blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) After reading a recent thread about a broken engine mount I thought it might be a good idea to carry a spare rather than getting stuck somewhere. Do other members carry a spare? It just seems to make sense to have one as backup rather than getting stuck somewhere and having to wait days for delivery or having to go to a distributor to buy one. I thought my mounts were made by Vetus but after looking more closely I'm not so sure. Can anyone tell me what make/model they are and where to get them please? Is Metalast the brand or is that just the metal cover? Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 That one certainly look like a Vetus one, but not on the boat at the moment so can't check. When I last changed the mounts, due to one failing, I kept a couple of the ones I took off as spares and keep them on the boat. As you say, if one sheared whilst you were out it would be useful to change it on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) The brand name is Metalastik. I think the writing on your mount says Cushy 110A, which Googles out to a lot of AVM suppliers. Check the model and you should then be able to buy the OEM product without a Vetus markup. Technically, AVM's are sized by the static load they support, to give the right natural frequency of mount and load, assuming a rigid base. So if you know the weight on any engine foot you should be able to buy a suitable mount from an alternative supplier. N PS. Another look at your pic suggests it could be a Metalastik Cushyfloat mount. There are various sizes of these, so a measure of mounting bolt spacing and size plus the centre bolt Diameter will be needed to identify it. The Trelleborg (owners of metalastik) website has size details for the range. Depending on size they seem to be about £40-50, no doubt plus delivery etc. N Edited July 3, 2019 by BEngo Add PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, BEngo said: The brand name is Metalastik. I think the writing on your mount says Cushy 110A, which Googles out to a lot of AVM suppliers. Check the model and you should then be able to buy the OEM product without a Vetus markup. Technically, AVM's are sized by the static load they support, to give the right natural frequency of mount and load, assuming a rigid base. So if you know the weight on any engine foot you should be able to buy a suitable mount from an alternative supplier. N It actually says Cushyfloat, not 110A. I can't see a number stamped on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, Flyboy said: It actually says Cushyfloat, not 110A. I can't see a number stamped on it. Thanks. I didn't think it was a 110amp model as I'm not getting any extra charge into the batteries. ? I will take some measurements and do some googling. Thanks All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) I went onto this website: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/anti-vibration-solutions/products--and--solutions/marine--and--energy--solutions/cushyfloat--product--range Mine fall into the Cushyfloat Medium category but in terms on dimensions all 4 mounts are the same size. Does that mean it's a different bit of rubber? My Isuzu 55 (4LE1) dry engine weight is 180kg with a max torque of 143 Nm @1800rpm. I'm struggling to work out which mount I need - they certainly don't make this easy do they? Why not just stamp a part number on the mount somewhere it's easy to see to facilitate re-ordering? Also does the mount include the vertical shaft or is that ordered separately? Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, blackrose said: I went onto this website: https://www.trelleborg.com/en/anti-vibration-solutions/products--and--solutions/marine--and--energy--solutions/cushyfloat--product--range Mine fall into the Cushyfloat Medium category but in terms on dimensions all 4 mounts are the same size. Does that mean it's a different bit of rubber? My Isuzu 55 (4LE1) dry engine weight is 180kg with a max torque of 143 Nm @1800rpm. I'm struggling to work out which mount I need - they certainly don't make this easy do they? Why not just stamp a part number on the mount somewhere it's easy to see to facilitate re-ordering? Also does the mount include the vertical shaft or is that ordered separately? You should be able to narrow it down to 3 from their chart by the bolt size G. The variations are governed by the rubber hardness (IRH) https://www.trelleborg.com/anti.../~/.../tiavs_cushyfloat_mounting.pdf Edited July 3, 2019 by Flyboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 No I don't expect your mounts have different rubber bits. I would bet the boat builder (or his supplier) took the 180 Kg of the engine, added the gearbox weight if you are lucky, and divided by four to get the weight on each leg. Whether the weights on each foot are like this or not, it is usually close enough given that the mounts can support a range of loads. AFAIK the vertical bit is separate. Talk to a retailer is your best bet. Have you looked underneath the base for a part number?? That would be the easiest place to put one in a production facility. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, BEngo said: No I don't expect your mounts have different rubber bits. I would bet the boat builder (or his supplier) took the 180 Kg of the engine, added the gearbox weight if you are lucky, and divided by four to get the weight on each leg. Whether the weights on each foot are like this or not, it is usually close enough given that the mounts can support a range of loads. AFAIK the vertical bit is separate. Talk to a retailer is your best bet. Have you looked underneath the base for a part number?? That would be the easiest place to put one in a production facility. N Yes, I've found the number 35 stamped into each flat black foot that sit on the bearers. But I can't see how that's related to the Cushyfloat product range. Mine have 140mm mounting hole spacing and an M16 threaded adjuster stud. Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Brummie Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Dividing the total weight by 4 is not a valid calculation. Given that the gearbox hangs off the back of the engine, the rear mounts will need to support more than the front mounts. If the job has been done properly, you would need to carry 2 spares, one front and the other rear. A discussion with the mount manufacturers, specifying your engine/gearbox combination will ensure you get the right items. This is why I suggested changing the complete set in your previous post. You can then keep a couple of the old mounts as a 'get you home' facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said: Dividing the total weight by 4 is not a valid calculation. Given that the gearbox hangs off the back of the engine, the rear mounts will need to support more than the front mounts. If the job has been done properly, you would need to carry 2 spares, one front and the other rear. A discussion with the mount manufacturers, specifying your engine/gearbox combination will ensure you get the right items. This is why I suggested changing the complete set in your previous post. You can then keep a couple of the old mounts as a 'get you home' facility. As far as I can remember from when I last ordered mounts for my Vetus, all four were the same (K75 rings a bell). I agree that you would expect to have more of the total weight carried by the rear mounts, but perhaps the difference is within the operating range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 49 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said: Dividing the total weight by 4 is not a valid calculation. Given that the gearbox hangs off the back of the engine, the rear mounts will need to support more than the front mounts. If the job has been done properly, you would need to carry 2 spares, one front and the other rear. That is true, though many front-flywheel engines are more loaded at the front, but is not the way of the real boat fitting world, unfortunately. Experience says that the front/back and left/right load differences are either within the operating range of one mount type, or close enough that no-one notices. Misalignment and oil contamination will kill more than misloading in any event. Even with 'perfectly' selected mounts' many boat fitters would somehow manage to get them on the wrong foot! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) I called these people and had a chat. https://www.avmountsonline.co.uk/marine-mounts/marine-engine-mounts?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPHoBRC3ARIsALfx-_IReR8Qud7qeaM2x_iJiC96ww6UQLxvAiW-Qz7M_-0F3xqoXbHzlq0aArPCEALw_wcB They told me there's no point buying a single mount as a spare as if one goes it will likely damage the others too. So they recommended buying 4 but that seems a bit over the top and it's getting too expensive in terms of carrying spares. So I guess if I break an engine mount (or two) then I'll have to get replacements at that time. Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyboy Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, dor said: As far as I can remember from when I last ordered mounts for my Vetus, all four were the same (K75 rings a bell). I agree that you would expect to have more of the total weight carried by the rear mounts, but perhaps the difference is within the operating range. The K75 probably refers to the rubber hardness of 75 IRH as per the chart. https://www.trelleborg.com/anti.../~/.../tiavs_cushyfloat_mounting.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I bought a complete spare LPWS4 engine and gearbox for my NB, so whatever happened a 'quick call home' and my Son could bring whatever was needed (basically anywhere on the canals is only a few hours away) The engine was complete with mounts, but on looking at the mounts, even tho' it was an identical engine, the mounts were very, VERY different, so, I'd suggest matching your existing mounts, rather than buying mounts for "XYZ Engine". I reckon each builders uses different brand / design / sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: I bought a complete spare LPWS4 engine and gearbox for my NB, so whatever happened a 'quick call home' and my Son could bring whatever was needed A complete spare engine & gearbox? Suddenly this has gone from about 50 quid for a spare mount to £200 for 4, to several thousand pounds for a spare engine & gearbox! Perhaps I should just buy a spare boat! Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEngo Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, blackrose said: I called these people and had a chat. https://www.avmountsonline.co.uk/marine-mounts/marine-engine-mounts?gclid=Cj0KCQjwpPHoBRC3ARIsALfx-_IReR8Qud7qeaM2x_iJiC96ww6UQLxvAiW-Qz7M_-0F3xqoXbHzlq0aArPCEALw_wcB They told me there's no point buying a single mount as a spare as if one goes it will likely damage the others too. So they recommended buying 4 but that seems a bit over the top and it's getting too expensive in terms of carrying spares. So I guess if I break an engine mount (or two) then I'll have to get replacements at that time. If one mount fails completely the others may well be damaged, and have a reduced life remaining, but will most probably still support the power train. Having one spare enables you to replace the knackered one and go somewhere to change the rest in your time. OTOH a decent regime of looking at your mounts before you go boating, and periodically while on the move, with a check of alignment now and then will let you spot any developing problemo before it is a stopper. You pays yer money..... If you bought a spare narrowboat you could go more places in that than your present boat. Make sure it has a rigidly mounted engine though or you will have increased the likelihood of an engine mount failure.? N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, blackrose said: Suddenly this has gone from about 50 quid for a spare mount to £200 for 4, to several thousand pounds for a spare engine & gearbox! I'm not suggesting that you (or anyone else) should buy a complete spare engine, but if you look at the costs of 'parts' & potentially labour to fix them , delays for having to order a 'left handed gromlet screw' its 'cheaper' to have all parts available. If you see a bargain then buy it. There have been a number of things that I have bought and had 'buyers remorse', but there are far more things that the next day I think 'why didn't I buy it', or, 'why didn't I just bid a few extra £'s' on that thing on ebay. I was lucky enough to get the LPWS4, with 100A & 75A alternators, wiring harness and instrument panel, additional 'spare pistons', filters for 'years' of fuel, oil and air changes and a fully refurbished 150 gearbox. Sold the boat but still have the spare engine in "the shed" ™ You never know one day someone may say I've broken down and there isn't a 'left handed gromlet screw' in the country - HELP !! Or, I may sell the lot, or Buy another boat to fit around it. Edited July 3, 2019 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuthound Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 2 hours ago, blackrose said: A complete spare engine & gearbox? Suddenly this has gone from about 50 quid for a spare mount to £200 for 4, to several thousand pounds for a spare engine & gearbox! Perhaps I should just buy a spare boat! My first project management job was to install 2 x 1000kVA generator sets and associated switchgear, operating on 1+1 basis. On handover the Ops manager demanded that I provide all manner of spares. I simply pointed out to him he had every conceivable spare for his installation because in effect I had provided a spare generator. As he couldn't produce a counter argument he didn't get any more spares. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) I've painted the threads of my mounts with a dab of hamerite so that nothing vibrates loose and the adjustment can't change unless I change it. But I guess the rubbers compress over time so things will move. I might buy one mount, but on the other hand I keep a car jack in the engine room so I guess in the event of a mount breaking I could always jack up the engine on a thick folded rubber mat and limp home. Edited July 3, 2019 by blackrose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1agos Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 You could join RCR, engine mounts are covered on their replacement parts. I had a front one go and they replaced them both foc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dor Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 24 minutes ago, 1agos said: You could join RCR, engine mounts are covered on their replacement parts. I had a front one go and they replaced them both foc. Foc? Don’t RCR charge a maximum of £50 for a repair, plus you lose your ncb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 I'm not really a RCR man..I like to do things myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Brummie Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 12 hours ago, blackrose said: I'm not really a RCR man..I like to do things myself. I joined RCR 4 years ago, as the option of parts replacement appealed to me, along with the convenience of one phone number in the event of a breakdown. This does not stop me carrying spares within reason, or carrying out my own repairs. I carry a spare alternator, control cable, cooling system hoses, diesel injectors, bilge pump, jubilee clips, Jabsco impeller (raw water cooled), plus fuses and bulbs etc. I also have a spare domestic water pump, tap washers and plumbing connectors. RCR don't cover everything, and it is not compulsory to call them out to each little mishap. Being able to make running repairs saves time and money and is so much more convenient than waiting for an engineer. But when a drive plate or starter motor (mine is a bit special so a spare would not be economic) fails, I don't need to worry about finding someone, or the parts, or the cost between £100 -£1000. Altogether, my running spares probably cost me about £500, but have been built up over time, and by judicious purchases at boat jumbles and rallies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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