Jump to content

Consultation on exhaust emissions on inland waterways


GUMPY

Featured Posts

7 hours ago, Jerra said:

For the government they have to start somewhere.  Low hanging fruit such as boaters would seem to them a good place to start.   Having picked a few low hanging fruit, when they turn to the fruit higher up, the said fruit will be thinking they are serious about this look what happened to X Y and Z.

The problem is that the technology / infrastructure needed to solve the low hanging fruit comes from solving the not so low hanging fruit.  Better solar panels, better batteries (capacity, charge speed etc), better charging systems and so on will not come from the low hanging fruit as the return on investment just isn't big enough.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, IanD said:

Once these problems are solved, the same solution will work for narrowboats -- meaning not just building the infrastucture but paying for it by profit made on selling the power.

 

As far as heating is concerned -- probably the main energy user in marinas -- the answer is exactly the same, but with houses instead of cars. There are >1000x more houses than narrowboats and the fossil fuel problem has to be (and will be) solved for them too; whatever the solution is, it will also be applied to boats.

 

I suggest people stop worrying about how these problems will be solved for narrowboats and realise that they *will* be solved for cars (transport) and houses (heating) and boats will effectively get a "free ride" on the back of this development, so in the future they can look forward to silent boating without a trail of diesel fumes.

 

But the problem is that the Government seems to looking at hitting narrowboats before cars - so the solutions will not have been developed to a point that they are affordable for consumers before people are forced to use them.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/07/2019 at 15:37, Loddon said:

This was the handout at the announcement and it will apply to inland waterways

 

 

IMG_20190711_153514.jpg

 

Interesting rereading this in the light of some of the more hysterical responses to this thread. Where is the part that says diesel will be banned on inland waterways any time soon? Or that boats will have to have engines replaced? Etc, etc.

Edited by Onionman
  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

Jerra for you I will make an exception, we both know how sticky this situation is, I do my bit not for me but my kids and grand kids! I am 61 and if I am lucky will die of old age, I want the younger generation to have the same choice

I am 73 and you sum things up admirably above.

49 minutes ago, StephenA said:

The problem is that the technology / infrastructure needed to solve the low hanging fruit comes from solving the not so low hanging fruit.  Better solar panels, better batteries (capacity, charge speed etc), better charging systems and so on will not come from the low hanging fruit as the return on investment just isn't big enough.

 

 

You are assuming that the govt cares whether the low hanging fruit ripens, withers or rots.  They may be a sacrifice.  Everybody seems to assume they have the right to have a boat and continue as they wish.  This may not be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Interesting rereading this in the light of some of the more hysterical responses to this thread. Where is the part that says diesel will be banned on inland waterways any time soon? Or that boats will have to have engines replaced? Etc, etc.

 

Thanks for posting that - so that suggests more a move to 100% biofuels as one of the various options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

Thanks for posting that - so that suggests more a move to 100% biofuels as one of the various options.

At present the boat/plant engine manufacturers seem to be recommending no more the 5% biofuel mixed with normal diesel.  A move to 100% biofuel suggests you may still require a new engine or some sort of upgrade.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

At present the boat/plant engine manufacturers seem to be recommending no more the 5% biofuel mixed with normal diesel.  A move to 100% biofuel suggests you may still require a new engine or some sort of upgrade.

True - though a friend did run his Ford diesel car on home produced bio fuel for several years : it just needed to start on diesel and you purged it through with diesel before stopping.

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

At present the boat/plant engine manufacturers seem to be recommending no more the 5% biofuel mixed with normal diesel.  A move to 100% biofuel suggests you may still require a new engine or some sort of upgrade.

This is where us vintage engine mob might win! My JP will run on most stuff...and is much more environmentally friendly than having to make a new engine....besides they make a much nicer noise than a whining electric motor....thinking about it maybe the motors reflect the owners...a constant whining drone.....

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Onionman said:

 

Interesting rereading this in the light of some of the more hysterical responses to this thread. Where is the part that says diesel will be banned on inland waterways any time soon? Or that boats will have to have engines replaced? Etc, etc.

I take it you havn't actually read the thread or the Government documents ?

 

(Did the next page (or flip side ?) have the following) :

 

Note - NO FOSSIL FUELS BY 2050

No petrol, no diesel, no LPG !!!!


 
2. Maritime 2050 and the Clean Maritime Plan: the Government’s ambition for a zero-emissions maritime sector by 2050 
 
In addition to supporting the specific measures in the Government’s Clean Air Strategy to tackle air pollutant emissions from the UK’s maritime and inland waterways sectors, the Department for Transport has the long-term ambition to see a transition to low and eventually zero emissions. The expectation that the maritime sector will transition away from fossil fuels, as set out in the Department’s Maritime 2050 Strategy (published in January 2019), extends to all parts of the sector, including those vessels on inland waterways and in coastal waters that the Department is seeking to gather information on through this Call for Evidence.  The steps the UK could take in the short, medium and long-term to make the zero emissions ambition a reality will be contained within the Department’s Clean Maritime Plan. The aim of the Plan is to promote innovation and encourage the uptake of zero emission technologies in the maritime sector, rather than prescribe a specific approach or set of measures for vessel owners and industry to take:  “The UK Clean Maritime Plan, which will be published in 2019, will seek to consider the barriers to market for technological solutions to achieving zero emission shipping and the potential for the UK to capture our share of the economic benefits from this transition.” The Clean Maritime Plan will be the beginning of a wider dialogue with industry and the public over steps to deliver low and ultimately zero emissions shipping. In order to further develop technically-sound and proportionate policy measures to meet the Department’s ambition for a zero emissions maritime sector, the Department is now focused on reviewing and where necessary establishing the evidence base needed for effective policymaking. This Call for Evidence forms part of this important information-gathering process and is intended to illuminate areas of the sector where data is currently sparse or lacking. 

 
 
 
 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

At present the boat/plant engine manufacturers seem to be recommending no more the 5% biofuel mixed with normal diesel.  A move to 100% biofuel suggests you may still require a new engine or some sort of upgrade.

I would think that many diesels prior to 2001 will run on 100%bio, my 2001 VW Polo did for years, its only really euro 5 and 6 that wont.

 

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The expectation that the maritime sector will transition away from fossil fuels, as set out in the Department’s Maritime 2050 Strategy (published in January 2019), extends to all parts of the sector, including those vessels on inland waterways and in coastal waters that the Department is seeking to gather information on through this Call for Evidence

In 2050 I wont care, I will either be 98 or dead

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, StephenA said:

True - though a friend did run his Ford diesel car on home produced bio fuel for several years : it just needed to start on diesel and you purged it through with diesel before stopping.

 

 

Yes, a friend of mine used to run his Rover on used chipshop oil.  He had major problems in the winter when its viscosity increased big time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Flyboy said:

Yes, a friend of mine used to run his Rover on used chipshop oil.  He had major problems in the winter when its viscosity increased big time.

Never had a problem with the Polo even in winter but it was allegedly proper bio diesel not chip shop oil.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I would think that many diesels prior to 2001 will run on 100%bio, my 2001 VW Polo did for years, its only really euro 5 and 6 that wont.

 

In 2050 I wont care, I will either be 98 or dead

Neither will I and won't be particularly worried for years before that.

 

The consensus in this thread seems to be "I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it so my Kids / grandkids can live as long as I have" .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Never had a problem with the Polo even in winter but it was allegedly proper bio diesel not chip shop oil.

I believe some people doctor used chip shop oil with chemicals/solvents to make it more like commercial biofuel. I don't know exactly how it's done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Neither will I and won't be particularly worried for years before that.

 

The consensus in this thread seems to be "I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it so my Kids / grandkids can live as long as I have" .

So those of us who are sensible and haven’t bred are fine to keep blowing smoke rings! Yippee!  

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Neither will I and won't be particularly worried for years before that.

 

The consensus in this thread seems to be "I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it so my Kids / grandkids can live as long as I have" .

My kids will be in their late 60s early 70s by then and there are and never will be grandkids with my DNA ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dragging through my memory banks the only problem with running bio in older engines is that some of the rubber seals perish and need to be replaced with ISTR Nitrile.  Any diesel engine that has  got an EGR or DPF will not run on bio, neither will VW CR or PD engines or indeed anything with a similar  high pressure fuel pump.

As someone that spent years using bio I should have thought of this earlier!

I will try and speak to Kubota/Beta to see what their views are.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

And this is with only 5% BioDiesel

 

 

Biodiesel blends have a higher content of methyl- esters, which may deteriorate certain metal, rubber 
and plastic components of the fuel system. Other characteristics are higher moisture content, cold 
temperature flow and damage to painted surfaces. Fuel supply and return system components that are 
not compatible with biodiesel could deteriorate and cause damage to the engine’s fuel system. Failure 
caused by non-compatible material will void the engine warranty. Customer and or Boat builder are 
responsible to verify the usage of biodiesel compatible components on the vessel fuel supply and return 
systems.     

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.