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Canalside welder?


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5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

But it is NOT a price for your skill and knowledge alone, is it?

 

It is a price for you being available, all previously prepared and fully tooled up to do the job at all. You paid for the training, passed the exams, bought the van, spent many £thousands on tools and equipment, bought the stock, pay the accountants, advertising, possibly a premises, your tax and probably VAT out of this too. 

 

All of this distills down into £60 an hour. 

 

 

I had one customer who said that it all very well you having all the tools, but you wont be using em all on my job will you?

 

He was so correct, I didnt use any of my tools at all, I just collected up mine and put em back in the van and went home!

 

Others, that when i get to the job then tell me that they wanted it done this way and not the way i've been doing it since i was an apprentice got told that i'm not the man you want and to do it themselves as i walked out the door! 

 

Nipper

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1 hour ago, tree monkey said:

A day rate for 2 climbers with van and chipper can be as low as £300, that's insured and qualified, you lot don't know how lucky you are.

 

Not directed specifically at you Graham 

 

As a project manager in Lo don and the South East, over 6 years ago I expected to pay £150 per 8 hour day to hire a labourer, who was unskilled, without  specialised training (although he had to hold a valid CSCS Card and be able to undertake the site induction training), who didnt have a vehicle or any other overheads.

 

Today I suspect it is closer to £200 per day or £25 per hour. Out side of London and the South East rates were lower, perhaps by 25-33%.

Edited by cuthound
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1 hour ago, nipper said:

I had one customer who said that it all very well you having all the tools, but you wont be using em all on my job will you?

 

He was so correct, I didnt use any of my tools at all, I just collected up mine and put em back in the van and went home!

 

Others, that when i get to the job then tell me that they wanted it done this way and not the way i've been doing it since i was an apprentice got told that i'm not the man you want and to do it themselves as i walked out the door! 

 

Nipper

Did you ever earn anything? :)

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3 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

Not at all. You need to speak for yourself Mike and not for me.

 

I've received cash discounts in cases where I've also received a receipt showing that vat was paid, which completely contradicts your position on this.

 

Anyway, I'll continue to politely ask for cash discounts if that's ok with you, because I know I'm not insinuating anything about the other party. And if it isn't ok with you I don't care! ?

 

 

I'd suggest you didn't get those discounts for paying in cash, you got them just for negotiating. Given that cash is an expensive and awkward type of payment to properly process and account for, I suspect you'd have got the same discount if you'd been paying by debit card. It actually makes more sense for a legitimate business not on the fiddle to give a discount for payment by debit card or bank transfer rather than cash. 

 

If they really are genuinely giving a discount for cash, the discount is conditional on getting cash and they are actually going to insist on charging a higher price for payment by traceable methods such as debit card and bank transfer, then one has  what possible benefit they are obtaining by giving the cash discount. The are only two possible benefits I can imagine. 1) Failing to declare the VAT, and 2) failing to record it in the books as a sale for income tax or corporation tax purposes.

 

Can you suggest any genuine commercial reasons for a business to charge a significantly higher price for payment by debit card over cash?

 

 

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I recently got a discounted price at a garage for paying cash. The discount was offered, not asked for. It’s happened a lot, “Cash?, lets just call it ..... then “

 

As a general rule I pay on time in cash, and I include a bit extra as a thank you when the work and customer service is really good.

 

 

 

 

And I must make it clear: I have not recommended someone to the OP who will do work on the cheap but an honest tradesman who will do an excellent job at a fair price, should the OP use him. 

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3 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

As a project manager in Lo don and the South East, over 6 years ago I expected to pay £150 per 8 hour day to hire a labourer, who was unskilled, without  specialised training (although he had to hold a valid CSCS Card and be able to undertake the site induction training), who didnt have a vehicle or any other overheads.

 

Today I suspect it is closer to £200 per day or £25 per hour. Out side of London and the South East rates were lower, perhaps by 25-33%.

Around Coventry it’s from £75/day for totally unskilled humping stuff around to about £150/day for a general handyman type labourer. 

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Can you suggest any genuine commercial reasons for a business to charge a significantly higher price for payment by debit card over cash?

The commission?

Or is there none for debit card receipts?

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1 hour ago, WotEver said:

Around Coventry it’s from £75/day for totally unskilled humping stuff around to about £150/day for a general handyman type labourer. 

The commission?

Or is there none for debit card receipts?

 

Most punters who ask for a "discount for cash" are expecting to charged the ex-VAT price, or lower, i.e. £100 cash when presented with a bill for say £120. The commission on the transaction I'd pay on my card merchant services account would be a fixed fee of (IIRC) 80p for taking payment by debit card, or 1.25% of the whole transaction value if credit card, i.e. £1.50. 

 

So if someone wants to settle a bill from me for say, £120 and get a discount for paying in cash rather than using their card, the maximum saving to me for being paid in cash is £1.50 if I had offered to accept payment by credit card, or 80p for debit card. so it might not seem unreasonable for them to expect £1.50 off "for cash". 

 

In reality cash is a PITA to handle and account for accurately, so I would be more inclined to give a discount for payment by debit card. The money lands in my bank account and in my book keeping software automatically and with no further work from me.

 

Any more discount than that and the only way I can think of to come out of the deal any better off is by cheating the tax man or the VAT man, or both.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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29 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Any more discount than that and the only way I can think of to come out of the deal any better off is by cheating the tax man or the VAT man, or both

You'd struggle in high finance then Mike.

 

I can think of about a dozen, but I assume your customers get to keep their boiler once you have fixed it, and you don't charge them extra for not condemning it!

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

You'd struggle in high finance then Mike.

 

I can think of about a dozen, but I assume your customers get to keep their boiler once you have fixed it, and you don't charge them extra for not condemning it!

 

 

 

 

Go on then...!

 

List your dozen reasons a welder mending the OP's boat might have to give a "discount for cash", other than cheating the tax man... :)

 

 

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20 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

How very true. 

 

But there is a further dimension to this, too. The customer telling me what sort of a job it is, i.e. "little" is intensely irritating. I'll be the judge of that, thank you. "If you know so much about it and it's so little, then why don't do it yourself?" is what I'm inclined to ask punters who have already decided how small a job is ad how cheap it ought to be. But by now I've decided I don't want to work for them anyway, as they are belittling the work they are asking me to do. 

 

Huh. Prima donna? Moi? 

 

 

I have people coming in to do jobs on the house that I know how to do and exactly how long they should take. 

Why don't I do them myself ? Because legally I can't as despite having the same test gear, the knowledge and  ability as the guy coming in  I would have to be registered and its cheaper to get someone in than pay the registration fee.

 

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10 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I have people coming in to do jobs on the house that I know how to do and exactly how long they should take. 

Why don't I do them myself ? Because legally I can't as despite having the same test gear, the knowledge and  ability as the guy coming in  I would have to be registered and its cheaper to get someone in than pay the registration fee.

 

That's taking the Part P that is! :giggles:?

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

Surely one does not cheat the taxman, one just uses creative methods to create a slightly more level playing field ? :)

 

............Dave

Show me a self employed person that has never claimed something against tax that wasn't 100% for business use and I will show you a liar.

 

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On 06/07/2019 at 10:45, The Welsh Cruiser said:

To answer your question, my insurance company probably wouldn't pay. I tend not to go big on insurance anyway, reflecting my personal attitude to risk. Sometimes things don't work out and you get landed with a hefty bill. That's the way it is, I accept it. 

The trouble is that lots of people say just that, then they gip when it actually costs them money. Not me of course, I sit on the fence ..................... I make it up as I go along :) oo-h did I really say that?

PS "oops sorry about that bump mate, you should be insured comprehensive!" and don't park in my blind spot! A new brake lever is required, not a new bike!

Edited by LadyG
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