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1500 bmc overheating


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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'm sorry you have taken it this way, I have made 14 posts in this thread, (and quite a number in your 'BSSC thread) all of which I consider to be useful / helpful otherwise I would not have made them.

 

I hope you do get it sorted out, but it is no use blaming the 'boat system'.

 

If your require any further help, just ask, but until then, I'll assume that you now know enough to sort out and remove all the rubber debris without further guidance.

Yes i appreciate what you have done.But you have not listened when i have told you repeatedly that the water system was fully working and has been for weeks.I took this boat from aspley to shepley bridge single handed and it ran sweet as a nut.These two took it back up the broads and yet you say it must have been siezed up as it had sat for years.No mate it worked flawless,and you have not read my replies.

It has only just started over heating because this part of the canal system is very low in water,the intake is high in the swim area,i watched Peter stuck in multiple areas with little to no water.This is what is what here.Not the boat.

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4 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

A couple of things spring to mind.

My boat is direct raw water cooled,and I am a regular on th HNC.You have obviously done as members have suggested and if your problem persists,then the cooling water isn't getting to where it's supposed to be.

Any blockage I have had has been where there is a 90 degree joint in the pipe.The favourite is the water pipe from the seacock.

My engine (BMC 1500) has a hose conection on the cylinder head for flushing sediment out of the water jacket (yours won't have this) but it could be that your heat exchanger needs flushing out.

Another possibility is that there is an air leak on the inlet side so degrading the suction of the pump. Perished water filter seal? cross threaded seacock cap? loose pipe conections? Sometimes hard to spot as an air leak does not always allow water out.

 

All cooling systems have their problems. Even skin tank cooling is not trouble free.

My direct raw water cooling system has not caused any problems (touch wood) in the time I have had the boat.

Thanks 

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We'll, Lingy's driven up here today and checked the whole water cooling system, and it works. He's opened up the water pump, found that the new impeller is good, not wrecked coming up those last 11 locks on Tuesday evening, so he just cleaned and reassembled it. Still not found any of the bits that broke off the old impeller (as seen in my earlier photo) despite undoing and checking all the hose connections, so to my mind that's a bit of a worry; where are they now? However, we left it a while, restarted the engine a few minutes ago and now I'm watching it and a nice steady flow of water is coming out, so we're good to go for the tunnel in the morning.

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For what it's worth coming from someone like me whose knowledge of engines is poor, my theory based on all I've observed is this:

We first overheated part way up the HNC, so that was when the impeller broke; otherwise we'd have overheated earlier. The broken bits may have gone on through the system, sometimes impeding the flow of water, and by now they're hopefully either gone through the outlet pipe or lodged in a harmless position where water can pass them. Some of the clips may not have been tight enough; Lingy reckons some air may have been entering this way and making the pump's job harder, but that he's got all the clips nice and tight now. In an ideal world we'd understand everything, but I think it's likely that our cooling is good now and we can get on with the move.

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2 hours ago, Peter X said:

For what it's worth coming from someone like me whose knowledge of engines is poor, my theory based on all I've observed is this:

We first overheated part way up the HNC, so that was when the impeller broke; otherwise we'd have overheated earlier. The broken bits may have gone on through the system, sometimes impeding the flow of water, and by now they're hopefully either gone through the outlet pipe or lodged in a harmless position where water can pass them. Some of the clips may not have been tight enough; Lingy reckons some air may have been entering this way and making the pump's job harder, but that he's got all the clips nice and tight now. In an ideal world we'd understand everything, but I think it's likely that our cooling is good now and we can get on with the move.

I feel for Lingy and his frustration.  Maybe if your going to put yourself out as a boat mover you want to get some knowledge of engines and the mechanical side of things. As you say your engine knowledge is poor which is not the best advert for your boat moving C.V. Your both coming across as not really competent in boat moving after all anyone can steer a boat and open a lock, it's all the other things involved that makes a boat mover and importantly installing confidence in the person who is paying you, something I doubt you both have achieved. Hopefully now Lingy has been back to the boat yet again and sorted it he might get what he's paying for and the boat moved with no more issues.

Edited by PD1964
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On 04/07/2019 at 16:31, PD1964 said:

I feel for Lingy and his frustration.  Maybe if your going to put yourself out as a boat mover you want to get some knowledge of engines and the mechanical side of things. As you say your engine knowledge is poor which is not the best advert for your boat moving C.V. Your both coming across as not really competent in boat moving after all anyone can steer a boat and open a lock, it's all the other things involved that makes a boat mover and importantly installing confidence in the person who is paying you, something I doubt you both have achieved. Hopefully now Lingy has been back to the boat yet again and sorted it he might get what he's paying for and the boat moved with no more issues.

My understanding is that Peter X doesn’t take direct payment for boat moving. He generally assists boat owners in moving their own boat in return for travel expenses, sustenance and the ability to go boating. That’s a reciprocal arrangement that suits both parties specifically because it avoids the costs of a professional boat moving service.

 

In this instance I took it that the other person was a friend of the owner and Peter is assisting him; however I could be wrong.

 

So let’s not get this confused with a fully paid up independent professional boat moving service. At no point has Peter ever pretended that’s what he offers on this forum and I’d be surprised if he is engaged as such here.

 

JP

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1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

My understanding is that Peter X doesn’t take direct payment for boat moving. He generally assists boat owners in moving their own boat in return for travel expenses, sustenance and the ability to go boating. That’s a reciprocal arrangement that suits both parties specifically because it avoids the costs of a professional boat moving service.

 

In this instance I took it that the other person was a friend of the owner and Peter is assisting him; however I could be wrong.

 

So let’s not get this confused with a fully paid up independent professional boat moving service. At no point has Peter ever pretended that’s what he offers on this forum and I’d be surprised if he is engaged as such here.

 

JP

  I don't think Stephen is a friend, maybe someone Lingy met at Dewsbury while his boat was in the area. All I would say is if your going to volunteer a service to move a boat albeit free apart from traveling expenses you need to be at least competent in engine and mechanical stuff or just say your there for a free holiday and if anything goes wrong you won't have a clue how to rectify the problem.  You only need one competent person to move a boat this size as Lingy proved moving the boat to get it docked. 

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1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

  I don't think Stephen is a friend, maybe someone Lingy met at Dewsbury while his boat was in the area. All I would say is if your going to volunteer a service to move a boat albeit free apart from traveling expenses you need to be at least competent in engine and mechanical stuff or just say your there for a free holiday and if anything goes wrong you won't have a clue how to rectify the problem.  You only need one competent person to move a boat this size as Lingy proved moving the boat to get it docked. 

I see from the thread about the actual journey that Lingy was intending to skipper the trip but had to pull out and Stephen is now skipper. I don’t see why someone who volunteers to assist moving a boat with the owner present has to be competent in mechanical matters but obviously it could be a help.

 

I read some implied criticism of Stephen and Peter in some posts either here or on the other relevant thread which in the circumstances I don’t think is justified. If they both thought they were going to assist the owner and ended up on their own on a boat they don’t know (and without any technical documentation?) then fair play to them. There’s no easy route from Dewsbury to Nuneaton in any boat.

 

JP

 

Edited by Captain Pegg
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22 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

There’s no easy route from Dewsbury to Nuneaton in any boat.

 

JP

 

The Trent would of been the easier route. But both steamed to lack the confidence to do that route even though it's been done by many complete novice who have bought similar boats up North to live on in London.

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Lingy and I have got a bit further,but still having problems. We reckon we need coolant, for the Bowman heat exchanger (on a BMC 1800 engine). Can anyone tell us what the right coolant is that we need to buy please?

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And what difference will having coolant (antifreeze) instead of plain water make to your problems do you think?

It may increase the boiling point by a few degrees but it will not sort an overheating engine out.

Just what is the problem you are having? Is it overheating or what?

Have you taken the end caps off the Bowman heat exchanger to remove the rubbish yet?

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2 hours ago, Peter X said:

Lingy and I have got a bit further,but still having problems. We reckon we need coolant, for the Bowman heat exchanger (on a BMC 1800 engine). Can anyone tell us what the right coolant is that we need to buy please?

 

30%    antifreeze mixture, probably blue antifreeze but that will not stop it overheating if its a primary (raw water) circuit problem as Hinder says. That gearbox oil cooler is probably on the suction side of the raw water pump so have you ha dthe end caps off that. It is not unknown for them to block (like the heat exchager) with bits from the raw water.

 

Please exactly what is happening?

 

The raw water pump might have a gland just behind the pulley and it may also run the shaft in the metal body of the pump. IF either are worn then it may not prime because it sucks air or it might need a good burst of revs to get it to prime.

 

Is the alternator belt driving the engine water pump tight enough?

 

IF you are getting plenty of raw water through the engine and out of the boat then its possible that you overheated the thermostat so it vented wax so it opens at too high a temperature. If there is any question about this run without a thermostat as an emergency measure. If that does not work and you are still pumping plenty of raw water I fear it may be getting close to head off time.

 

 

 

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Lingy says it sounds like Tony is talking a lot of sense. We've had the ends off the gearbox heat exchanger and removed some stuff, but only a trickle of water is getting through. There seems to be a blockage in the main heat exchanger; we've had one end off it and cleaned it up but the other end is hard to remove. Planning to try running without a thermostat. Limped down last 20 locks of HNC today stopping often to deal with overheating, we know we had a leak.

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1 hour ago, Peter X said:

Lingy says it sounds like Tony is talking a lot of sense. We've had the ends off the gearbox heat exchanger and removed some stuff, but only a trickle of water is getting through. There seems to be a blockage in the main heat exchanger; we've had one end off it and cleaned it up but the other end is hard to remove. Planning to try running without a thermostat. Limped down last 20 locks of HNC today stopping often to deal with overheating, we know we had a leak.

Finally you tell us the problem, insufficient water flow through the main heat exchanger.

 

Get that end cap off, clean it out.

 

If it is not throwing water out of the cap because it is over pressurising the cooling system or emitting clouds of steam from the exhaust the head gasket is most likely OK.

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7 hours ago, hider said:

Finally you tell us the problem, insufficient water flow through the main heat exchanger.

 

Get that end cap off, clean it out.

 

If it is not throwing water out of the cap because it is over pressurising the cooling system or emitting clouds of steam from the exhaust the head gasket is most likely OK.

Well if my understanding of the OPs posts are correct he has a dry exhaust boat. He talks about water coming from the side. I suppose that might mean the exhaus but he does not say so.

 

If it really is a lack of raw waster flow then removing the stat will do absolutely nothing.

 

In just about all the commercial marinisations I have seen the oil coolers are under suction being between the inlet strainer and the raw water pump so I do not fully understand this:

 

8 hours ago, Peter X said:

Lingy says it sounds like Tony is talking a lot of sense. We've had the ends off the gearbox heat exchanger and removed some stuff, but only a trickle of water is getting through. There seems to be a blockage in the main heat exchanger; we've had one end off it and cleaned it up but the other end is hard to remove. Planning to try running without a thermostat. Limped down last 20 locks of HNC today stopping often to deal with overheating, we know we had a leak.

 

Getting through what?  With the high up strainer you may get a trickle out of the oil coolers but not a pumped flow.

 

Has anyone ensured the rubber O ring seal on that strainer and the seal around the stud that seals the cap are in good condition and actually sealing?

 

Once all this is over and the boat on its home mooring I would advise that the raw water side be re-plumbed so there is just one hose and two joints between the inlet strainer and pump. Then from the pump to the coolers and on to the heat exchanger.  That way you minimise the chances of the pump sucking air and improve reliability. We did that to all the new engines we installed on the hire fleet.

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Sorry, my post last night wasn't very clear. I'm talking about water coming out at the side from the end of the raw water cooling system.

Tony is absolutely right about the water inlet filter; the O seal is a bit perished and the plastic lid is not good, we've known this for days and suspect air leaks in reducing suction of canal water, and Lingy's patched it up by using some red grease stuff to make a better seal and get us to civilization. Now he's off getting a good metal replacement filter which he expects should fix things properly.

That last suggestion of having the pump earlier in the system sounds interesting to me, I'll mention it to Lingy. Thanks.

PS The exhaust (at the back) seems fine, no water and little smoke. Lingy also said today he now thinks the head gasket is OK.

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Uploaded photo twice, sorry. It's the water intake filter, featuring gasket seal, that red stuff. Having trouble finding someone who both has a new filter and is willing to get it to somewhere we can get it. Meanwhile soldiering on south with this one, not getting the good flow we'd like.

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3 minutes ago, Peter X said:

Uploaded photo twice, sorry. It's the water intake filter, featuring gasket seal, that red stuff. Having trouble finding someone who both has a new filter and is willing to get it to somewhere we can get it. Meanwhile soldiering on south with this one, not getting the good flow we'd like.

 

Had you considered taking the filter out of the system ?

 

Connect the inlet hose directly to the outlet hose - do you get any difference in the flow ?

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Try a soft washer of rubber or plastic under that wing nut. It needs to be a tight fit on the thread.

 

If all else fails I would try to get a bit of plywood attached to the strainer mount and then up to the existing strainer mount holes on the bracket. This will lower the strainer to   below the water line and make it harder for it to suck air if that is what the problem is. You will have to shorted the hoses.

 

This has a further advantage in that when you take the basket out of the strainer  any debris that fall through the hole in the bottom get washed out rather than moving to the side and the getting sucked into the system and blocking oil cooler/heat exchanger tubes.

The photo looks odd to me in that what I take to be the sides of the swim seem to have a gap underneath with a hose from the gate valve inlet running underneath that plate. maybe an odd photo angle but I would expect the gate valve to be fitted to a fitting in the bottom of the boat or through the side of the swim. Any info on what is actually down there.

 

If you try Alan's diagnostic idea please do not try to run without the strainer. That way lies more and more blocked heat exchanger/oil cooler cores and possibly damage impellers.

 

 

Can you find a piece of smooth rubber mat or suchlike so you can cut an oversized disk with a small hole in the middle so you have to screw it onto the thread. The put it on the top of the strainer without the cap and fit the cap on top of it to force it down onto the strainer body.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Quick update: we've got a washer on that nut now, and since Lingy's last bit of fettling yesterday lunchtime the cooling's been running like a dream. Good reliable flow of water, temperature never gets to 80, just occasionally when something gets onto the inlet we stop the engine, start it again and on we go. Nuneaton here we come. Thanks everyone for the helpful advice, notably Tony Brooks.

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