Canalside welder?

[The Welsh Cruiser]

I need a quick welding job on my boat. Basically it's to move the vertical part of the tiller arm from behind the cruiser deck handrail to in front of it. This involves cutting through the tiller arm where it joins the round bit (not what that's called, boss maybe?) and cutting around 8" off the horizontal bit that the handle fits round. then weld the 8" onto the boss, the rest of the arm to that, job done. 2 cuts through circular 25mm steel and 2 welds.

 

This is to facilitate the storage of my motor bike on the boat, the tiller gets in the way.

 

Does anyone know where might do a little job like this without charging the earth? Somewhere around south Cheshire would be perfect.

 

Thanks.    

[David Mack]

Can you unbolt the swan neck from the rudder stock? If do you could take it off and have the work done at a non canalside welder.

[hider]

If you take it off, and I think you will have to as no one would want to cut and weld 25mm bar in situ, try the local blacksmiths. Here is a list from Google your friend.

https://www.google.com/search?q=blacksmith in cheshire&oq=blacksmith+in+cheshire&aqs=chrome..69i57j33.10299j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&npsic=0&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=53227840,-2418055,13517&tbm=lcl&rldimm=1421730041659849228&ved=2ahUKEwi0kPKQk57jAhVHURUIHZxUC3kQvS4wAnoECAoQJg&rldoc=1&tbs=lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2#rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m2!1d53.467674099999996!2d-1.9266857999999998!2m2!1d53.0096178!2d-2.9725778999999997!3m12!1m3!1d222069.1053824428!2d-2.4496318499999994!3d53.23864595!2m3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i381!2i279!4f13.1;tbs:lrf:!2m1!1e3!3sIAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

 the blacksmith on Nb Emily Brontë is in Cheshire. Had a chat with him at Anderton last Sunday and he’s on his way to Nantwich. 

He’s more than capable of doing what you need. 

He’s on Facebook, so should be easy enough to track down. 

I could PM his mobile number if you want? I’m sure he wouldn’t mind, his details are easliy found on the Internet. 

[The Welsh Cruiser]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Can you unbolt the swan neck from the rudder stock? If do you could take it off and have the work done at a non canalside welder.

One thing I've never had a go at on my boat! There's a large bolt on top of what I'll call the boss because I don't know its real name. Is it simply a case of undoing this then lifting the swan neck off/ persuade it off with a hammer?

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

 the blacksmith on Nb Emily Brontë is in Cheshire. Had a chat with him at Anderton last Sunday and he’s on his way to Nantwich. 

He’s more than capable of doing what you need. 

He’s on Facebook, so should be easy enough to track down. 

I could PM his mobile number if you want? I’m sure he wouldn’t mind, his details are easliy found on the Internet. 

Hi Glen thanks, yes, that would be useful.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

9 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

One thing I've never had a go at on my boat! There's a large bolt on top of what I'll call the boss because I don't know its real name. Is it simply a case of undoing this then lifting the swan neck off/ persuade it off with a hammer?

Hi Glen thanks, yes, that would be useful.

I’ll send PM. 

?

[dmr]

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

 the blacksmith on Nb Emily Brontë is in Cheshire. Had a chat with him at Anderton last Sunday and he’s on his way to Nantwich. 

He’s more than capable of doing what you need. 

He’s on Facebook, so should be easy enough to track down. 

I could PM his mobile number if you want? I’m sure he wouldn’t mind, his details are easliy found on the Internet. 

His is certainly capable but he is likely to make it all arty farty with complicated swirling curves and a candle holder fixed to the top

 

...............Dave

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

6 minutes ago, dmr said:

His is certainly capable but he is likely to make it all arty farty with complicated swirling curves and a candle holder fixed to the top

 

...............Dave

?

I got a bracket from him, to support my head lamp. 

Did a little sketch of a ‘G’ supporting a right angled bracket and he knocked it up no trouble, conplete with swirls. 

I’m at Bugsworth basin tomorrow so will look out for some recent work he’s done on a replica wagon. 

 

 

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, Goliath said:

?

I got a bracket from him, to support my head lamp. 

Did a little sketch of a ‘G’ supporting a right angled bracket and he knocked it up no trouble, conplete with swirls. 

I’m at Bugsworth basin tomorrow so will look out for some recent work he’s done on a replica wagon. 

 

 

Hes a clever boat, he built the pusher tug/forge boat himself.

 

..............Dave

[Arthur Marshall]

Not sure where South Cheshire starts or stops,  but there's an excellent welder at Bollington Wharf on the Macc. 

[zenataomm]

6 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

might do a little job like this without charging the earth?

I learnt years ago from sharing a pint with a group of self employed engineers, welders, painters and sign writers at a rally that the common thing that seems to hack them off and keep you at the bottom of their call back list is the kind of comment above.

It reeks of "I think you're expensive and will rip me off, so before I even talk to you be aware I'm a moaner, and will give you a hard time" 

Treat everyone fairly, ask who they've done work for, seek references,  then ask for a quote and timeframe.  If you're happy with examples of his/her work but not the price then say so face to face.  There may be room for negotiation, or they may explain to you why it costs that much, after all they know their business better than you.

Passive aggressive doesn't grease the relationship between supplier and customer.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

24 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

I learnt years ago from sharing a pint with a group of self employed engineers, welders, painters and sign writers at a rally that the common thing that seems to hack them off and keep you at the bottom of their call back list is the kind of comment above.

It reeks of "I think you're expensive and will rip me off, so before I even talk to you be aware I'm a moaner, and will give you a hard time" 

Treat everyone fairly, ask who they've done work for, seek references,  then ask for a quote and timeframe.  If you're happy with examples of his/her work but not the price then say so face to face.  There may be room for negotiation, or they may explain to you why it costs that much, after all they know their business better than you.

Passive aggressive doesn't grease the relationship between supplier and customer.

Cheers. Suppose I've met too many people, working part time from a boat as and when work comes along, and not bothered if it doesn't, who think 60 quid an hour is fair whereas I'm happy to meet people and help them and the 20 quid comes in handy. 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

I learnt years ago from sharing a pint with a group of self employed engineers, welders, painters and sign writers at a rally that the common thing that seems to hack them off and keep you at the bottom of their call back list is the kind of comment above.

It reeks of "I think you're expensive and will rip me off, so before I even talk to you be aware I'm a moaner, and will give you a hard time" 

 

How very true. 

 

But there is a further dimension to this, too. The customer telling me what sort of a job it is, i.e. "little" is intensely irritating. I'll be the judge of that, thank you. "If you know so much about it and it's so little, then why don't do it yourself?" is what I'm inclined to ask punters who have already decided how small a job is ad how cheap it ought to be. But by now I've decided I don't want to work for them anyway, as they are belittling the work they are asking me to do. 

 

Huh. Prima donna? Moi? 

 

 

[Neil2]

9 hours ago, zenataomm said:

I learnt years ago from sharing a pint with a group of self employed engineers, welders, painters and sign writers at a rally that the common thing that seems to hack them off and keep you at the bottom of their call back list is the kind of comment above.

It reeks of "I think you're expensive and will rip me off, so before I even talk to you be aware I'm a moaner, and will give you a hard time" 

Treat everyone fairly, ask who they've done work for, seek references,  then ask for a quote and timeframe.  If you're happy with examples of his/her work but not the price then say so face to face.  There may be room for negotiation, or they may explain to you why it costs that much, after all they know their business better than you.

Passive aggressive doesn't grease the relationship between supplier and customer.

 

7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

How very true. 

 

But there is a further dimension to this, too. The customer telling me what sort of a job it is, i.e. "little" is intensely irritating. I'll be the judge of that, thank you. "If you know so much about it and it's so little, then why don't do it yourself?" is what I'm inclined to ask punters who have already decided how small a job is ad how cheap it ought to be. But by now I've decided I don't want to work for them anyway, as they are belittling the work they are asking me to do. 

 

Huh. Prima donna? Moi? 

 

 

You are singing my song guys.  I've walked away from more than one job where the customer had the nerve to tell me how long it will take, not even should, take.

 

Then there's the one's who have the brass neck to ask "how much for cash" and I ask them if they do that in Tesco's.

 

The curse of the self employed is that folk are inclined to work out for themselves how much you are making per hour and then compare that with their own remuneration as an employee.  I have no problem with folk asking me to justify prices, usually by the time I've finished they wonder how come it's so cheap.

 

 

 

 

[Keith M]

Most boat yards and individual technician will be charging around £ 60.00 per hour.

 

As an individual I feel this to be a fair price for my skill and knowledge.   

[The Welsh Cruiser]

I think £60 an hour is reasonable for a business with premises, machinery, vans etc. Expensive overheads. I don't think it's a fair sum for someone who works on an ad hoc basis from the confines of their narrowboat. Some try this, but they won't be getting business from me. 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Keith M said:

Most boat yards and individual technician will be charging around £ 60.00 per hour.

 

As an individual I feel this to be a fair price for my skill and knowledge.   

 

 

But it is NOT a price for your skill and knowledge alone, is it?

 

It is a price for you being available, all previously prepared and fully tooled up to do the job at all. You paid for the training, passed the exams, bought the van, spent many £thousands on tools and equipment, bought the stock, pay the accountants, advertising, possibly a premises, your tax and probably VAT out of this too. 

 

All of this distills down into £60 an hour. 

 

 

[blackrose]

16 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

You are singing my song guys.  I've walked away from more than one job where the customer had the nerve to tell me how long it will take, not even should, take.

 

Then there's the one's who have the brass neck to ask "how much for cash" and I ask them if they do that in Tesco's.

 

I do empathise and agree with you, Mike, Zen and others. I don't expect jobs to be done for 20 quid like the OP and I'm willing to pay the going rate, but I don't think there's anything wrong with politely asking if a better price could be given for cash. No, we don't do that in Tesco's but you're not Tesco's. We don't necessarily know your situation, whether you are VAT registered etc, so there's no harm in asking and you shouldn't take offence. I've seldom had proper vat receipts given to me by self-employed bods - often no receipt at all. That wouldn't happen in Tesco's.

Edited July 6, 2019 by blackrose

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I do empathise and agree with you, Mike and Zen, but I don't think there's anything wrong with politely asking if a better price could be given for cash.

 

To an extent it depends when it is done.

 

I agree no harm in being asked when striking the deal to do the work as it's easy at that point to say no, but I see the red mist when I've done the deal, explained I expect payment by debit or credit card, done the work, written out the bill and presented it to the customer, asked for his card (card terminal in hand) and he says "Oh I was going to pay cash. What discount do I get? I know you blokes always like a bit of cash..."

 

This can be the closest I ever get to punching someone.

 

But to even ask for a "discount for cash" carries the implicit assumption he thinks you are willing to cheat the tax man. How else can a price vary, depending on the method of payment? 

 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Mike the Boilerman

[Keith M]

The person who works from his narrow boat could have the same qualifications as using someone from a boat yard

Over heads will be slightly less.

A small example public liability insurance is over £ 1000.00 per year. 

[Tumshie]

9 hours ago, zenataomm said:

"I think you're expensive and will rip me off,

I don't think it suggest that so much as it smacks of someone saying that they don't believe the tradesman's / engineer's time and skills and experience have worth.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Keith M said:

The person who works from his narrow boat could have the same qualifications as using someone from a boat yard

Over heads will be slightly less.

A small example public liability insurance is over £ 1000.00 per year. 

 

 

Maybe Mr Cruiser would be happy for his welder not to have any insurance....

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

22 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

It is a price for you being available, all previously prepared and fully tooled up to do the job at all. You paid for the training, passed the exams, bought the van, spent many £thousands on tools and equipment, bought the stock, pay the accountants, advertising, possibly a premises, your tax and probably VAT out of this too. 

"Oh, you already have all that stuff anyway, so I'll just give you the price of a pint or two to do this simple [three hour] job ..."

 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

"Oh, you already have all that stuff anyway, so I'll just give you the price of a pint or two to do this simple [three hour] job ..."

 

 

And there I think you have the attitude of the OP distilled to perfection!

 

And from what he describes, it will actually will have taken up three hours of the tradesman's time by the time it is finished and paid for. Possibly a great deal more if he wants the 'canal boat welder' to bring the workshop boat to him, rather than the other way around. 

 

 

[blackrose]

52 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

To an extent it depends when it is done.

 

I agree no harm in being asked when striking the deal to do the work as it's easy at that point to say no, but I see the red mist when I've done the deal, explained I expect payment by debit or credit card, done the work, written out the bill and presented it to the customer, asked for his card (card terminal in hand) and he says "Oh I was going to pay cash. What discount do I get? I know you blokes always like a bit of cash..."

 

This can be the closest I ever get to punching someone.

 

But to even ask for a "discount for cash" carries the implicit assumption he thinks you are willing to cheat the tax man. How else can a price vary, depending on the method of payment? 

 

 

I agree with the first part of what you say, one should never try to negotiate after the fact. The flip side of course is that there are plenty of tradespeople who will quote you a price beforehand which then increases after the job is done for various reasons, so it can work both ways.

 

I don't agree with the second part of what you've said. I've been offered discounts for cash in the past when I've asked and I don't know whether that means he was cheating the tax man. It might be that cash was just more convenient. But if he was cheating then surely we were both cheating 

 

At other times my polite request has been met with an equally polite refusal, so I don't think there's really any need for over-sensitivity. Offence is often taken and not given so perhaps there's a need for slightly thicker skins.

Edited July 6, 2019 by blackrose