Consultation on exhaust emissions on inland waterways

[Johny London]

19 hours ago, Loddon said:

Could this be the beginning of the end for diesel engines on inland waterways.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/domestic-shipping-air-pollution-call-for-evidence

 

If you can I suggest that you answer it!

Getting back to the original question.... let's hope so!

I for one would be more than happy to trade my dirty noisy stinky old oil burner for a clean, silent electric drive.

I can't believe all the nay sayers - Peterboat has the right idea - what's not to like??? Charge as much as possible from solar, the rest off electric points. Hopefully they'll bring these in on VM's initially, gradually increasing to other popular mooring spots. 

I'm sick of the smell of diesel coming in the boat everytime someone goes past! Or having a perfectly good cruise ruined by the rattle and stink. Diesel was never meant for the canals - lets go back to the true tranquillity of yesteryear.

Bring it on!

 

All that said, I can't see any harm in the odd vintage exception though.

[peterboat]

55 minutes ago, Johny London said:

Getting back to the original question.... let's hope so!

I for one would be more than happy to trade my dirty noisy stinky old oil burner for a clean, silent electric drive.

I can't believe all the nay sayers - Peterboat has the right idea - what's not to like??? Charge as much as possible from solar, the rest off electric points. Hopefully they'll bring these in on VM's initially, gradually increasing to other popular mooring spots. 

I'm sick of the smell of diesel coming in the boat everytime someone goes past! Or having a perfectly good cruise ruined by the rattle and stink. Diesel was never meant for the canals - lets go back to the true tranquillity of yesteryear.

Bring it on!

 

All that said, I can't see any harm in the odd vintage exception though.

They will be dragged by the short and curlies into the 21 century whether they like it or not, The issue is people are converting to electric new boats are being built with it, so the Government can point at people like me and say its achievable and its not to expensive.

This consultation isnt to prove its impossible its to let us know which way the wind is blowing

[frangar]

12 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They will be dragged by the short and curlies into the 21 century whether they like it or not, The issue is people are converting to electric new boats are being built with it, so the Government can point at people like me and say its achievable and its not to expensive.

This consultation isnt to prove its impossible its to let us know which way the wind is blowing

With respect your system wouldn’t allow me to travel as I wish....I prefer to move for more than 4 hours a day! I also have no wish to cover my boat in solar panels. It might suit you but it won’t suit everyone....oh and I love the sound/smell/everything about my engine....maybe I could convert to coal fired steam tho?? 

[Flyboy]

12 minutes ago, frangar said:

With respect your system wouldn’t allow me to travel as I wish....I prefer to move for more than 4 hours a day! I also have no wish to cover my boat in solar panels. It might suit you but it won’t suit everyone....oh and I love the sound/smell/everything about my engine....maybe I could convert to coal fired steam tho?? 

I wouldn't worry. Solid fuel stoves will be banned long before diesel engines.

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, blackrose said:

Electric cars and boats will help towards reducing low level air pollution but their power has to be generated somewhere, so they're not really zero-emissions at all as they still have carbon emissions - unless all the power comes from renewables.

 

And the manufacture of solar panels, wind generators and wave generators also creates carbon based emissions,.

 

There is no such thing as  pollution free, only lower pollution.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Johny London said:

Getting back to the original question.... let's hope so!

I for one would be more than happy to trade my dirty noisy stinky old oil burner for a clean, silent electric drive.

I can't believe all the nay sayers - Peterboat has the right idea - what's not to like??? Charge as much as possible from solar, the rest off electric points. Hopefully they'll bring these in on VM's initially, gradually increasing to other popular mooring spots. 

I'm sick of the smell of diesel coming in the boat everytime someone goes past! Or having a perfectly good cruise ruined by the rattle and stink. Diesel was never meant for the canals - lets go back to the true tranquillity of yesteryear.

Bring it on!

 

All that said, I can't see any harm in the odd vintage exception though.

 

 

The cost. I dont suppose a minute the Government will say "OK Cuthound, here's £20k to convert your boat to electric and have it lengthened to accommodate all the batteries and solar panels needed.

Edited July 12, 2019 by cuthound
Spillung

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

 

The cost. I dont suppose a minute the Government will say "OK Cuthound, here's £20k to convert your boat to electric and have it lengthened to accommodste all the batteries ans solar panels needed.

I really will have to post a picture of how small my motor and batteries are, probably one third of the size of the engine it replaced, maybe even a quarter the size, so your argument doesnt hold water

[furnessvale]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

That’s a CPO guidance that the force covering any particular area can follow or ignore. My missus got done for 32 in a 30 limit, so we can assume that in that area at least they allow no tolerance. It cost her a boring afternoon and eighty quid, but no points. 

I think you will find that the 32 quoted in the notice is AFTER deduction of various allowances.

 

George

[zenataomm]

53 minutes ago, peterboat said:

This consultation isnt to prove its impossible its to let us know which way the wind is blowing

Consultations are also not conducted to indicate what will happen, nor which way your wind is blowing.

Often they are done ...

1) … to gather enough evidence to present to which ever department pushing for it that it's more trouble than it's worth.

2) … to get everyone so excited and upset that when they introduce a lesser evil, everybody is relieved and accepts the lesser evil.

 

Take your pick, for I am convinced that no way will there be a blanket banning of diesel internal combustion engines on our inland waterways.

I give not a jot where you read it first, nor shall I repeatedly comment on it in a boringly smug manner when it doesn't happen.

[cuthound]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I really will have to post a picture of how small my motor and batteries are, probably one third of the size of the engine it replaced, maybe even a quarter the size, so your argument doesnt hold water

 

Yebbut your boat can only cruise for a a couple of hours without the sun shining on your mahoosive solar array.

 

I like to cruise for 6-8 hours a day, sometimes up to 12, hence I need for more space for batteries than you and having a narrowboat means I have less space than you to start off with.?

Edited July 12, 2019 by cuthound
Spillung

[Alan de Enfield]

When I had to do my 'naughty boy driving class', we all had to explain why we were there.

 

I was 'doing' 35 in a 30 zone.

We got into discussions about the inaccuracies of speedos, over reading etc.

 

As we got further into the day, the question was again asked "what speed were you doing"

 

35mph

 

So, if you were clocked doing 35mph, your speedo (at 10% over read) would be showing about 39mph - why would you be doing 39mph in a 30 zone -if you didn't realise, surely that is 'driving without due care and attention'.

 

Further discussions revealed the different 'damage' a car does to pedestrians at different speeds

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was quite illuminating that at 40mph it is an 80% death rate, whilst at 20mph it is about 5%

 

Take travelling thru a Village that is one mile from start to finish.

 

At 40mph it takes 90 seconds, at 30mph it takes 120 seconds. Time saved 30 seconds (during which time there was a 80% chance of killing a child that ran out in front of you).

 

I found the day was worth paying the £65.

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Yebbut your boat can only cruise for a a couple of hours without the sun shining on your mahoosive solar array.

 

I like to cruise for 6-8 hours a day, sometimes up to 12, hence I need for more space for bstteries than you and having a narrowboat means I have less space thsn you tp start off with.?

I can cruise for five hours without the sun shining, but on a sunny day I can cruise all day, but dont as I get bored after 3 hours or so

6 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Consultations are also not conducted to indicate what will happen, nor which way your wind is blowing.

Often they are done ...

1) … to gather enough evidence to present to which ever department pushing for it that it's more trouble than it's worth.

2) … to get everyone so excited and upset that when they introduce a lesser evil, everybody is relieved and accepts the lesser evil.

 

Take your pick, for I am convinced that no way will there be a blanket banning of diesel internal combustion engines on our inland waterways.

I give not a jot where you read it first, nor shall I repeatedly comment on it in a boringly smug manner when it doesn't happen.

Read it and then tell me that, I did twice and the first thing it says is by 2025 they want a reduction in the crap that comes out of diesel engines

[phantom_iv]

"Zero emission capability" would imply to me that some sort of diesel/electric hybrid would be acceptable as long as it is capable of running on batteries only in urban areas... where presumably plentiful charging points could be installed canalside. Then out of urban areas (where realistically charging points will be like hen's teeth) you can fire up your diesel and continue as before, with the difference being that you've now got a much better battery pack on board than before.

 

As long as the regulations are sensible and have exemptions for historic vessels etc then I can only think that the development of mainstream marine hybrid technology and battery packs and subsequent price reductions can only be a good thing.

 

Is it just me who quite fancies the idea of a vintage diesel engine driving a generator powering a modern lithium battery/electric motor combo? 

[cuthound]

Well if they do ban diesels from the inland waterways, I can see powerful sound systems with the looped sound of a vintage engine becoming popular ?

[peterboat]

13 minutes ago, phantom_iv said:

"Zero emission capability" would imply to me that some sort of diesel/electric hybrid would be acceptable as long as it is capable of running on batteries only in urban areas... where presumably plentiful charging points could be installed canalside. Then out of urban areas (where realistically charging points will be like hen's teeth) you can fire up your diesel and continue as before, with the difference being that you've now got a much better battery pack on board than before.

 

As long as the regulations are sensible and have exemptions for historic vessels etc then I can only think that the development of mainstream marine hybrid technology and battery packs and subsequent price reductions can only be a good thing.

 

Is it just me who quite fancies the idea of a vintage diesel engine driving a generator powering a modern lithium battery/electric motor combo? 

 

2 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Well if they do ban diesels from the inland waterways, I can see powerful sound systems with the looped sound of a vintage engine becoming popular ?

With a good bank of solar so that it runs infrequently I cant see the problem. This is true my electric motor is controlled by a PWM controller it makes a high pitched whine when its warm, it not bad but I am soundproofing to stop it as I love the sound of the prop swishing and the gurgle of the water

[Guest]

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, catweasel said:

That will sort out the overgrown hedgerow problem out nicely

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, peterboat said:

They will be dragged by the short and curlies into the 21 century whether they like it or not, The issue is people are converting to electric new boats are being built with it, so the Government can point at people like me and say its achievable and its not to expensive.

This consultation isnt to prove its impossible its to let us know which way the wind is blowing

Bless. yes is true we will be all electric very soon ( not ) programme on telly yesterday about sales of new cars. Lady states the sale has gone up sixty percent in the last year!! Amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing. She then states that a full one percent of cars sold in the UK last year were purely lectric ?. Its a bit like when those weirdo Vegans tell us veganism has risen 300 percent in the past two years. Well a recent sensible figure puts true veganism at around 1 percent of UK population rising to 3 percent if you believe the most optomistic.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, furnessvale said:

I think you will find that the 32 quoted in the notice is AFTER deduction of various allowances.

 

George

Not according to the pretty picture which accompanied the notice. It very clearly showed “Speed: 32mph”. 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, WotEver said:

Not according to the pretty picture which accompanied the notice. It very clearly showed “Speed: 32mph”. 

Whilst I am not questioning this it is weird. The law has always allowed a ten percent discrepency with speedometers as its long been recognised and still is that not all are totaly accurate. I would never expect anyone to be done under 34 mph. Maybe they are now allowing the lower figure so they can make even more millions from speed awareness courses??

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Whilst I am not questioning this it is weird. The law has always allowed a ten percent discrepency with speedometers as its long been recognised and still is that not all are totaly accurate. I would never expect anyone to be done under 34 mph. Maybe they are now allowing the lower figure so they can make even more millions from speed awareness courses??

Yebbut... speedos are out by up to 10% but this is always optimistic. IE they read higher. I’ve never come across a speedo that reads low. 

[Jerra]

13 hours ago, Canal321 said:

 

I also have a friend who went to a speed awareness course recently. I was told they allow you 10% plus 2 mph. So to get a fine in a 30 zone, you have to be doing at least 35mph. Just what I was told ...

It must vary from area to area, as on my speed awareness course the ex traffic cop said they used to allow 10% but now if the photo is taken it is acted on.   So I was done at 32 miles an hour going up hill, 200 yards from the end of the 30 limit with a 6 foot wall on the opposite side of the road and 6 feet of grass before a footpath on the other.

 

He also said if it was more than 3 or 4 miles over it would be court not speed awareness.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Maybe they are now allowing the lower figure so they can make even more millions from speed awareness courses??

Considering that around 50% of those two million speeding tickets issued last year resulted in attendance on a course I’d think that’s quite likely. 

 

A million lots of, what is it these days, 80 quid?

[furnessvale]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

That will sort out the overgrown hedgerow problem out nicely

Sadly, it still won't cure the greenhouse gas emissions problem! :-)

 

George

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Considering that around 50% of those two million speeding tickets issued last year resulted in attendance on a course I’d think that’s quite likely. 

 

A million lots of, what is it these days, 80 quid?

Yeah, mine ( last time ) was about that. I never used to say much but the last time I went on one for some tiny amount over in a 40 which is bloomin rare for me the bod stated that most people who speed do it in dangerous situations without extra training needed for good safe driving. I usualy keep schtum but when he asked our experiences which is a plonker thing to do I told him I had been a Police advanced driver and pusuit trained and very recently for years a DSA ADI. He said I was not on my own and would not be the last. I then said the only difference between me being caught speeding and him is that he hasnt been caught yet, he didnt deny it lol.