Battery charging problem

[Rob-M]

2 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

One important mystery still remains Tony. Why does running the engine still not charge the domestic bank (whatever voltage it turns out to be)?

 

Granted the OP hasn't mentioned whether or not he has tried running the engine, I don't think....

 

 

The OP said in the last post he didn't run the engine for two weeks.

[cutandpolished61]

Mike, well the handover was a disaster. The broker didn't know anything about the boat and I didn't know the questions I should have asked. Kind of overwhelming the whole experience. Far more complex this vessel compared to just pick up a hire boat. I have to check this all when I get back to the boat tomorrow evening. What I noticed when the batteries were flat that I was able to start the engine without any problems and the current was back straight away. As I didn't run the engine for a long time as it was night and i'm in a marina the lights started fading again after 30 minute or so.

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

the lights started fading again after 30 minute or so.

The batteries are 'dead'.

 

Once you have sorted out getting a charger working for the domestic battery bank (be it via land line or the alternator) get the batteries replaced, or you will be sitting in the dark for the next couple of weeks.

 

Having a nicely charged domestic bank, has the added benefit of being able to jump-start the engine starter battery if you have problems with that.

It could be something as simple as having a blocked fuel filter - you change the filter and then flatten the starter battery trying to get fuel fed thru' the system. Always useful having full batteries to back you up.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Mike, well the handover was a disaster. The broker didn't know anything about the boat

 

Typical of Great Hayward, I've heard. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

What I noticed when the batteries were flat that I was able to start the engine without any problems and the current was back straight away. As I didn't run the engine for a long time as it was night and i'm in a marina the lights started fading again after 30 minute or so.

 

Ok that suggests the engine DOES charge the batteries, but if they were so flat the lights were dim then running it a short time would have exactly the effect you describe. To fully charge batts this flat, an engine needs to run about 18 hours prolly. There is also a significant chance they are terminally damaged and need replacing (again). 

 

One of the basic things about a boat is most have split battery banks and charging systems, so when you run down the domestic batts, the engine starter batts will not have gone flat, so the the engine will still start and charge both. This is why your engine will start even when the lights are dim or off. 

 

Have you read Tony's "Battery Charging Primer"? This really is essential reading and you will understand so much if you take the time to read it. 

 

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The batteries are 'dead'.

 

Not necessarily. 

 

A fault discharged the domestic batts on one of my boats a few weeks back, down to 150mV.  Yes I typed that correctly. 

 

They stayed like that for a week before I returned to the boat and found the fault. They have since recharged and are performing much as they always used to before their week of utter and total discharge, so the OP's batts may yet survive. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not necessarily. 

 

A fault discharged the domestic batts on one of my boats a few weeks back, down to 150mV.  Yes I typed that correctly. 

 

They stayed like that for a week before I returned to the boat and found the fault. They have since recharged and are performing much as they always used to before their week of utter and total discharge, so the OP's batts may yet survive. 

 

 

If the OP is aware of how to do it, and what it means, the Sterling charger does an Equalisation charge (needs programming) which may help blast the batteries into life.

 

How to do It is in the manual.

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Have you read Tony's "Battery Charging Primer"? This really is essential reading and you will understand so much if you take the time to read it. 

 

For clarity not me. This Tony goes by the name Wotever on the forum

 

Battery Charging primer

 

By the way please do not feel badly about yourself in all this. Your problems are just the latest in a long line of similar ones when people with little technical or boating experience buy their first boat. Hang about and you will see another similar question within a week or so. The fault lies with the vendor and the broker not you.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

For clarity not me. This Tony goes by the name Wotever on the forum

 

Battery Charging primer

 

Apologies I didn't mean to create confusion. Two Tony's in this thread!

 

WotEver's battery primer was recommended earlier in the thread but I don't think the OP has really taken on board how focussed and effective it is in helping people understand battery charging problems. 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Apologies I didn't mean to create confusion. Two Tony's in this thread!

 

WotEver's battery primer was recommended earlier in the thread but I don't think the OP has really taken on board how focussed and effective it is in helping people understand battery charging problems. 

 

 

No confusion Mike. I just don't want to be mistakenly credited with Tony's work. Especially as we so often give such similar advice.

[cutandpolished61]

Many thanks to you all for your help. What a community! I fear I will have to pick your brains very often over the next few month. Will check tomorrow evening the details from the battery charger and keep you updated.

 

In the meantime I have another question. It makes now sense why the vessel has a 5kw perkins fitted in the engine bay. Previous owner used it to charge the batteries via the ultra charger. But the perkins is far too noisy. Therefore I purchased a silent portable generator. If I connect the generator to the shoreline hook up do I have to select the shoreline option on the rotary switch or the generator option?

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Many thanks to you all for your help. What a community! I fear I will have to pick your brains very often over the next few month. Will check tomorrow evening the details from the battery charger and keep you updated.

 

In the meantime I have another question. It makes now sense why the vessel has a 5kw perkins fitted in the engine bay. Previous owner used it to charge the batteries via the ultra charger. But the perkins is far too noisy. Therefore I purchased a silent portable generator. If I connect the generator to the shoreline hook up do I have to select the shoreline option on the rotary switch or the generator option?

Shore-Line.

 

Please ensure that you take the generator OFF the boat and run it on the tow-path downwind of the boat.

People have been killed by fumes from generators blowing back into the cabin.

 

Only refuel the generator on the tow-path to avoid any fumes/vapours dropping down into the boat / engine hole.

 

Your 'big genny' would hopefully be correctly 'plumbed-in' with regards to the exhaust.

 

What size is the battery charger ? (amps)

What size / make or model is your portable generator (CONTINUOUS watts)

Do you know that the generator is big enough to power the battery charger ?

Edited July 15, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

18 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Many thanks to you all for your help. What a community! I fear I will have to pick your brains very often over the next few month. Will check tomorrow evening the details from the battery charger and keep you updated.

 

In the meantime I have another question. It makes now sense why the vessel has a 5kw perkins fitted in the engine bay. Previous owner used it to charge the batteries via the ultra charger. But the perkins is far too noisy. Therefore I purchased a silent portable generator. If I connect the generator to the shoreline hook up do I have to select the shoreline option on the rotary switch or the generator option?

 

First of all for clarity do you mean you have a Perkins propulsion engine or a separate diesel generator powered by a Perkins engine? If the latter it sounds as if this may have been an all electric boat or designed for long periods off grid with heavy electrical demands. I doubt its the former because 5kW is only a few HP.

 

I trust this silent generator is not a petrol unit or if it is you fully understand the Boat Safety Scheme demands for storing the generator and any spare fuel. Remember an "engineer" killed his wife and child by using a modified "silent" generator on his boat in the Lake District not so long ago. Only run petrol generators OFF the boat and for security chained to something.

 

If you plug your portable generator into the normal shoreline socket and set the switch to generator I doubt anything will work because that would in effect isolate the shoreline socket from the boat. Rember you can not simply connect two sources of AC power together unless they are specifically designed to allow it like some of the better quality inverters. If you do magic smoke will soon appear from somewhere. The switch (that may have a third inverter position) is only there to prevent more than one AC source being connected at any time.

[Richard10002]

12 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Anyone picked up on alternator at 32 v?

and two paralleled  24 v batteries. Are you sure you arnt 48 volts charging.

I think he may have meant 32A ???

[Richard10002]

46 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Many thanks to you all for your help. What a community! I fear I will have to pick your brains very often over the next few month. Will check tomorrow evening the details from the battery charger and keep you updated.

 

In the meantime I have another question. It makes now sense why the vessel has a 5kw perkins fitted in the engine bay. Previous owner used it to charge the batteries via the ultra charger. But the perkins is far too noisy. Therefore I purchased a silent portable generator. If I connect the generator to the shoreline hook up do I have to select the shoreline option on the rotary switch or the generator option?

Are you still in the marina with a shoreline electrical connection?

 

If so, you need to get the Sterling Pro Charge Ultra turned on and charging your 12V leisure batteries. I haven't seen any suggestion that you have tried this - you seem to think you need to use one of your generators, and I'm not sure why?

 

Have you tried this? If it didn't work, what are the symptoms? No lights on the Ultra? or what?

[cutandpolished61]

The vessel is still in the marina and I will charge the batteries tomorrow evening with the Sterling Pro Charge Ultra.

But I'm leaving on Wednesday and I won't be connected to shoreline for sometime to come.

Therefore my generator query. The Perkins generator hasn't run for years I reckon, far too noisy apparently. My portable petrol generator is secured to the boat, will run from the towpath if needed. No petrol storage. If it runs out of fuel so be it. I thought if I connect the generator to the shoreline socket and set the rotary switch to  shoreline power supply then the generator power would effectively replace shoreline power. Is this correct?

 

[BruceinSanity]

9 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

I thought if I connect the generator to the shoreline socket and set the rotary switch to  shoreline power supply then the generator power would effectively replace shoreline power. Is this correct?

 

It should be, worth trying it out before you leave the marina. What output does the new genny have? That may affect whether you can use 230v appliances in the boat whilst the charger is guzzling all the juice.

[Richard10002]

25 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

The vessel is still in the marina and I will charge the batteries tomorrow evening with the Sterling Pro Charge Ultra.

But I'm leaving on Wednesday and I won't be connected to shoreline for sometime to come.

Therefore my generator query. The Perkins generator hasn't run for years I reckon, far too noisy apparently. My portable petrol generator is secured to the boat, will run from the towpath if needed. No petrol storage. If it runs out of fuel so be it. I thought if I connect the generator to the shoreline socket and set the rotary switch to  shoreline power supply then the generator power would effectively replace shoreline power. Is this correct?

 

What Bruce said - try the silent portable generator today to make sure it works. Is there space in your gas locker for a 5L can of petrol? (somebody might say you shouldnt do this, but I cant see why?).

 

A couple of things to be sure of:

 

What make and model is your generator - How many watts does it say it will provide, continuously?

Which model of Sterling pro Charge Ultra is it? I have the 60A model. I think they do them 30A, 40A, 50A. Mine has it printed on the top left of the case "12v-60A"

 

If your batteries are flat, (or even just need charging), and you have no alternative, use the Perkins inboard genny, and ignore the noise !!! You use the word "apparently".... Have you tried it? Who told you it is too noisy?

Edited July 15, 2019 by Richard10002

[cutandpolished61]

I will check tomorrow evening the model and let you know. The previous owner left me with a 1000 plus page manual / invoices / instructions . In the manual he wrote that the perkins generator is too noisy and therefore hasn't been used.

 

[Richard10002]

1 minute ago, cutandpolished61 said:

I will check tomorrow evening the model and let you know. The previous owner left me with a 1000 plus page manual / invoices / instructions . In the manual he wrote that the perkins generator is too noisy and therefore hasn't been used.

 

 Both Mike The Boilerman and I have Sterling Pro Charge Ultras, so we know how they work, (mostly), and should be able to help with getting it going - Having said that, it should be as simple as connect the power and off it goes. There is no switch on the unit but mine has a switch between shore power and the unit, as well as an RCD thing in the consumer unit, so there could be a couple of simple things stopping the power getting to it.

 

Not immediately important, but what model of Perkins inboard generator is it? If I were you I'd get it started up and see how noisy it really is, and whether it starts. He might have had very sensitive ears, or a very sensitive other half  Check oil level and stuff before firing it up.

[MtB]

13 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

Both Mike The Boilerman and I have Sterling Pro Charge Ultras, so we know how they work,

 

Broadly speaking the Pro Charge Ultra is a battery charger and the output ought to be permanently wired into the domestic battery bank. (Or probably is but given your boat, who knows!!) It needs a 240Vac mains supply which you can get from your shoreline or from your portable genny. 

 

Get it connected to whatever 240Vac power supply you like and it should start charging your battery bank. Lights on the front tell you what it is doing, plus read the manual. 

 

 

 

[cutandpolished61]

Thanks Mike, will check this evening when i'm back on board. Since this discussion started i'm working on memory as I left on Sunday and all the manuals are on the boat. But I checked the sterling website and i'm almost certain it's the Pro Charge Ultra. I remember the charger came always on when the engine was running but it remained off when hooked up to 240v. Does it need to be switched on when hooked up?

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Thanks Mike, will check this evening when i'm back on board. Since this discussion started i'm working on memory as I left on Sunday and all the manuals are on the boat. But I checked the sterling website and i'm almost certain it's the Pro Charge Ultra. I remember the charger came always on when the engine was running but it remained off when hooked up to 240v. Does it need to be switched on when hooked up?

That sounds horribly like a Sterling A to B device that is not a battery charger as such but a supposed method of enhancing the alternator output. It might even be combining both alternator outputs.

 

Remember that I have not seen the thing but if I am right,and I may well not be, then the shoreline has nothing to do with it. If it is an actual battery charger then simply running the engine should not cause it to light up unless its being fed from an inverter that is coupled to flat batteries so the alternator output provides the power for the inverter but I do not think this is very likely. If it is a battery charger then its switch could be anywhere if a remote one has been fitted.

 

I suggest that you google Sterling A to B and see if it looks like what you have. Often one case design is used across a range of products.

 

When yu get back on board you nee to look at lables.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[cutandpolished61]

Thanks Tony, i'll check this evening. It's all guess work at this point.

[waterdog]

24 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Thanks Tony, i'll check this evening. It's all guess work at this point.

is this your boat ?

 

https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Louisiana-II-Brochure-2.pdf

 

https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/narrow-boats-cruiser-stern/604120

 

links contain some info (not a lot) on the electrical system in the sales particulars.

[Richard10002]

11 hours ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Thanks Tony, i'll check this evening. It's all guess work at this point.

Take some photos and post them here. If you think it's guesswork, and you own the boat.......