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Lister JP expert in Ashton under Lyne?


Andy_B

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Hi folks 

 

Anyone know of a mechanic with knowledge of the Blackstone gearbox fitted to the JP engines, within shout of Ashton under Lyne?

 

What we have is a box which - even when very tightly adjusted - still slips badly in Forward gear. 

I can only assume that it has run out of friction material in the plates and is down to steel-on-steel.

 

Happy for any input - contacts as above or ideas of things to try, how to take it apart etc. 

 

Cheers

 

Andy

 

 

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Hi Richard

 

Thanks for engaging

 

Quite a lot really - struggling to quantify slippage - much more than usual ( I've been occasionally doing the 1/4 turn adjustment over the last 4 years) with a normal amount of nip.

Stuck in the middle of the cut yesterday I put it in gear and screwed up the adjusters as tight as possible , which got me moving again., but I can barely haul it into neutral now, and after re-engaging it was slipping again (hot last night after a run down from Bugsworth though not as much.

 

Sorry for the complicated answer to your straightforward question.  What are you thinking?

 

Andy

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That's a perfect answer. On a 2G gearbox, I'd say the spider at the end of the clutch pack had broken. I don't have a lot of experience on the gearboxes on JPs but that does sound like a similar symptom

 

Richard

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Oh!  

 

I learned a lot from your "what's in the box" series - it looks identical to your photos inside.  Thanks so much for that series.

 

Couple of questions:

1/ There seems to be no steel framing to the friction (phenolic) plates.  Do you suppose it is possible to wear right through one or both of them?

2/ Do you know where I can find replacement plates?  What should I ask for?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

 

)

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Can you get to Guide Bridge, a mile from Portland Basin? At our yard, Steve  K. has an HR2 with Blackstone box in his boat, he might know the fix?

Maybe, just walk down without the boat for a chat, pretty sure he will be there today. Postcode M34 5HW.

Bill

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2 minutes ago, billh said:

Can you get to Guide Bridge, a mile from Portland Basin? At our yard, Steve  K. has an HR2 with Blackstone box in his boat, he might know the fix?

Maybe, just walk down without the boat for a chat, pretty sure he will be there today. Postcode M34 5HW.

Bill

Good plan

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Hi Bill

 

Thanks for responding - do you have a phone number for Steve / the yard?  I can toddle down there, and if necessary haul the boat down.

Guide bridge is an the Ashton, right?  I think it's going to be a box-dismantling job from what I have learned this morning.   

 

I have sent you a PM with my mobile number.

I'm fine waiting until tomorrow if not.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

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If it helps the “ahead” plates are just the friction material sandwiched between separate steel “discs”. From your description it sounds like theve totally warn out or disintegrated. 

 

It’s going to need the reduction box taking off.... gearbox top casing removing.. the reverse brake band assembly & cross shafts etc removing then the mainshaft with the planet gears etc. can be lifted out as one ...then the fun starts! It’s not a 5 minute job sadly. 

 

Id also be checking the sump in the engine for the remains of the plates...suck the oil out and wash it down with paraffin. You don’t want an oilway clogged. 

 

Personally id be getting the gear cluster overhauled while you have it in so many bits too. To give you some idea I paid Llewellins gears in Bristol about £1.5k a few years ago to overhaul my 3G box..and I stripped most of it down and gave them a kit of parts....vintage machinery isn’t cheap to keep!

 

As well as Richard another source of 3G parts is Marine Power Services in Southampton. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, frangar said:

If it helps the “ahead” plates are just the friction material sandwiched between separate steel “discs”. From your description it sounds like theve totally warn out or disintegrated. 

Sort-of - on this 'box the plates are - were - built on steel carriers.  Looks like there was some sintered material on there once on a day.  But indeed it has totally worn out

 

It’s going to need the reduction box taking off.... gearbox top casing removing.. the reverse brake band assembly & cross shafts etc removing then the mainshaft with the planet gears etc. can be lifted out as one ...then the fun starts! It’s not a 5 minute job sadly. 

fortunately this boat has no reduction - but yes, it still took a while to get the lid off!

 

Id also be checking the sump in the engine for the remains of the plates...suck the oil out and wash it down with paraffin. You don’t want an oilway clogged. 

there's a little sump in the gearbox with a weir into the engine sump - and yes it was full of fine debris

 

couple of comments above from today's investigation by Jason from https://www.bollington-wharf.com/  Parts hunting in progress.

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5 hours ago, frangar said:

If it helps the “ahead” plates are just the friction material sandwiched between separate steel “discs”. From your description it sounds like theve totally warn out or disintegrated. 

Sort-of - on this 'box the plates are - were - built on steel carriers.  Looks like there was some sintered material on there once on a day.  But indeed it has totally worn out

 

It’s going to need the reduction box taking off.... gearbox top casing removing.. the reverse brake band assembly & cross shafts etc removing then the mainshaft with the planet gears etc. can be lifted out as one ...then the fun starts! It’s not a 5 minute job sadly. 

fortunately this boat has no reduction - but yes, it still took a while to get the lid off!

 

Id also be checking the sump in the engine for the remains of the plates...suck the oil out and wash it down with paraffin. You don’t want an oilway clogged. 

there's a little sump in the gearbox with a weir into the engine sump - and yes it was full of fine debris

 

couple of comments above from today's investigation by Jason from https://www.bollington-wharf.com/  Parts hunting in progress.

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19 hours ago, Andy_B said:

couple of comments above from today's investigation by Jason from https://www.bollington-wharf.com/  Parts hunting in progress.

If the bottom of the box had material in it then I’d be checking the engine sump. Whip the big side door off and drain the sump. It’s worth taking the filter off which can be a fiddle but it’s amazing the crud that can live under it. Also check the gauze filters in the oil tank if you have them. 

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3 hours ago, frangar said:

If the bottom of the box had material in it then I’d be checking the engine sump. Whip the big side door off and drain the sump. It’s worth taking the filter off which can be a fiddle but it’s amazing the crud that can live under it. Also check the gauze filters in the oil tank if you have them. 

Removing the gauze filter is hard but refitting it without crossthreading is harder! 

 Well worth the effort though, i remove the door and clean the sump thoroughly every oil change. 

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24 minutes ago, BWM said:

Removing the gauze filter is hard but refitting it without crossthreading is harder! 

 Well worth the effort though, i remove the door and clean the sump thoroughly every oil change. 

Out of interest, is the inside of your crankcase painted?

 

Richard

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4 minutes ago, BWM said:

I don't think so, i've never noticed any.

I've come across marine JP engines with the inside of the crankcase painted a cream colour which makes working in there easier

 

Richard

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6 hours ago, RLWP said:

Out of interest, is the inside of your crankcase painted?

 

Richard

Mine is painted a shade of red lead. 

 

6 hours ago, BWM said:

Removing the gauze filter is hard but refitting it without crossthreading is harder! 

 Well worth the effort though, i remove the door and clean the sump thoroughly every oil change. 

I don’t find it hard to get the nut back on but actually getting the filter back in can involve manipulating the piston position a fair bit as you put the assembly back. That’s on a twin. 

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No indeed. I didn't see the new plates, but Jason said they looked like steel too. I'd have expected say sintered bronze. An option might've been to get the inner plates relined, I suppose.  I've retained the detritus from the sump in the gearbox for analysis later.

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