Battery charging problem

[cutandpolished61]

Good morning all, woke up this morning on my boat and the batteries are almost flat. Boat is connected to 240v landline. Inverter shows fast charging. Can someone please advise.

 

Many thanks

Peter

[Nut]

I imagine that the experts on the forum will want to know type of batteries age of batteries how many batteries type of invertor  etc etc etc

then they will have something to go on

just saying

[Tony Brooks]

how hot are the batteries and how do they smell?

 

With such little to go on the probability is that one or more have developed a massive internal short circuit.

 

If the charger was not on "fast charge" I would have suggested dirty or loose battery terminals.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Good morning all, woke up this morning on my boat and the batteries are almost flat. Boat is connected to 240v landline. Inverter shows fast charging. Can someone please advise.

 

Many thanks

Peter

 

I’m puzzled how you know the batts are flat with a fast charger on the terminals. I’d say most likely your fast charger has stopped working and the indicator lights are lying, or it has come disconnected. 

 

 

Or your shore power has failed and the inverter is feeding the charger from battery power, which never works out well.

 

 

Help us out. Give some proper detail about what you have.  Make and model of inverter charger, what monitoring equipment, what batts, what the terminal voltage is for starters. 

[cutandpolished61]

the charger is a sterling pro. what baffles me is that the inverter is charging my 24v batteries but not the 12v bank. so the only thing running on my boat is the fridge and the bow thruster. 

[Alan de Enfield]

37 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

the charger is a sterling pro. what baffles me is that the inverter is charging my 24v batteries but not the 12v bank. so the only thing running on my boat is the fridge and the bow thruster. 

 

Can we just clear up one item ?

 

The inverter does NOT charge batteries, its use actually flattens batteries.

 

A battery charger charges batteries.

 

You can have a 'combi' which is both devices in one box, but their independent functions remain

 

Inverter takes 12v (or 24v) and by converting it to main (230vAC) uses (flattens) the batteries.

The battery charger (when connected via a shore-line) charges the batteries,

OR, when running the engine the alternator charges the batteries.

 

What make & model of inverter do you have ?

What make and model of battery charger do you have ?

How do you charge your batteries ? (Alternator or battery charger via shore-line)

 

Have you got a voltmeter ?

 

Are you actually getting power from your land line ? (has it 'tripped')

Is your battery charge switched on ?

Is there any voltage coming out of the battery charger ?

Try running your engine for a few (maybe 6 hours) and see if you get any charge back into the batteries

Try turning the inverter off.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

38 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

the charger is a sterling pro. what baffles me is that the inverter is charging my 24v batteries but not the 12v bank. so the only thing running on my boat is the fridge and the bow thruster. 

 

You do realise that a 24 volt combi-unit is unlikely to have a 12V charger output.

 

You might have a 124 to 12V step down device to charge the 12V battery but that is unlikely to be sufficient to keep the domestic bank charged. An idiot may also have wired a 12V battery charger to the inverter mains output but that is a recipe for flat batteries.

 

All bets are now off, especially what i said in my post above. WE now need much more information but if you are a new boater you may not understand exactly what is needed.

 

For starters:-

Which bank is flat.

Does the inverter-charger really have a 12V and a 24 volt output

Voltage across the 24 volt bank a hour or so after stopping charging it.

Ditto the engine battery

Both voltage above but this time with the charger turned on.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Tony Brooks

[cutandpolished61]

You are correct, I'm a new boater and have no clue about the boat electrics. Catastrophic handover from broker just a week ago with hardly any info given.. Still in the marina hooked up to shore line. vessel is equipped with a sterling pro combi q. 4 new enforcer 110 AGM leisure batteries. the 24v batteries are charged but the 12v bank is going flat after some time. Had the engine running for an hour and noticed the alternator is charging at 32v. Not sure if this is good or not. The inverter is now switched on indicating a fast charge. I have no idea if the inverter charges have a 12v and 24v output. just read in the boat manual that the 4 new batteries are connected as 2x24v. I think these batteries running just the bow thruster and the fridge and it looks like the inverter charger is charging nothing else. Looks like the 2 leisure batteries in the engine compartment are not getting charged by the inverter charger but what do I know. I almost don't dare to ask but will a charge actually take place when the isolator is engaged?

 

 

 

[Nut]

hi again

have you any experienced neighbours who might be able to help?

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

I almost don't dare to ask but will a charge actually take place when the isolator is engaged?

What isolator ?

 

That could be the problem.

 

Unfortunately not knowing about electrics makes it very difficult for you to actually give any meaningful information (as you don't know what is meaningful)

 

Have you got a voltmeter and ammeter ?

One would assume (always dangerous) that there is some way of charging the 12v system - a member here recently had similar problems and his 24v to 12v step down failed and boiled his batteries.

 

I would (with all respect) suggest that you need to engage someone who actually is conversant with 12 v and 24v DC systems on a boat. NOT just a normal electrician.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would (with all respect) suggest that you need to engage someone who actually is conversant with 12 v and 24v DC systems on a boat. NOT just a normal electrician.

 

Seconded. 

 

The electrical installation on this boat sounds a mess to me, and even simple boat electrics can be complex to diagnose on a forum when the owner is not reasonably competent with electrical DC theory.

 

If you only just bought the boat, did you get a survey? Your surveyor may be able to explain to you what is going on. Otherwise find someone who can recommend a 12v electrician familiar with boats. There are a few about. Whereabouts are you? Someone on here may be able to recommend someone near you.

 

 

[WotEver]

32 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

You are correct, I'm a new boater and have no clue about the boat electrics. Catastrophic handover from broker just a week ago with hardly any info given.

Okay, in that case...

13 minutes ago, Nut said:

have you any experienced neighbours who might be able to help?

Or...

12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I would (with all respect) suggest that you need to engage someone who actually is conversant with 12 v and 24v DC systems on a boat. NOT just a normal electrician.

 

It’s extremely difficult if not impossible to remotely diagnose electrical problems without a fair amount of accurate information regarding the equipment fitted and how it is configured. A knowledgeable boater should be able to supply that info pretty quickly. 

[WotEver]

 

Even this part of your post appears contradictory...

38 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

the 24v batteries are charged but the 12v bank is going flat after some time

 

39 minutes ago, cutandpolished61 said:

just read in the boat manual that the 4 new batteries are connected as 2x24v.

 

So that would suggest that you have a 24V boat. So where is this ‘12V bank’?

[MtB]

I was thinking this too. 

 

I suspect the OP is making a LOT of assumptions in his posts, e.g. that there is anything 12v in the first place. The facts seem to be that only the fridge and the bow thruster are working, and everything else has stopped. I suspect the fridge might be 240v running from the inverter, the bow thruster has its own battery bank at the bow, and the DC domestic service as a whole had failed, or is simply turned OFF at a master switch.

 

 

[WotEver]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

or is simply turned OFF at a master switch.

Indeed. Or the master switch is faulty. 

[cutandpolished61]

Thanks to you all for trying to help me. I'm just unable to provide you with the necessary information. Steep learning curve ahead of me.

Even more baffled now as the inverter charger changed from fast charge to float charge and having no idea what it is actually charging.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Thanks to you all for trying to help me. I'm just unable to provide you with the necessary information. Steep learning curve ahead of me.

Even more baffled now as the inverter charger changed from fast charge to float charge and having no idea what it is actually charging.

 

First thing to do in order to start learning about your boat electrics is buy yourself a cheap digital multi-meter. Learn the difference between voltage and current (do some googling), and start measuring some voltages around the boat. Try this for starters. Exact voltages (to two decimal places) measured at various places are very important (critically important) when diagnosing DC installation faults. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LCD-Digital-Multimeter-Voltmeter-Ammeter-AC-DC-OHM-Current-Circuit-Tester-Buzzer/223468448427?

 

And if you are feeling loaded, a DC clamp meter for measuring current like this is just as useful, but in a different way.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNI-T-UT210E-True-RMS-AC-DC-Current-LCD-Diaplay-Digital-Mini-Clamp-Meter-E6B7/352505362968?hash=item5212f4fa18:g:RXQAAOSwGYhb3DRp

 

[Tony Brooks]

Yes, like the four voltage readings I suggested 5 hours ago.

 

Comparing the firsts et with the second set would show what was being charged and what was not. However I am not even sure you only have two battery banks, your replys suggest maybe three and if so we then need three pairs of voltage readings one for each bank.

 

From what you say it sounds to me as if you have an engine start bank, a bank for bow thruster and fridge bank and another for the rest of the domestic electrics. If I am correct this is not a very bright way of doing it but before going into why and what may be better we need to sort out what is charging what.

 

We also need to know how many alternators you have and if I am right about three banks what is splitting the alternator's charge.

 

If there are no experienced members in London who are willing to look at it with you could you move it to say West Drayton or Uxbridge close to car parking and maybe I could pop over.

[Alan de Enfield]

44 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If there are no experienced members in London who are willing to look at it with you could you move it to say West Drayton or Uxbridge close to car parking and maybe I could pop over.

Has the OP said he is in London ?

I cannot see it anywhere in this thread.

 

I tend to feel that you may be correct as it is (more often than not) new London boaters that seem to have these problems.

But he could be …………………….??

Edited July 14, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Has the OP said he is in London ?

I cannot see it anywhere in this thread.

I just clicked his profile and it says the boat is located in London. 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

I just clicked his profile and it says the boat is located in London. 

That's OK then !!!

Wonder why folks don't put in their "Location" ? but do on their 'profile'.

3 hours ago, cutandpolished61 said:

Thanks to you all for trying to help me. I'm just unable to provide you with the necessary information. Steep learning curve ahead of me.

Even more baffled now as the inverter charger changed from fast charge to float charge and having no idea what it is actually charging.

Take a few days off work and take Tony up on his very kind offer.

Before 'retiring' Tony used to run courses on boat maintenance.

 

You couldn't get anyone more knowledgeable at any price.

 

50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If there are no experienced members in London who are willing to look at it with you could you move it to say West Drayton or Uxbridge close to car parking and maybe I could pop over.

 

[Tumshie]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Wonder why folks don't put in their "Location" ? but do on their 'profile'.

I think it has something to do with which location field you fill in, as in whether it your own location or your boats location. But I'm not really sure. 

[Eeyore]

@cutandpolished61  are you still at Great Haywood marina?

Edited July 14, 2019 by Eeyore

[MtB]

London however is such a big place the op might as well put ‘england’. 

 

It takes as long to drive from say heathrow to E14 as it takes to drive from heathrow to Stoke on Trent. 

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

@cutandpolished61  are you still at Great Haywood marina?

Hmmm - that's not London (or even very close to it)