with happy fun exploding battery banks and fires if you get it wrong!

 

41 minutes ago, Skin said:

Fitting, One of our pet peeves is narrowboats with interiors that look like 80s styled flats, all glittery worktops, we want to feel like we are living on a boat and an old one at that, dark recliamed aged wood, antiqued brass fittings, a cross between an old wooden motorboat and the nautilus (is any of this making sense?) could anyone point us in the direction of someone who is willing to deviate from the narrowboat interior norm? 

I totally agree and love the example pictures. You may end up having to do a refit on the interior. You have a reasonable budget, so could end up with something rather good.

 

41 minutes ago, Skin said:

Paintwork, I see so so many of the same colors and designs on UK narrowboats, is anyone doing custom paintjobs?, is it frowned upon?, we know through our work quite a few artists and a couple are interested in doing a full airbrushed finish, but not if we are going to get egged and booed at every overnight stop, a strange question I know

Yes there are. A recent example in General Boating. Very late 60's, early 70's. Most boats are rather traditional on the outside, but some owners do go wild! The paintwork leads a hard life. Knocked and scratched by vegetation, other boats and canal infrastructure, so it needs to be able to be touched up easily, which s harder to do with an air brushed finished without it being obvious.

 

Oh and welcome to CWDF. May I suggest getting a secondhand boat that is set up for living aboard, living on it it for a year, or so, then going for your ultimate boat. The depreciation will be small and you'll learn a lot about what is practical and what you really want in that time. These will likely be very different from what you think now.

 

Jen

Edited July 15, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies

[IanD]

Your power use is something well over 10kWh per day. If you don't want to run a generator all the time and aren't plugged in, the only alternative is a damn big battery bank (at least 600Ah/48V), a big inverter, and something that can charge those batteries quickly (at 5-10kW) -- either a big cocooned diesel generator (something like a Northern Lights one), or a properly soundproofed diesel engine with a big alternator like the Integrel, or a hybrid system like the one from Hybrid Marine (or their Power Station). Solar would help in the summer but you'd need a lot of area and it's useless in winter.

http://www.hybrid-marine.co.uk/14.html

https://www.integrelmarine.com/

Whichever way you go you're not going to get much change out of 25 grand for the electrical/charging/propulsion system, which is a quarter of your entire boat budget. It makes growing chillies and St John's Wort an *extremely* expensive hobby, unless you sell then for an arm and a leg each...

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Skin said:

Here,is a list of requirements for the boat and my question is, is it possible?, has anyone seen something like this? and if so what would be the price point? and finally am I mad?

We all have dreams about our ideal boat, but most of us have boated for many years to come to realise there is a difference between what we need, what we want, and what is achievable.

 

I am afraid I am going to have to kill the unicorn.

 

A boat is not a 'floating house' - all utilities and services have to be provided by YOU.

You have to carry the gas cylinders on board

You have to fill up the water tank

You have to fill up the fuel tank

You have to generate the electricity to replace what has been used.

 

There is no 'flicking a switch or turning a tap' with  an unlimited supply of electricity, water or gas.

 

A Narrowboat will give you the ability to navigate the whole system - but how many times have we seen "must have a 57 foot NB because I want to do the system" and even years later they have not even done part of the system. Will you REALLY REALLY need / want to do the whole system ?

 

A narrowboat will not give you the ability to have sufficient space to achieve what you want. Remember it is a steel tube 6 foot wide and 6 foot high x 58 feet overall length (often called sewer-tubes) Living in a corridor.

Take off about 8 or 9 foot for the pointy bit at the front, take off 8 foot (or more) for the stern / engine room, take off 8 foot for the bedroom, take of 6 / 8  foot for the toilet & bathroom, take off 6 foot+ for the kitchen, take off 12 / 14 foot for the lounge and you are left with about 8 feet x 6 feet x 6 feet unaccounted for (for your office, greenhouse, dining area, whatever)

 

Let me say - I have had several narrowboats and enjoyed them BUT having had widebeams there is absolutely no comparison for the space and comfort. You don't need ridiculously 'wide' 12 foot is twice as wide as a NB (my current boat is 14') but the whole layout is more 'square-room' like.

 

You can use your widebeam for a few years in (say) the North half of the country and then have it loaded onto a truck and dropped back in in the South. There is a 'line' across roughly Birmingham to Leicester which is narrow beam only - above and below this line is 'widebeam'

 

You won't get a new widebeam for £100,000 (somewhere approaching £200-250k more likely) but you could pick up a 2nd hand one and gradually 'make it your own' (as they say).

 

You can get a LOT more solar panels on a fatty than you can an anorexic sewer-tube.

 

Give it some thought !!!

 

Map of the inland waterways showing where fat boats can go.

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

Please don't buy a widebeam. 

 

1.  It's not just the fact that you exclude all those narrow canals, it's that those as generally the best canals.

2.  Extended cruising on anything wider than the norm is degrees harder than on a narrowboat.  Visibility can be poor and the canals down south just were not designed for them.  If you just want to potter around Yorkshire and the Trent, it's fine.  Otherwise, no.

3.  Other boaters will be annoyed by you.  See :

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by doratheexplorer

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Please don't buy a widebeam. 

 

1.  It's not just the fact that you exclude all those narrow canals, it's that those as generally the best canals.

2.  Extended cruising on anything wider than the norm is degrees harder than on a narrowboat.  Visibility can be poor and the canals down south just were designed for them.  If you just want to potter around Yorkshire and the Trent, it's fine.  Otherwise, no.

3.  Other boaters will be annoyed by you.  See :

 

 

Tosh. 

 

On the correct canals a widebeam is perfect.

 

On narrow canals a widebeam is a nightmare.

 

Use the right tool in the right application to do the job.

[doratheexplorer]

 

Just to add:

 

I grow chillies on my boat.  I start them off in spring in a plug tray on my draining rack in front of my kitchen window.  From June onwards I transplant them to growbags on my roof of medium sized pots on my rear deck.  I don't use any additional power and I edn up with some really big and tasty chillies.

 

The more I think about it, the idea of growing plants under high powered lights while cruising on a boat simply doesn't work.  Most liveaboards had to give things up from our previous life, some big, some small.  For me it was my precious chickens.  I spent months trying to work out how to bring them with me until I had to accept I was putting my needs ahead of theirs.  They didn't want to come and were happier staying on land.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Skin said:

Right I will leave it there otherwise the question list will grow exponentially, thanks for reading and as my other half is leaning over my shoulder remarking "They are going to think this is a joke" I assure you that it's not

 

 

Given your budget I can assure you it IS a joke. £100k will buy you quite a decent new bog standard ordinary narrow boat.  With your wish list I suggest upping your budget to £300k... so far...

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Tosh. 

 

On the correct canals a widebeam is perfect.

 

On narrow canals a widebeam is a nightmare.

 

Use the right tool in the right application to do the job.

Not tosh.  I'd agree that on the correct canals, a widebeam is acceptable.  These canals exist in a fairly small geographical area around Yorkshire and neighbouring counties.

 

I'll say again, the best canals are generally the narrow canals.  The only people who dispute this are widebeam owners.

 

Oh and standard widebeam narrowboats are fugly.  Dutch Barges look lovely but have even more issues with draft and air draft once you leave the rivers.

[Clodi]

There are some really lovely 'Old' & Steampunk fit-outs around it wouldn't be too hard to get what you're after but as for growing hydroponically with grow lights extractors etc I would suggest that you set-up independently rather than using your domestic supply, unless of course you are on shore-power.

We used to have a couple of polytunnels with grow-tents set-up on our smallholding, it was cheaper and easier to have them individually powered with solar panels and a Rutland windmill than run armored cable up from the cottage.

Here's a nice example of an 'old fit-out

Edited July 15, 2019 by Clodi
add link

[Ssscrudddy]

Hmm there is only plant I know of that needs 12 hours of lights, & if it doesn't get it it does its thing early resulting in a somewhat weak & not particularly satisfying experience, & it aint chilis! 

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, Ssscrudddy said:

Hmm there is only plant I know of that needs 12 hours of lights, & if it doesn't get it it does its thing early resulting in a somewhat weak & not particularly satisfying experience, & it aint chilis! 

Is that the one where the 'heat' shows up thru' the roof, and can be picked up by the Infra-Red in the Police helicopter ?

[doratheexplorer]

24 minutes ago, Ssscrudddy said:

Hmm there is only plant I know of that needs 12 hours of lights, & if it doesn't get it it does its thing early resulting in a somewhat weak & not particularly satisfying experience, & it aint chilis! 

I didn't like to mention that!

[Alan de Enfield]

Brother in Law was a Police Inspector, on one of his visits he leaned on the wall and said your realise that growing those chillies is illegal.

 

We had an aviary / flight full of Parrots.

We used to throw the left over seed over the wall into the field and had developed an excellent crop of 6 foot high chillies* without any artificial light or heat. (But Wales is like that !!)

 

*We were not aware they were chillies, just though they were weeds growing amongst the nettles. The Horses and Rabbits loved eating them.

 

 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

On 15/07/2019 at 12:59, Skin said:

Hi All

 

I'm Mark and together with my other half Sarah we are looking to embark on the next stage of our lives and start living on a narrowboat, myself full time and Sarah part time.

 

We have a budget of around £100,000 and a whole shedload of questions before we rush starry eyed to our nearest broker and hand over our life savings.

...

Fitting, One of our pet peeves is narrowboats with interiors that look like 80s styled flats, all glittery worktops, we want to feel like we are living on a boat and an old one at that, dark recliamed aged wood, antiqued brass fittings, a cross between an old wooden motorboat and the nautilus (is any of this making sense?) could anyone point us in the direction of someone who is willing to deviate from the narrowboat interior norm? 

...

Paintwork, I see so so many of the same colors and designs on UK narrowboats, is anyone doing custom paintjobs?, is it frowned upon?, we know through our work quite a few artists and a couple are interested in doing a full airbrushed finish, but not if we are going to get egged and booed at every overnight stop, a strange question I know

 

 

It will be your boat, Only you will see the inside, so fit it out however you like. It is nobody else's business. Ease of resale might be in issue in years to come, but you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

Paint the outside however you want. Whatever you do, someone won't like it, but it's your money and you're the ones who will have to look at the boat every day. If anyone criticises your taste, that's their problem, not yours.

 

Having said all that, we have a boring blue boat with minimal decoration and a decidedly 1990's plain interior!

 

 

PS if you want to go "everywhere", a 58ft narrowboat is the best bet.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Ssscrudddy said:

Hmm there is only plant I know of that needs 12 hours of lights, & if it doesn't get it it does its thing early resulting in a somewhat weak & not particularly satisfying experience, & it aint chilis! 

Interesting line on one of the cop shows on TV yesterday when they pulled a bunch of youngsters over and the car driver confessed to having taken cannabis, the female copper gave him a mouth swab and suggested he changed his suppler, he was clean.

[mrsmelly]

On 15/07/2019 at 15:07, doratheexplorer said:

Not tosh.  I'd agree that on the correct canals, a widebeam is acceptable.  These canals exist in a fairly small geographical area around Yorkshire and neighbouring counties.

 

I'll say again, the best canals are generally the narrow canals.  The only people who dispute this are widebeam owners.

 

Oh and standard widebeam narrowboats are fugly.  Dutch Barges look lovely but have even more issues with draft and air draft once you leave the rivers.

I am a narrowboat owner and that is tosh ?. Widebeam boats are superior in every way to sewer tubes there is only one reason we all have to buy sewer tubes and thats the poxy narrow locks we have been left with. There are many miles of wide waterways only spoilt by a narrow bit mid England. Widebeams are far more than just acceptable, they are better if used in the correct place. I reckon you have probably only ever owned a sewer tube? I find the most noise comes from those with the least boat type experience. My widebeam was bloomin fab 

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I am a narrowboat owner and that is tosh ?. Widebeam boats are superior in every way to sewer tubes there is only one reason we all have to buy sewer tubes and thats the poxy narrow locks we have been left with. There are many miles of wide waterways only spoilt by a narrow bit mid England. Widebeams are far more than just acceptable, they are better if used in the correct place. I reckon you have probably only ever owned a sewer tube? I find the most noise comes from those with the least boat type experience. My widebeam was bloomin fab 

I think you are right,unfortunately, or fortunately, which ever way you look at it I enjoy a lot of canals where a widebeam wouldn't fit

[mrsmelly]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

I think you are right,unfortunately, or fortunately, which ever way you look at it I enjoy a lot of canals where a widebeam wouldn't fit

Yes I agree, thats why we are narrow again as there is no choice if a large cruising range is wanted/needed. I do find it strange though that many narrowboat owners dont realise that its the poxy narrow beam that is weird re dimensions. Not many countries are rushing to scrap their systems and install narrow locks!! 

[RLWP]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes I agree, thats why we are narrow again as there is no choice if a large cruising range is wanted/needed. I do find it strange though that many narrowboat owners dont realise that its the poxy narrow beam that is weird re dimensions. Not many countries are rushing to scrap their systems and install narrow locks!! 

Of course they are weird. As is living in a tin box floating in water

 

Nothing about canal boats makes any sense - what's your point?

 

Richard

[mrsmelly]

Just now, RLWP said:

Of course they are weird. As is living in a tin box floating in water

 

Nothing about canal boats makes any sense - what's your point?

 

Richard

My point old bean is that for unknown reasons on this and other threads many peeps slang off widebeam boats. Many of those peeps have never owned or indeed been aboard one!! On the correct waterway widebeams are vastly superior to sewer tubes, myself and many others only live on sewer tubes as we have no choice if we want to move around a lot. Boats are like cars, an MX5 is fab for a 25 year old with a girlfriend, an mX5 is useless when he has 3 kids as well. 

[RLWP]

49 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

My point old bean is that for unknown reasons on this and other threads many peeps slang off widebeam boats. Many of those peeps have never owned or indeed been aboard one!! On the correct waterway widebeams are vastly superior to sewer tubes, myself and many others only live on sewer tubes as we have no choice if we want to move around a lot. Boats are like cars, an MX5 is fab for a 25 year old with a girlfriend, an mX5 is useless when he has 3 kids as well. 

I fail to see how one persons ideal boat is in any way superior to another persons ideal boat. There's no logic that you can sensibly apply to illogical decisions

 

And owning a canal boat is entirely illogical. So slagging off widebeams or in your words sewer tubes is nothing more than personal opinion

 

Richard

[mrsmelly]

Just now, RLWP said:

I fail to see how one persons ideal boat is in any way superior to another persons ideal boat. There's no logic that you can sensibly apply to illogical decisions

 

And owning a canal boat is entirely illogical. So slagging off widebeams or in your words sewer tubes is nothing more than personal opinion

 

Richard

This is true, but for every one post slanging off narrow beam boats on this forum I will show you twenty slanging widebeams off!! This forum is populated by narrowbeam owners in the main and not many of them have ever owned nor indeed steered owt else yet pass opinions on something they know nothing of. Anyway owning a canal boat is far from illogical. Houses are illogical, they make zero sense. They are boring, dont move, and flood in heavy rain ?