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Well. it was all guesswork and BS, subsequently wasting a lot of our precious time. I do honestly apologize for that. But then again, I learned so much just in the last 2 days because of all your replies. Not a Pro Ultra Charger at all on my boat. What is fitted is a Pro Reg D and a Pro Reg BW charging  the 12v bank and starter battery when the engine is running. Not sure yet how the batteries will respond to the poor handling. Crap handover that was. I was certain the inverter charger would charge all the 12v batteries. As I assumed (too late)  the inverter charger is charging just the 24v batteries supporting the bow thruster, the fridge and all the 240v sockets I have on the boat.

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Well. it was all guesswork and BS, subsequently wasting a lot of our precious time. I do honestly apologize for that. But then again, I learned so much just in the last 2 days because of all your replies. Not a Pro Ultra Charger at all on my boat. What is fitted is a Pro Reg D and a Pro Reg BW charging  the 12v bank and starter battery when the engine is running. Not sure yet how the batteries will respond to the poor handling. Crap handover that was. I was certain the inverter charger would charge all the 12v batteries. As I assumed (too late)  the inverter charger is charging just the 24v batteries supporting the bow thruster, the fridge and all the 240v sockets I have on the boat.

 

This all makes far more sense now.

 

Both items you mention are advanced alternator controllers that are supposed to enhance the charge, one on each alternator. The alternators needed a slight modification to fit them but it is of little consequence apart from when you need to fit a new alternator. One an the domestic alternator is common but the engine battery (start battery) alternator really does not need one because the engine battery will be all but fully charged well within an hour of starting.

 

The fact you have one for both alternators makes me wonder if the engine battery alternator is charging more then the engine battery but if it is then some form of charge splitting or combining is required. Don't worry about this at present but if you can get your hands on a multimeter set to DC volts carry out the voltage checks I asked for ages ago. As long as the engine running voltages are about one volt or more higher than the engine off & batteries rested voltages all should be fine so you are ready to start your trip. If you find your domestic batteries get very discharged over night to the point of lamps dimming after a day's running or if they start to get hot or smell they have probably had it

 

Have a good trip.

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17 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The fact you have one for both alternators makes me wonder if the engine battery alternator is charging more then the engine battery

Not sure if the OP's understanding of the battery banks / alternators is valid, but, he thinks there is :

 

1) A 24v alternator charging a 'domestic bank' to power the bow thruster and fridge (via the inverter)

2) A 12v alternator to charge the 'domestic bank' for every thing else.

3) 'one of them' charging the starter battery.

 

The question is, "is the engine starter 24v or 12v" which will determine which alternator charges the starter battery.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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We had a similar experience when buying our boat, a very reputable broker showed us an A-B-Both switch and explained that was used for charging the batteries but after destroying the domestic batteries an electrician pointed out the switch was no longer connected.

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9 hours ago, Rob-M said:

We had a similar experience when buying our boat, a very reputable broker showed us an A-B-Both switch and explained that was used for charging the batteries but after destroying the domestic batteries an electrician pointed out the switch was no longer connected.

 

When I bought my boat (from GHBS), I insisted that it was a condition of sale that they arranged a handover with the previous owner. That way you guarantee that you are shown how things work properly by someone who ought to know, rather than someone from the brokerage trying to remeber what the owner told him. 

 

The only thing it didn't work for was the diesel drip feed stove, because the previous owner admitted that when he tried to light it with meths (god knows how much he must have uaed) it singed all the hairs on his arm, so he never used it again. ?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi All,we made it and arrived this afternoon at piggery bridge in
perivale. But we still have issues with the electrics on the boot. The 12v
charger is making noise like a Geiger counter.  Showing permanent low
voltage alert. The 24v charger is also making trouble. Early in the morning
the panel is indicating - 50amp used. And after running the engine during the
trip for 11-12 hours a day the reading on the panel is still - 35amp. This
afternoon I connected the generator, switched the inverter charger on but
nothing happened. Just the appliances connected worked but no battery charge I believe .

During the trip I noticed several times that the 12v
gauge went up very quickly from 12v to 18v. In the same time the engine rpm
went down by 100 rpm. Start giving me a headache the electrics on my boot

 

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Hi Tony,

I called Sterling and the problem was eventually resolved. The power panel was giving wrong figures. After i switched off / on, the panel reset itself and the battery showed fully charged. Issue with the 12v charger regulator is still ongoing. The ticking noise coming from the unit is a concern. Sterling advised the disconnect the unit from power and connect again.  I will do this today and see how it goes. Another issue i'm having is in relation to the 12v system on my boat and I would like to ask for your advise. All the cabin lights are working but none of the sockets. All fuses intact. I'm unable to figure out the cause.

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45 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Hi Tony,

I called Sterling and the problem was eventually resolved. The power panel was giving wrong figures. After i switched off / on, the panel reset itself and the battery showed fully charged. Issue with the 12v charger regulator is still ongoing. The ticking noise coming from the unit is a concern. Sterling advised the disconnect the unit from power and connect again.  I will do this today and see how it goes. Another issue i'm having is in relation to the 12v system on my boat and I would like to ask for your advise. All the cabin lights are working but none of the sockets. All fuses intact. I'm unable to figure out the cause.

Unfortunately you boats seems to be a very much one off so things common on other boats may well not apply.

 

As you say this is a 12V problem I must assume that you are talking about 12V outlets that are likely to be  car cigarette lighter type sockets, DIN sockets, special 12 V sockets that take a two pin plug with blades set at an angle to each other or maybe mains 5 amp 3 pin sockets or a big USB socket. If you mean square pin 13 amp sockets then they are almost certainly 250 volt AC ones so will only work when a shore line is connected or the inverter is running (switching to select source may also be involved). A photo may help identify what you have.

 

Assuming they are 12V sockets then as long as you have well charged batteries the most likely cause would be a tripped circuit breaker or a blown fuse.  It is always possible there is a 12V isolator for that circuit that you have not found yet although its unlikely. Once that is ruled out and you have ensured there are no loose or broken connections on you fuse/distribution board, including the negatives, the it must be a broken wire or connection that has pulled apart but where I have no idea. Before you go looking for broken wires/disconnected  connections I would say that if your have a switch panel that contains   circuit breakers my fist test would be to ensure the circuit breaker is actually passing current when nominally switched on.

 

 

 

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On 15/07/2019 at 08:49, Alan de Enfield said:

If the OP is aware of how to do it, and what it means, the Sterling charger does an Equalisation charge (needs programming) which may help blast the batteries into life.

 

How to do It is in the manual.

 

Sorry I've only just read this. How do you get a Sterling charger to do an equalisation charge. I wasn't aware it was possible? It's not in my manual but my Sterling charger is one of the older Pro-digital models, about 15 years old so I suspect it doesn't have this feature.

Edited by blackrose
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24 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Sorry I've only just read this. How do you get a Sterling charger to do an equalisation charge. I wasn't aware it was possible? It's not in my manual but my Sterling charger is one of the older Pro-digital models, about 15 years old so I suspect it doesn't have this feature.

If it is not shown in your model manual, then your model probably cannot do it.

 

You can use a "bench power supply" and set the voltage and current at what you want and 'leave it to it', or,

Get a cheap unregulated 4 amp battery charger from Halfords (or similar), mine will just keep 'going' higher and higher once the battery is charged, so you do NEED TO CAFEULLY MANAGE AND MONITOR IT. 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Tony, I've got this Hella type sockets all over the boat. They are smaller then the car cigarette sockets. I wasn't aware that these sockets come in different sizes. Subsequently all my 12v appliances I have don't fit and adaptors are hard to come by. I'm wondering if I can simply replace the sockets?

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

You can use a "bench power supply" and set the voltage and current at what you want and 'leave it to it', or,

Get a cheap unregulated 4 amp battery charger from Halfords (or similar), mine will just keep 'going' higher and higher once the battery is charged, so you do NEED TO CAFEULLY MANAGE AND MONITOR IT. 

 

Is this the sort of thing? How does one know what to set it to and how long to leave it for? How often should you do an equalisation charge (open wet lead/acid batteries).

 

DC Power Supply Variable, 0-30V / 0-5A Eventek Adjustable Switching Regulated Power Supply Digital, with Alligator Leads and UK Power Cord https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06Y5JLJ6Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_luhpDb6JGCF6N

 

Edited by blackrose
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29 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Tony, I've got this Hella type sockets all over the boat. They are smaller then the car cigarette sockets. I wasn't aware that these sockets come in different sizes. Subsequently all my 12v appliances I have don't fit and adaptors are hard to come by. I'm wondering if I can simply replace the sockets?

The Hella socket is far superior to the cigarette lighter socket., as there is a positive grip on the centre pin. Plugs available on eBay , for example

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HELLA-CONTINENTAL-TYPE-12V-12-VOLT-24V-24-VOLT-DIN-DC-POWER-PLUG/201964588292?hash=item2f06070d04:g:iQMAAOSwz71ZT4Ri

 

or adaptor to cigarette lighter

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HELLA-PLUG-TO-STANDARD-CIGAR-CIGARETTE-LIGHTER-SOCKET-ADAPTOR-12V-24V-8A-MAX/202397995180?hash=item2f1fdc50ac:g:veUAAOSw8C9Z4kpi

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27 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Is this the sort of thing? How does one know what to set it to and how long to leave it for? How often should you do an equalisation charge (open wet lead/acid batteries).

 

DC Power Supply Variable, 0-30V / 0-5A Eventek Adjustable Switching Regulated Power Supply Digital, with Alligator Leads and UK Power Cord https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06Y5JLJ6Z/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_luhpDb6JGCF6N

 

Yes - 

 

How often 'the glib answer' is when needed, when you capacity noticeably drops.

I use a tad over 15 volts - try and minimise the acid boiling off.

An hour is probably enough wouldn't go much past 2 hours without checking the SG and temperatures.

 

 

Edit to add :

 

Know how to apply an equalize charge and not damage the battery.

Stationary batteries are almost exclusively lead acid and some maintenance is required, one of which is equalizing charge. Applying a periodic equalizing charge brings all cells to similar levels by increasing the voltage to 2.50V/cell, or 10 percent higher than the recommended charge voltage. 

An equalizing charge is nothing more than a deliberate overcharge to remove sulfate crystals that build up on the plates over time. Left unchecked, sulfation can reduce the overall capacity of the battery and render the battery unserviceable in extreme cases. An equalizing charge also reverses acid stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top.

Experts recommend equalizing services once a month to once or twice a year. A better method is to apply a fully saturated charge and then compare the specific gravity readings (SG) on the individual cells of a flooded lead acid battery with a hydrometer. Only apply equalization if the SG difference between the cells is 0.030.

 

During equalizing charge, check the changes in the SG reading every hour and disconnect the charge when the gravity no longer rises. This is the time when no further improvement is possible and a continued charge would have a negative effect on the battery.

The battery must be kept cool and under close observation for unusual heat rise and excessive venting. Some venting is normal and the hydrogen emitted is highly flammable. The battery room must have good ventilation as the hydrogen gas becomes explosive at a concentration of 4 percent.

 

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/equalizing_charge

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Thanks, what amps setting do you use? Is 0-5amps range sufficient? There are some more expensive bench power supply models which go up to 10amps.

 

Edit: I assume I'd switch off my charger while doing the equalisation charge, but do I need to pull the fuses on the 12v cables from the charger and to the inverter to prevent high voltages damaging them?

Edited by blackrose
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Just now, blackrose said:

Thanks, what amps setting do you use?

I have a 1300Ah battery bank and use 4 to 5 amps.

 

Just to make the batteries 'fizz' but not 'boil'.

 

Just trial and error - start low and work up until the SG starts to level out and doesn't increase any further.

 

Just a 'cheapish' Hydrometer, not overly accurate but will show if there are any changes and consistent measurement between cells.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have a 1300Ah battery bank and use 4 to 5 amps.

 

Just to make the batteries 'fizz' but not 'boil'.

 

Just trial and error - start low and work up until the SG starts to level out and doesn't increase any further.

 

Just a 'cheapish' Hydrometer, not overly accurate but will show if there are any changes and consistent measurement between cells.

Are you measuring SG at the same time with the caps off?

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46 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Tony, I've got this Hella type sockets all over the boat. They are smaller then the car cigarette sockets. I wasn't aware that these sockets come in different sizes. Subsequently all my 12v appliances I have don't fit and adaptors are hard to come by. I'm wondering if I can simply replace the sockets?

Yes you can, its your boat but it is vital you observed the polarity when you wire the new sockets. However, as Ian S said, your sockets are probably much better quality than the flimsy car cigarette lighter type.  I would probably change the sockets on my equipment where possible and if not use the adaptors Ian gave a link to.

 

 

9 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Thanks, what amps setting do you use?

Equalisation is done on voltage not amperage so if its a puny power supply the current at a round 15 volts may be too high for it so you may need to get the batteries more fully charged or do them one at a time rather than a whole bank at once. Probably as high as the power supply will go and then use the voltage to keep the current within the power supply's limits.

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15 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

Equalisation is done on voltage not amperage so if its a puny power supply the current at a round 15 volts may be too high for it so you may need to get the batteries more fully charged or do them one at a time rather than a whole bank at once. Probably as high as the power supply will go and then use the voltage to keep the current within the power supply's limits.

 Thanks, I'm on shore power so would only do the equalisation charge at the mooring with the batteries fully charged. I only asked the question about the amps setting as the bench power supply has a variable setting between 0 - 5amps and you have to set it to something.

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18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Equalisation is done on voltage not amperage so if its a puny power supply the current at a round 15 volts may be too high for it so you may need to get the batteries more fully charged or do them one at a time rather than a whole bank at once. Probably as high as the power supply will go and then use the voltage to keep the current within the power supply's limits.

The advantage of the bench power supply is that you can have any voltage / current combination so I could have 30 volts at 3 amps, at 15 volts at 3 amps

 

My batteries are normally 99% (ish) charged by the Shoreline and charger + Solar.

So the 3.5 amp supply at 15 volts seems to do the job

 

CAM00284.jpg.a82a82dfb3b49ea42d72d869e50c7c6d.jpg

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Hi Tony, 12v issue all sorted. It was the fuse. Got the adapters for the Hella sockets and have to use the inverter now much less.

One more problem turner up with my new 2500W generator. It's charging well at about 25amp per hour but the rev is going up and down. I thought it can't be the fuel filter on a brand new machine. Unable to find any other troubleshooting advise online.

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