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Philip

New carpet wallpaper

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I'm looking at applying some new carpet 'wallpaper' in the cabin to replace the original 1980s beige carpet which is pretty dilapidated and dusty. Rather than ripping out the old stuff I'm thinking of using glue to stick the new stuff over the old, as ripping out will mean all the old carpet fibres will go everywhere (just the slightest brush against it is enough to leave a mess now!), plus it'll mean added insulation.

 

Any recommendations for some good quality stuff? I need something that is easy to cut, as the layout is around the long rectangular windows and under the gunnel, rather than one big block.

Edited by Philip

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If the old fibres are falling out as badly as you say won't the  new carpet and glue just pull the old fibres off the backing. At the very least I suggest an attack on the old carpets by a decent vacuum cleaner to get as many of the old fibres off as possible.

 

I use gel back polypropylene carpet and the hard rubbery back is often marked to assist cutting but I would not put it by a bed because the fibres are hard and uncomfortable. You can also take it out and hose it off if loose laid but this is no help in your situation. On my boat with no carpet in the lower hull insides I stuck the gel to cheap thin plywood and screwed the whole thing to the side using plastic screw cups with push on covers. Maybe something like that would answer but I bet the old fibres will still find their way out.

 

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Thanks

 

I have tried hovering it in the past, but the problem is it isn't dirty as such, rather the fibres are falling apart so hovering hasn't made much of a difference.

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I don't want to knock your idea, I've never actually done it so I can only give my thoughts and opinions. 

 

I assume that the carper on the walls are a tight weave but even so carpets are incredibly absorbent and as they degrade become drier and fragile; fragile and absorbent doesn't make a good surface to stick anything to but carpets have a added bonus they are themselves are quite heavy and meant to be laid flat not upright. 

 

I think if you really must leave the old carpet up then you will need to do something to prepare it before applying the glue (which ever glue you go with) so that you're giving the glue a better surface to work with. In the same way that you would need to seal a newly plastered wall, I think you will need to seal this carpet. If you don't and you stick the new stuff directly on to the old it may go well for a bit but it may also end in tears and temper tantrums quite quickly which will leave you back at square on removing the old carpet anyway, only this time you've made it a bigger and harder job than it needed to be. My knee jerk reaction is to say use emulsion to seal it, it's cheap, easy to apply with a roller, yes it will take quite a bit longer than normal you dry but if you start really early and pick a nice hot day to do it this will help with that. If you do use emulsion don't use too much at once, two thin coats better than one thick one and all that. Another sealant (but just as a sealant) option might be that crafters white PVA glue, you can buy it 5L at a time and it's as cheap as chips; however I reckon it'll be a nightmarish experience to apply. Of course what ever glue you choose to use to stick your new carpet up with will work as a sealant too but I'm assuming it will be quite a bit more expensive and over kill for a prep job. 

 

Another possibly less messy and possibly easier to rectify should it all go horribly wrong it the heavy duty velcro which is specifically designed for holding up, mostly wood I think, wall coverings. 

 

Personally I wouldn't even consider sticking new carpet on top of old stuff, though I can understand why you want to do it, I think that the old carpet will continue to degrade under the new carpet causing the whole thing to lose its integrity and you'll end up replacing the whole lot much quicker than you would other wise. 

 

 

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On 12/07/2019 at 07:42, Tony Brooks said:

If the old fibres are falling out as badly as you say won't the  new carpet and glue just pull the old fibres off the backing. 

 

29 minutes ago, Tumshie said:

Personally I wouldn't even consider sticking new carpet on top of old stuff, though I can understand why you want to do it, I think that the old carpet will continue to degrade under the new carpet causing the whole thing to lose its integrity and you'll end up replacing the whole lot much quicker than you would other wise. 

I agree with the above. However nasty a job I really think you need to remove the old carpet first. Painting it with a really dilute PVA solution first (and letting that dry) might help to stabilise it somewhat and make the job a little less messy and dusty. 

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1 hour ago, Tumshie said:

I don't want to knock your idea, I've never actually done it so I can only give my thoughts and opinions. 

 

I assume that the carper on the walls are a tight weave but even so carpets are incredibly absorbent and as they degrade become drier and fragile; fragile and absorbent doesn't make a good surface to stick anything to but carpets have a added bonus they are themselves are quite heavy and meant to be laid flat not upright. 

 

 

That is why I chose the carpet type I referred to. I agree if it has natural fibres but polypropylene should not absorb damp and I have never felt amp on the wall carpet. The same carpet on the floor does get wet if you stand on it when dripping water or spill something on it but it does not actually absorb. Any liquid more like just sits on the backing and fibres.  As with all polypropylene the fibres will harden with age  but it is fairly cheap carpet so its not too bad to renew it although mine must be 15 or more years old.

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I've always thought that carpet up the walls on boats seems particularly naff, so if it were me I'd just get rid of it all and certainly wouldn't put more up.

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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is why I chose the carpet type I referred to. I agree if it has natural fibres but polypropylene should not absorb damp and I have never felt amp on the wall carpet. The same carpet on the floor does get wet if you stand on it when dripping water or spill something on it but it does not actually absorb. Any liquid more like just sits on the backing and fibres.  As with all polypropylene the fibres will harden with age  but it is fairly cheap carpet so its not too bad to renew it although mine must be 15 or more years old.

Perhaps absorbent was the wrong choice of words. It's not that the fibres are going to absorb the glue / paint / moisture it's that carpet has a monumental surface area. When we think of carpet surface area we think of the part that we run our hand over but that's really just the tip of it. All those fibres create little pockets that the glue will fill up and spread out into leaving the outer surface that you want the new carpet to stick to with less glue available to do the job of work that you intended. Of course it all rather depends how viscous your glue is as to how much extra you have to apply to accommodate creep. 

 

 

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Staple the new carpet to the wall, if there is something solid behind for the staple to grip.

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Firstly the old carpet is probably falling to bits due to UV stabilisation no longer working from age, so the disintegration is only gonna get worse, sealed or not. 

 

Secondly, the sheer volume of paint/pva/whatever needed to soak all the way in/through to saturate and lock up the fibres in the carpet backing makes it a non starter in my opinion.

 

Best is to bite the bullet and remove it but if you cant face that, encapuslate it to contain all future disintegration by covering it with new plywood screwed in place through the old carpet into the original backing board at about 8” centres all over. Then finish the new ply in paint, carpet or whatever you think looks good ;)  

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1 hour ago, Tumshie said:

Perhaps absorbent was the wrong choice of words. It's not that the fibres are going to absorb the glue / paint / moisture it's that carpet has a monumental surface area. When we think of carpet surface area we think of the part that we run our hand over but that's really just the tip of it. All those fibres create little pockets that the glue will fill up and spread out into leaving the outer surface that you want the new carpet to stick to with less glue available to do the job of work that you intended. Of course it all rather depends how viscous your glue is as to how much extra you have to apply to accommodate creep. 

 

 

Ah - I agree and I hope as good as said so in my first post on this subject. I thought you were on about absorbing moisture. There is no short cut on this job in my view. Two choices, pull the old carpet off or stick new carpet to ply and screw it over the old but that is a bodge.

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On 13/07/2019 at 20:14, Tumshie said:

 

 

Personally I wouldn't even consider sticking new carpet on top of old stuff, though I can understand why you want to do it, I think that the old carpet will continue to degrade under the new carpet causing the whole thing to lose its integrity and you'll end up replacing the whole lot much quicker than you would other wise. 

 

 

I would have to agree. I would think it would be a  bit akin to putting new paint straight over degraded paint. Could look ok briefly, but as always, the durability of the top layer is totally dependant on the durability of what is underneath.

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I think the covering it with ply is the best of a bad lot but for me it's still a bodge too far. Yes ripping the carpet off the wall is going to cause a pain in the butt mess but it's a mess that if you prep your space for is an easily cleaned up mess. The more gentle you are about removing the carpet the less the dust and debris will be wafted around the boat but if you prep your boat before hand you could probably get both the job of removing the carpet and cleaning up the mess done relatively quickly. 

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I tried to remove carpet glued to plywood from the lower cabin sides but found that the bond between the carpet and wood was stronger than that between the plies of wood so I ended up encapsulating it.

 

JP

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2 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I tried to remove carpet glued to plywood from the lower cabin sides but found that the bond between the carpet and wood was stronger than that between the plies of wood so I ended up encapsulating it.

 

JP

Is it common practice to glue that carpet to the wall, I kinda just assumed it would be stapled / tacked?

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2 hours ago, Tumshie said:

Is it common practice to glue that carpet to the wall

Yup. 

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1 minute ago, WotEver said:

Yup. 

Note to self: never buying a boat with carpet. :D

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1 hour ago, Tumshie said:

Note to self: never buying a boat with carpet. :D

Don't be so pessimistic. After 30 years the carpet on the bedroom walls is still in good condition and well stuck to the wood behind it.

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Looks like I might have to bite the bullet then and try and rip it all out, although this in itself might not be easy if th carpet was fitted to the mould before the windows went in. 

 

I've read about someone sticking batterns to the walls and using kingspan material to insulate and then ply and 4-way stretch carpet on top. Sounds interesting!

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2 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

Don't be so pessimistic. After 30 years the carpet on the bedroom walls is still in good condition and well stuck to the wood behind it.

Mine too. 

Was/is good quality. 

I can’t walk up walls so cant say it’s had much wear. 

 I’m not sure what colour it is anymore. It was originally described as a purple. Looks red brown to me. But I’m colour blind so don’t really care. 

Maybe I’ll shake and vac. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

Don't be so pessimistic

 

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

Maybe I’ll shake and vac. 

With all my dogs and outdoorsiness I'm not very good to carpets. 😬

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