Consultation on exhaust emissions on inland waterways

[frangar]

16 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No he means a very large bulldozer! Think you should Google it apparently its way cheaper to operate than a diesel one?

You mean the CAT D6XE diesel electric one?? Not exactly battery powered zero emission is it? More a generator powering a electric motor...a so called hybrid..... 

 

They are prototyping a 26 ton 360 digger but charging it on a site that doesn’t have a mains supply...not unusual...will still require a generator 

Edited July 28, 2019 by frangar

[Flyboy]

12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No he means a very large bulldozer! Think you should Google it apparently its way cheaper to operate than a diesel one?

If you are refering to the Caterpillar D7E it has a 230Hp diesel driving a generator, so it's just diesel /electric.  Not very green.

[GUMPY]

The whole point of this consultation is not looking at our carbon footprint and the gasses that contribute to that, its about NOX and people being affected locally where the polloution occours.

As I view it NOX is a good thing it will kill off the weak and feeble thus strengthening the populace, a nice relatively  random way of population reduction.

The reduction of diesel cars has done SFA to reduce our carbon footprint in fact emmissions have gone up alarmingly over the last 12 months all just to save little Tristram and Henrietta..........

 

[Flyboy]

32 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No he means a very large bulldozer! Think you should Google it apparently its way cheaper to operate than a diesel one?

Can't find anything on Google, please post the link on here or is it just another one of your wild claims. Plenty of diesel electric (Hybrid) bulldozers, been around for years.

[dmr]

I am finding it a little tricky to get a figure of CO2 produced per person on a typical holiday flight, I suspect some of them ignore the take off, but if living on a boat, or hiring for a week, results in just one less overseas holiday then the environment likely benefits.

 

..............Dave

 

 

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Johny London said:

I just don't understand this pro ICE thing some people seem to have in their heads. Ok so it's a big challenge moving away from burning stuff to going electric, but that doesn't mean it cant be done. If we don't all do something then the planet is probably doomed.

I suppose funding for boat electric charging points would have to come from government grants, maybe local councils, CRT and ultimately just boaters and tax payers - what do you want me to say?

Where there's a will there's a way - but we could just say "can't" and just bury our heads in the sand I suppose.

 

For over 40 years I worked in the critical power supply industry, mainly providing diesel engined standby generators, for hospitals (to allow operations and life support systems to continue during periods of mains failure, telephone exchanges (to allow 999 calls and emergency service communications to continue) and data centres (to allow the internet and banking to continue).

 

Apart from massive batteries (all the above examples have batteries capable of supporting the load for up to one hours),  how could you provide an electric solution to the above? The only other viable solution I am aware of is flywheel technology, but that can only cover mains outages of up to a second or two?

 

I don't think the diesel engine is dead yet.

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, cuthound said:

I don't think the diesel engine is dead yet.

 

But maybe the ability to allow hospital operations and life support systems to continue during periods of mains failure, telephone exchanges (to allow 999 calls and emergency service communications to continue) and data centres (to allow the internet and banking to continue) will be no longer be an option in the 'Brave New World' (Copyright Aldous Huxley)

 

Brave New World is a dystopian novel by English author Aldous Huxley, written in 1931 and published in 1932. Largely set in a futuristic World State of genetically modified citizens and an intelligence-based social hierarchy, the novel anticipates huge scientific developments in reproductive technology, sleep-learning, psychological manipulation, and classical conditioning, that are combined to make a utopian society that goes challenged only by a single outsider.

[Boater Sam]

The bleeding hearts banging on about emissions  of CO2 miss one thing, we are carbon based animals. Nothing we can do about that except answer the problem in the logical way and severely reduce population.

 

They will have us all living in caves eating nuts and berries if this silliness is allowed to develop.

 

One fact is certain, this planet that we overpopulate will look after itself. If that means without the human race, so be it.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Boater Sam

[Onionman]

3 hours ago, Loddon said:

The whole point of this consultation is not looking at our carbon footprint and the gasses that contribute to that, its about NOX and people being affected locally where the polloution occours.

As I view it NOX is a good thing it will kill off the weak and feeble thus strengthening the populace, a nice relatively  random way of population reduction.

The reduction of diesel cars has done SFA to reduce our carbon footprint in fact emmissions have gone up alarmingly over the last 12 months all just to save little Tristram and Henrietta..........

 

That would certainly be surprising as the UK has been improving on that measure for a long time. Latest stats I could find from the ONS.

 

 

1 minute ago, Boater Sam said:

The bleeding hearts banging on about emissions  of CO2 miss one thing, we are carbon based animals. Nothing we can do about that except answer the problem in the logical way and severely reduce population.

 

They will have us all living in caves eating nuts and berries if this silliness is allowed to develop.

We're already doing a great deal about it. Not enough yet, but a great deal. All without our having to live in caves.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Onionman

[Boater Sam]

8 minutes ago, Onionman said:

That would certainly be surprising as the UK has been improving on that measure for a long time. Latest stats I could find from the ONS.

 

 

We're already doing a great deal about it. Not enough yet, but a great deal. All without our having to live in caves.

Brilliant, its a start.  But will the bleeding hearts be satisfied that it will be enough for civilisation to carry on developing? I doubt it.  Looking for a comfy cave..........................

[Flyboy]

37 minutes ago, Onionman said:

That would certainly be surprising as the UK has been improving on that measure for a long time. Latest stats I could find from the ONS.

 

 

We're already doing a great deal about it. Not enough yet, but a great deal. All without our having to live in caves.

Have you got graphs for USA, China, India & Russia ?

[Onionman]

11 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

Have you got graphs for USA, China, India & Russia ?

 

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=china+india+russia+greenhouse+gas+emission+graph+images

Edited July 28, 2019 by Onionman

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, Onionman said:

That would certainly be surprising as the UK has been improving on that measure for a long time. Latest stats I could find from the ONS.

 

 

That was until 2018 I think that you will find in the last 12months it has spiked upwards.

[Onionman]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

That was until 2018 I think that you will find in the last 12months it has spiked upwards.

Entirely possible, but I couldn't find any data. I would point out, though that half of the "last 12 months" number is included in the 2018 number on that graph, so, as I say, it would surprise me.

What was the source of the "spike" claim?

[StephenA]

7 hours ago, frangar said:

Well at present I’ve got some 275kv overhead lines above where I’m moored....but not much else for miles...guess that should recharge me batteries pretty quickly..?

 

How exactly are you expecting this infrastructure to be paid for...when I got a quote 20 years ago to have a grid feed supplied to a mooring which would have required the 11kv lines extended by 100m and a transformer I was quoted between £15k-£20k +VAT from the electricity board...that’s without the on site distribution. 

 

This is something I've asked several times - but don't get an answer. Solar isn't the solution for more than a couple of hours per day, so plugin overnight charging seems to be the only obvious solution - but the cost is just insane.

[Onionman]

7 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

This is something I've asked several times - but don't get an answer. Solar isn't the solution for more than a couple of hours per day, so plugin overnight charging seems to be the only obvious solution - but the cost is just insane.

 

A possible solution that's been outlined in this thread is that if you could charge as often as, as fast as (and possibly when) you fill your water tank, it becomes far less difficult to set up the infrastructure as you have discrete charging points rather than having to have electricity supply points along the full length of the towpath.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Onionman

[TrippinAround]

7 hours ago, frangar said:

You mean the jcb (very) mini digger that works for 2 hours being used intensively then needs 8 hours plugged into a diesel genny via a 110v site transformer as high voltage isn’t allowed on site & often grid  power isn’t available....

If you charge it by a diesel genny then yeah, obviously not very green. May I suggest charging via a gerbil powered flywheel. And if grid power is not available probably not a good choice which I never claimed it was. 

I am not trying to say the battery power density is there yet for all machines but it's coming. Here is a link to a big toy

 https://www.electrive.com/2018/04/23/empas-edumper-is-the-worlds-largest-electric-truck/

7 hours ago, StephenA said:

Which is fine unless you are in the situation that you might have to leave your house at any time during the night and drive a couple of hundred miles - which is a situation I was in moderately recently.

Then perhaps stop at a charger on the way, just as you would with a gas/petrol powered car. I am going out on a limb thinking you don't have this situation every week and going further out on a limb guessing you don't normally fill your car's petrol tank at home every night.

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, Boater Sam said:

The bleeding hearts banging on about emissions  of CO2 miss one thing, we are carbon based animals. Nothing we can do about that except answer the problem in the logical way and severely reduce population.

So I assume you are first in the line of voluneers for the chop?   The point is unless folk volunteer for euthanasia which I assume you would we can only look at reducing population comparatively slowly.  While that is happening it makes sense (to me at least) to do what we can to reduce CO² and other pollutants.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, jakk said:

May I suggest charging via a gerbil powered flywheel.

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[GUMPY]

35 minutes ago, Onionman said:

Entirely possible, but I couldn't find any data. I would point out, though that half of the "last 12 months" number is included in the 2018 number on that graph, so, as I say, it would surprise me.

What was the source of the "spike" claim?

Several reports in various rags. One as example

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/27/co2-emissions-from-average-uk-new-car-rise-for-first-time-since-2000

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, jakk said:

Then perhaps stop at a charger on the way, just as you would with a gas/petrol powered car. I am going out on a limb thinking you don't have this situation every week and going further out on a limb guessing you don't normally fill your car's petrol tank at home every night.

My car will do 400+ miles on a tank of Diesel, the majority of 'affordable' cars (forget Tesla) have a range of 150 miles (less in the dark, wet or cold weather) so I would need to 'fill up' the leccy about 3 times to be equivalent.

As I have stated before, My boat is 330 miles away from home so It would take me 2 charges in the car to get there and (probably) a night in a hotel.

 

 

My Cruisier has a fuel range of 2000+ miles how many batteries would I need (and how could I recharge them) to have anywhere near the same range.

There are no 're-charge' points between Hull and Norway / Holland / Denmark etc.

[GUMPY]

11 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So I assume you are first in the line of voluneers for the chop?   The point is unless folk volunteer for euthanasia which I assume you would we can only look at reducing population comparatively slowly.  While that is happening it makes sense (to me at least) to do what we can to reduce CO² and other pollutants.

that's why NOX is so good no climate change and random culling of humans

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

My car will do 400+ miles on a tank of Diesel, the majority of 'affordable' cars (forget Tesla) have a range of 150 miles (less in the dark, wet or cold weather) so I would need to 'fill up' the leccy about 3 times to be equivalent.

As I have stated before, My boat is 330 miles away from home so It would take me 2 charges in the car to get there and (probably) a night in a hotel.

 

 

My Cruisier has a fuel range of 2000+ miles how many batteries would I need (and how could I recharge them) to have anywhere near the same range.

There are no 're-charge' points between Hull and Norway / Holland / Denmark etc.

But don't you know you shouldn't be doing that milage its unsustainable

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Loddon

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

that's why NOX is so good no climate change and random culling of humans

But don't you know you shouldn't be doing that milage its unsustainable

 

Whilst there are holiday makers going 12,000 miles in a gas-guzzling jet I will enforce my right to travel 300 miles in my car (legislation aside).

[Boater Sam]

3 minutes ago, Jerra said:

So I assume you are first in the line of voluneers for the chop?   The point is unless folk volunteer for euthanasia which I assume you would we can only look at reducing population comparatively slowly.  While that is happening it makes sense (to me at least) to do what we can to reduce CO² and other pollutants.

I don't know what a "Volunteer" would be. I am already ahead having been dead once.

At my age I will be gone before the present efforts make any substantial difference, so I will be doing my bit, dude, what about you?

Perhaps population reduction will still be quicker than scrapping all diesel and petrol engine to burn more fuel building windmills and solar panels to provide an insufficient amount of power for  charging everyone's cars at the same time every night?  That is just not going to happen, the infrastructure will never cope with the  load.

Show me a farm tractor, powered by electricity from renewables that will plough with a 12 furrow plough 10 hours a day, or an electric powered plant machine like a bulldozer, digger or grader.

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, Boater Sam said:

I don't know what a "Volunteer" would be. I am already ahead having been dead once.

At my age I will be gone before the present efforts make any substantial difference, so I will be doing my bit, dude, what about you?

Perhaps population reduction will still be quicker than scrapping all diesel and petrol engine to burn more fuel building windmills and solar panels to provide an insufficient amount of power for  charging everyone's cars at the same time every night?  That is just not going to happen, the infrastructure will never cope with the  load.

Show me a farm tractor, powered by electricity from renewables that will plough with a 12 furrow plough 10 hours a day, or an electric powered plant machine like a bulldozer, digger or grader.

Two points first one is I am already doing what I can to reduce my environmental foot print with regard to population reduction being well into my 70 I will shuffle of this mortal coil fairly soon.  However the likes of you and I snuffing it will not rapidly change the population numbers change will be slow.

 

I see it is still a case of we must keep our current way/standard of living so will not change until we can keep living in a manner to which we would like to become acustomed. It would make a big difference if travel for pleasure and to work was either electric or public.  The tractor and its 12 furrow plough could be allowed to go on a bit longer if that happened.  There are also other methods of cultivation to be explored and developed, no dig gardening has been around for decades.