Canalside welder?

[bizzard]

What ffolk come in ere ffffor Grranville is up to them. Wwhat they ggo out with is up to us. 

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I agree with the first part of what you say, one should never try to negotiate after the fact. But I don't agree with the second part. I've been offered discounts for cash in the past when I've asked and I don't know whether that means he was cheating the tax man.

 

Yes you do know, but you are playing the innocent because it suits the position you are taking in this. 

 

 

[bizzard]

48 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

To an extent it depends when it is done.

 

I agree no harm in being asked when striking the deal to do the work as it's easy at that point to say no, but I see the red mist when I've done the deal, explained I expect payment by debit or credit card, done the work, written out the bill and presented it to the customer, asked for his card (card terminal in hand) and he says "Oh I was going to pay cash. What discount do I get? I know you blokes always like a bit of cash..."

 

This can be the closest I ever get to punching someone.

 

But to even ask for a "discount for cash" carries the implicit assumption he thinks you are willing to cheat the tax man. How else can a price vary, depending on the method of payment? 

 

Mike you would have an extremely hard time if you were in the motor trade in the east side of London like myself. There would be a lot of punching going on.

[MtB]

Just now, bizzard said:

Mike you would have an extremely hard time if you were in the motor trade in the east side of London like myself. There would be a lot of punching going on.

 

Probably one of the reasons I chose not to mend cars...

 

 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

53 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Maybe Mr Cruiser would be happy for his welder not to have any insurance....

 

 

Who knows, maybe you're right.

[bizzard]

19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Probably one of the reasons I chose not to mend cars...

 

 

The same would apply to whatever you happen to mend when working amongst folk of all nationalities, colours and creeds

[MtB]

1 minute ago, bizzard said:

The same would apply to whatever you happen to mend when working amongst folk of all nationalities, colours and creeds

 

Yes I understand that really. The thing is, the market I choose to work in is for Mr and Mrs Nice Middle Class who want things done properly, professionally, legitimately, not on the cheap and with a full paperwork trail and proper guarantee. I structure my business approach to appeal to this type of person and giving discounts for cash would rather undermine my USP.

 

[Tumshie]

20 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Who knows, maybe you're right.

Just out of curiosity - if you were to go for a welder that was much cheaper, because for example he didn't have any insurance, and then after the job is done, you've paid you £20 quid and sailed off into the distance the weld fails and your beloved motorbike plops into the canal, is your insurance company going to cover any damages the bike sustains or is it going to refuse to pay out and demand that you go after the welder to recover any costs? I suppose if your bike isn't work the extra £40 quid per hour it's a moot point. 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Tumshie

[bizzard]

3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes I understand that really. The thing is, the market I choose to work in is for Mr and Mrs Nice Middle Class who want things done properly, professionally, legitimately, not on the cheap and with a full paperwork trail and proper guarantee. I structure my business approach to appeal to this type of person and giving discounts for cash would rather undermine my USP.

 

Discrimination!!

[The Welsh Cruiser]

1 minute ago, Tumshie said:

Just out of curiosity - if you were to go for a welder that was much cheaper, because for example he didn't have any insurance, and then after the job is done, you've paid you £20 quid and sailed of into the distance the weld fails and your beloved motorbike plops into the canal, is your insurance company going to cover any damages the bike sustains or is it going to refuse to pay out and demand that you go after the welder to recover any coasts? I suppose if your bike isn't work the extra £40 quid per hour it's a moot point. 

 

To answer your question, my insurance company probably wouldn't pay. I tend not to go big on insurance anyway, reflecting my personal attitude to risk. Sometimes things don't work out and you get landed with a hefty bill. That's the way it is, I accept it. 

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

 

I do empathise and agree with you, Mike, Zen and others. I don't expect jobs to be done for 20 quid like the OP and I'm willing to pay the going rate, but I don't think there's anything wrong with politely asking if a better price could be given for cash. No, we don't do that in Tesco's but you're not Tesco's. We don't necessarily know your situation, whether you are VAT registered etc, so there's no harm in asking and you shouldn't take offence. I've seldom had proper vat receipts given to me by self-employed bods - often no receipt at all. That wouldn't happen in Tesco's.

Yes of course I am perhaps being a bit po faced about this.  I know many tradesmen who have two prices and make no secret of it, in fact there is a very well known chandlery that has a similar approach and they won't accept my Scottish notes because they are not going to the bank (or through the books).  I suppose what I was saying is you shouldn't assume that everyone self employed is part of the black economy and you certainly shouldn't try it on with a small trader who isn't VAT registered.  

 

I do wonder though, it's an alien world to me up here in the north of Scotland but when I meet folk from the South, and certainly around London, they tell me even the smallest businesses run on plastic these days - is there still a significant cash economy dahn sahf?

[Clodi]

The old adage 'Buy cheap pay twice' comes to mind & a weld on the tiller is something one does not want to fail. I tried to get my tiller arm off for a similar job & failed miserably. There's a good mobile welder down the Kennet & Avon way but I suspect he's too far away.

[Neil2]

37 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Mike you would have an extremely hard time if you were in the motor trade in the east side of London like myself. There would be a lot of punching going on.

You have restored my faith in human nature.... the last time I bought a car I went in with my usual wad of notes ready for a bit of horse trading and the sales guy practically laughed in my face.  "When was the last time you bought a car sir, - 1963?"   

[bizzard]

A foreign chap left his car with us one day for an MOT, a Vauxhall Astra Club. When I opened the door to drive it in I was hit by the most terrible awful pungiant intense stink of  BO, the interior upholstery was all greasy, I slammed the door to keep the stink contained until the owner showed up who we got to drive it in. He did ask, '' Why you not want my car driving'', I was quite polite about it and told him I had a bad back. It passed the test and he didn't try to barter over the cost.

 I've mended well known gangsters cars, even been out to fix villains cars that have been sabotaged by their enemies, cut hydraulic brake hoses ect. Even been offered guns and ammo on the cheap as payment and many other dodgy offers and managed to avoid punch ups.   You haven't lived Mike. 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by bizzard

[hider]

I know people who are old enough to remember when there was a 2.5% discount for immediate cash payment on most invoices.

Just saying, not condoning.

[dccruiser]

15 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

One thing I've never had a go at on my boat! There's a large bolt on top of what I'll call the boss because I don't know its real name. Is it simply a case of undoing this then lifting the swan neck off/ persuade it off with a hammer? 

Loosening the bolt and using a puller might be a better idea if it doesnt move easily with an hammer and block of wood   

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

Maybe Mr Cruiser would be happy for his welder not to have any insurance....

 

 

Your right Mike my welder doesnt, but i nei

ther use it for commercial purposes or drive it on public roads !  

 

Rick

Edited July 6, 2019 by dccruiser

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

But it is NOT a price for your skill and knowledge alone, is it?

 

It is a price for you being available, all previously prepared and fully tooled up to do the job at all. You paid for the training, passed the exams, bought the van, spent many £thousands on tools and equipment, bought the stock, pay the accountants, advertising, possibly a premises, your tax and probably VAT out of this too. 

 

All of this distills down into £60 an hour. 

 

 

 

And it has to cover things like when you are sick or want to take a holiday, all of which employees tend to take for granted.

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Yes you do know, but you are playing the innocent because it suits the position you are taking in this. 

 

 

 

Not at all. You need to speak for yourself Mike and not for me.

 

I've received cash discounts in cases where I've also received a receipt showing that vat was paid, which completely contradicts your position on this.

 

Anyway, I'll continue to politely ask for cash discounts if that's ok with you, because I know I'm not insinuating anything about the other party. And if it isn't ok with you I don't care! ?

Edited July 6, 2019 by blackrose

[Nut]

im self employed I home board and walk dogs do visits etc  I charge £25 per night and there are no house rules the dog lives as one of the family. I will include food in that price if necessary.

I had a customer who said that I was quite expensive to which I replied , im responsible day and night for your dog I charge £25 per 24 hours so im charging you £1.04 per hour do you know anyone else who earns less? She then said oh ok never looked at it that way and I only deal in cash I don't like banks and I don't give discounts.

 

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I've received cash discounts in cases where I've also received a receipt showing that vat was paid, which completely contradicts your position on this.

 

Not neccessarily. All it proves is that you have a receipt showing VAT. Doesn't prove that the transaction went through the books, or that the VAT was handed over to HMRC.

[Graham Davis]

4 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I think £60 an hour is reasonable for a business with premises, machinery, vans etc. Expensive overheads. I don't think it's a fair sum for someone who works on an ad hoc basis from the confines of their narrowboat. Some try this, but they won't be getting business from me. 

So you don't accept that you need to pay for their expertise, training, qualifications, insurance, overheads, etc?
£60 a hour is NOT expensive!
 

[dmr]

Just had a bit of welding done at a long established and very competent boatyard in Staffordshire, they charged £45 per hour and even rounded down to the nearest hour. However we were already in their dry dock and paying lots of money for epoxy touch up, and so no travel time and they could fit our little welding job in between other jobs.

 

.................Dave

[tree monkey]

33 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

So you don't accept that you need to pay for their expertise, training, qualifications, insurance, overheads, etc?
£60 a hour is NOT expensive!
 

A day rate for 2 climbers with van and chipper can be as low as £300, that's insured and qualified, you lot don't know how lucky you are.

 

Not directed specifically at you Graham 

[ditchcrawler]

I find it strange that people are happy to take their car for a service at a main agent and are happy with the price but then expect someone to mend their boat for next to nothing.

[Richard10002]

25 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it strange that people are happy to take their car for a service at a main agent and are happy with the price

are they? Happy?

 

As soon as the 5 years worth of main dealer services, that I got with my year old car ends, I’ll be taking it to our local Good Garages Scheme garage for its services and anything else.

 

It will be slightly less convenient, as the main dealer collects and returns the car to my home, taking about 3 hours or so, during which I can do some stuff at home and after which I can get on with my life. When I switch, I will probably end up dropping it off the night before, and picking it up at the end of the day.