Charging batteries by generator and generator recommendations

[dccruiser]

1 hour ago, B2019 said:

I know what you mean. It's probably best for me to go to an engineer to fit a generator storage box. Takes away some liability on my part if anything happens. 

No good having someone else liable if your not around to chase them up!!!

 

Rick

[WotEver]

11 hours ago, B2019 said:

I know what you mean. It's probably best for me to go to an engineer to fit a generator storage box. Takes away some liability on my part if anything happens. 

Not really relevant. If the storage doesn’t meet at least the same requirements as those for a gas locker then you won’t get a BSS. Unless you intend to remove the generator every 4 years because you know it’s dangerous to both you and those around you and simply don’t care. 

[MtB]

11 hours ago, B2019 said:

I know what you mean. It's probably best for me to go to an engineer to fit a generator storage box. Takes away some liability on my part if anything happens. 

 

I are still not clear on whether you mean a box to simply store the genny in, or a box in which to run it. 

 

Running it in a box of any description is asking for trouble and is how that gas bod killed his family. Just storing in a box is easy as you just design your box as if it was for storing a gas cylinder.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I are still not clear on whether you mean a box to simply store the genny in, or a box in which to run it. 

 

Running it in a box of any description is asking for trouble and is how that gas bod killed his family. Just storing in a box is easy as you just design your box as if it was for storing a gas cylinder.

 

 

True and would likely kill the genny too. They need all the air that they can get.
As you say, storing a petrol genny aboard is quite easy from a Boat Safety perspective. Running one aboard is a different kettle of fish. We run ours off the boat.

[Johny London]

If the o/p can stretch to it - could be worth investing in a built in diesel genny such as s Fischer Panda - they come up very frequently on ebay 1-2k, and some come with all the bits and pieces you need, pipes etc. More initial outlay and hassle, but ultimately very convenient.

[B2019]

Any thoughts? 

 

Looking to run a 40/50amp charger...

 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-EU10i-Inverter-Generator-/333336404914?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, B2019 said:

Any thoughts? 

 

Looking to run a 40/50amp charger...

 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-EU10i-Inverter-Generator-/333336404914?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

That generator is 900 watts continuous rating.

 

It will depend on what charger you have as some makes are only 60% efficient (Power factor of 0.6), Some are as high as 90% and some with 'expensive electronics' can work on a Pf of 1

 

If you have a 'good' charger it should run a 40a charger OK

If you have a 'bad' charger it won't run a 40 a charger.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, B2019 said:

Any thoughts? 

 

Looking to run a 40/50amp charger...

 

 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-EU10i-Inverter-Generator-/333336404914?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

I am about to buy a brand new one, hoping that it will run my Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A charger. However, if it doesn’t, the charger has the option to reduce its power to 45A, or 30A, or 15A. So, if the genny won’t run it at 60A, I have the flexibility to reduce the Amps I charge at.

 

I’ve been using a Honda EU20i for some years, but like the idea of a smaller unit, just a bit over half the weight.

[B2019]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That generator is 900 watts continuous rating.

 

It will depend on what charger you have as some makes are only 60% efficient (Power factor of 0.6), Some are as high as 90% and some with 'expensive electronics' can work on a Pf of 1

 

If you have a 'good' charger it should run a 40a charger OK

If you have a 'bad' charger it won't run a 40 a charger.

Going to get a cheap charger off eBay for now. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Leisure-Battery-Charger-40-Amp-240v-12v-40A-Boat-4WD-Caravan-Motorcycle/201645728867

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, B2019 said:

Going to get a cheap charger off eBay for now. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Leisure-Battery-Charger-40-Amp-240v-12v-40A-Boat-4WD-Caravan-Motorcycle/201645728867

No details in the spec so Alan’s post applies: It might, or it might not.
 

I’d suggest that on the balance of probabilities it won’t. 
 

But it might...

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, B2019 said:

Going to get a cheap charger off eBay for now. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Leisure-Battery-Charger-40-Amp-240v-12v-40A-Boat-4WD-Caravan-Motorcycle/201645728867

If its not too late -DON'T BUY IT.

 

1) It is a Chinese 'don't know the quality' charger.

2) For 'not much more' you can get a decent 'smart' (multi step) charger.

 

For £120 you can get a Victron (Quality) 30A charger.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[B2019]

55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If its not too late -DON'T BUY IT.

 

1) It is a Chinese 'don't know the quality' charger.

2) For 'not much more' you can get a decent 'smart' (multi step) charger.

 

For £120 you can get a Victron (Quality) 30A charger.

No I haven't bought anything yet. Still trying to work it all out. This is my daily power required. Going to be continuous cruiser. No fridge and the oven I just ordered will require no power at all ( Statesman Legacy 50- X2 battery AA battery ignition).  I've got x3 110ah batteries. Got a budget of around £350 for generator and £200 for charger. 

[ditchcrawler]

I wouldn't worry about being a smart charger if it is ONLY EVER going to run off the genny because you will stop the geny before the smart bit has any real effect. If there is any chance going on shore supply its a different ball game  and you need one that will drop through the stages.

6 minutes ago, B2019 said:

No I haven't bought anything yet. Still trying to work it all out. This is my daily power required. Going to be continuous cruiser. No fridge and the oven I just ordered will require no power at all ( Statesman Legacy 50- X2 battery AA battery ignition).  I've got x3 110ah batteries. Got a budget of around £350 for generator and £200 for charger. 

I dont think you have your charging requirements right if you think you need to generate 285 Ah a day, I have an inverter and mains fridge, coffee maker, electric kettle and come in at about 70 to 80 Ah per day

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, B2019 said:

Got a budget of around £350 for generator and £200 for charger

30A will be sufficient.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SMART-IP22-Bluetooth-Battery-Charger-12v-30A/283628043664?epid=27021866314&hash=item42098c7d90:g:3MQAAOSw9AtdkGeh

 

Kipor generator - more for your money and will power bigger tools, immersion heater etc etc.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274025745713?hash=item3fcd350d31:g:rjgAAOSw~X1djHP~

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274022828643?hash=item3fcd088a63:g:4ksAAOSwgH1dgIIR

 

 

[Dr Bob]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

30A will be sufficient.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SMART-IP22-Bluetooth-Battery-Charger-12v-30A/283628043664?epid=27021866314&hash=item42098c7d90:g:3MQAAOSw9AtdkGeh

 

Kipor generator - more for your money and will power bigger tools, immersion heater etc etc.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274025745713?hash=item3fcd350d31:g:rjgAAOSw~X1djHP~

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274022828643?hash=item3fcd088a63:g:4ksAAOSwgH1dgIIR

 

 

We have a Victron IP22.  Very impressed.

[B2019]

44 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

30A will be sufficient.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VICTRON-BLUE-SMART-IP22-Bluetooth-Battery-Charger-12v-30A/283628043664?epid=27021866314&hash=item42098c7d90:g:3MQAAOSw9AtdkGeh

 

Kipor generator - more for your money and will power bigger tools, immersion heater etc etc.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274025745713?hash=item3fcd350d31:g:rjgAAOSw~X1djHP~

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/kipor-ig-2000-Suitcase-Inverter-Generator/274022828643?hash=item3fcd088a63:g:4ksAAOSwgH1dgIIR

 

 

Ok cool. Thanks. That is really helpful. 

[magictime]

4 hours ago, B2019 said:

Ok cool. Thanks. That is really helpful. 

I've been umm-ing and aah-ing about buying a Kipor IG770, which is their smallest & cheapest but adequate for our 30A charger. £263 is the cheapest I've seen it.

 

(I'm having second thoughts about buying a generator at all though, partly because of concerns about safe storage, partly because running one is perceived as being a bit anti-social, and partly because I could do without the ongoing expense and faff involved in running it. I'm now considering taking a punt on Leoch lead carbon batteries, which are claimed to be faster charging and not to need a full charge as often as standard lead acid batteries. Running the engine for maybe 2 hours a day in winter, getting hot water into the bargain, I can live with; it was the extra 4 hours plus required to get standard lead acid batteries from maybe 80-odd percent to 100% that had me wondering about a generator.)

[Richard10002]

11 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That generator is 900 watts continuous rating.

 

It will depend on what charger you have as some makes are only 60% efficient (Power factor of 0.6), Some are as high as 90% and some with 'expensive electronics' can work on a Pf of 1

 

If you have a 'good' charger it should run a 40a charger OK

If you have a 'bad' charger it won't run a 40 a charger.

The Honda EU10i is a 1000w generator, with a continuous rating of 900watt, as you say.

 

If attached to a 40A charger with a power factor of 0.6 it ought to run it fine for a while.

 

40A x 14.8V = 592w x 1.666 = 986watts.

 

Begs the question, how long the genny would have to run before the period is considered continuous?

 

I suppose it would be safer to buy a 35A charger, or one where you know the power factor.

[Dr Bob]

38 minutes ago, magictime said:

I've been umm-ing and aah-ing about buying a Kipor IG770, which is their smallest & cheapest but adequate for our 30A charger. £263 is the cheapest I've seen it.

 

(I'm having second thoughts about buying a generator at all though, partly because of concerns about safe storage, partly because running one is perceived as being a bit anti-social, and partly because I could do without the ongoing expense and faff involved in running it. I'm now considering taking a punt on Leoch lead carbon batteries, which are claimed to be faster charging and not to need a full charge as often as standard lead acid batteries. Running the engine for maybe 2 hours a day in winter, getting hot water into the bargain, I can live with; it was the extra 4 hours plus required to get standard lead acid batteries from maybe 80-odd percent to 100% that had me wondering about a generator.)

Do we know how often you have to take lead carbons up to 100%? David John on cruising the cut fitted them in the spring but hasn't given an update since......unless I missed it.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

The Honda EU10i is a 1000w generator, with a continuous rating of 900watt, as you say.

 

If attached to a 40A charger with a power factor of 0.6 it ought to run it fine for a while.

 

40A x 14.8V = 592w x 1.666 = 986watts.

 

Begs the question, how long the genny would have to run before the period is considered continuous?

 

I suppose it would be safer to buy a 35A charger, or one where you know the power factor.

But ………...

 

It won't be putting out 40 amps at 14.8 volts will it.

 

As the voltage increase the current drops (unless it is a really cheapo with no control - like the Halfords one I use which out puts 4 amps and the voltage is never ending - I normally switch it off after an hour at about 15.5 - 16.0 volts and the batteries have had a good 'fizzing')

 

I would prefer not to run any engine at 'max revs' - it doesn't do it much good, it doesn't contribute towards longevity and it is noisy. I would rather run (say) a 1600w generator  at 54% than a 900w at 96% (40a x 13v x divided by 0.6  = 866w)

[magictime]

12 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Do we know how often you have to take lead carbons up to 100%? David John on cruising the cut fitted them in the spring but hasn't given an update since......unless I missed it.

The closest I can find to an answer to this, given in practical terms, is given here in relation to Victron's lead carbon batteries by a member of Victron's staff:

 

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/22449/do-my-victron-lead-carbon-batteries-need-equalizin.html

 

His advice is: "At "normal "usage an equalize isnt needed. Only when the charging is regular done less then perfect and/or the battery suffers from deep discharge.

At max 50% DoD and a 100% full charge at least every week/two weeks i would recommend not to equalize."

I'm assuming that his reason for thinking an equalization charge isn't needed with such a regime, is that there shouldn't be any build-up of sulphation on the plates.

That would seem to fit with my understanding that while lead carbons aren't claimed to be completely immune to sulphation, they're a lot more resistant to it than standard lead acids. So, while regularly going a week between 100% charges with standard lead acids might be pushing it if you don't want to significantly shorten their lifespan, doing the same with lead carbons should be fine.

If this is correct, and applies equally to other lead carbon batteries, they look like an excellent fit for off-grid winter boating, especially if CCing in a pattern that means the engine getting a good long run at least every week or two just in the course of cruising - which would suit us very well.

(I say 'winter boating' because in our case, solar and frequent cruising should make the whole 100% charge thing a bit of a non-issue for us in summer.)

Edited October 1, 2019 by magictime

[Dr Bob]

2 hours ago, magictime said:

That would seem to fit with my understanding that while lead carbons aren't claimed to be completely immune to sulphation, they're a lot more resistant to it than standard lead acids. So, while regularly going a week between 100% charges with standard lead acids might be pushing it if you don't want to significantly shorten their lifespan, doing the same with lead carbons should be fine.

If this is correct, and applies equally to other lead carbon batteries, they look like an excellent fit for off-grid winter boating, especially if CCing in a pattern that means the engine getting a good long run at least every week or two just in the course of cruising - which would suit us very well.

 

Yep. It will be interesting to hear how people get on with them.

[magictime]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Yep. It will be interesting to hear how people get on with them.

All it needs now is some mug to shell out £960 on four of them in the hope that the claims being made are accurate... Now, where did I put my wallet...

[Dr Bob]

18 minutes ago, magictime said:

All it needs now is some mug to shell out £960 on four of them in the hope that the claims being made are accurate... Now, where did I put my wallet...

Nah, go for 2nd hand Li's.

Far more fun!

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, magictime said:

All it needs now is some mug to shell out £960 on four of them in the hope that the claims being made are accurate... Now, where did I put my wallet...

 

Indeed, that is why with any new technology I wait to see how it performs for 3 or 4 years minimum.

 

It can be an expensive business being a guinea pig.