bizzard Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 If a boat is layed up for a long period, like during the winter these pump impellers should be removed to preserve them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, bizzard said: If a boat is layed up for a long period, like during the winter these pump impellers should be removed to preserve them. That was discussed in post #8 (but always good to emphasise the point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter X Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 Lingy did clean the inside of the pump carefully before reassembling it. Got through about 8 locks OK but now getting further problems. Water is coming out and temperature OK but for a while it wasn't. Very puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Peter X said: Lingy did clean the inside of the pump carefully before reassembling it. Got through about 8 locks OK but now getting further problems. Water is coming out and temperature OK but for a while it wasn't. Very puzzling. Bits of rubber vane moving thru the system - temporary clogging, move on then clog again. Hopefully they keep moving. If they jam up permanently you could lose all of the cooling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted July 2, 2019 Report Share Posted July 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Peter X said: Lingy did clean the inside of the pump carefully before reassembling it. Got through about 8 locks OK but now getting further problems. Water is coming out and temperature OK but for a while it wasn't. Very puzzling. You know those missing bits of impeller ... thats what can happen if they are inside a hose. They block more or less of the flow depending on their angle in the hose or joint. Another possibility is that you caught some debris on the intake, perhaps a plastic bag. They are very annoying, because when you stop the engine to check the mudbox they fall off the intake and you never find anything. Crossed with Alan, but yeah. I'd be trying to find the impeller bits before entering Standedge ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Peter X said: Lingy did clean the inside of the pump carefully before reassembling it. Got through about 8 locks OK but now getting further problems. Water is coming out and temperature OK but for a while it wasn't. Very puzzling. Not sure what is going on here,yesterday i fixed it all.It all worked fine,today i am told it is not working again,i did pull out the debri and wiped it out thoroughly ,inside looked as good as new,now they are stuck again and i am back 2 hours away. Would over filling the top tank cause over heating? It needs expansion room yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, Lingy said: Would over filling the top tank cause over heating? It needs expansion room yes? It shouldn’t, no. It’ll just spit out any excess. As others have said, it’s likely that bits of the shredded impeller are working their way through the cooling system. Or as simple as a plastic bag temporarily covering the intake. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WotEver said: It shouldn’t, no. It’ll just spit out any excess. As others have said, it’s likely that bits of the shredded impeller are working their way through the cooling system. Or as simple as a plastic bag temporarily covering the intake. Yeah a bit of everything lol My understanding is that if it is over filled it will boil it up as the water will have no room to expand. Any idea of what model this alternator is chaps ? Edited July 3, 2019 by Lingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, Lingy said: My understanding is that if it is over filled it will boil it up as the water will have no room to expand. That’s backwards. As the pressure increases so does the boiling point. The filler cap should have a vent spring to prevent over-pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter X Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 The filler cap does have a little vent hole at the side, comes out there if over filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, Peter X said: The filler cap does have a little vent hole at the side, comes out there if over filled. Cheers Peter. It would be somewhat odd if it didn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lingy said: My understanding is that if it is over filled it will boil it up as the water will have no room to expand. No, that won't cause overheating. It will spit out the excess and make a mess, and some people call this boiling over, but that's the wrong name for it. With raw water cooling on a shallow canal you need to keep an eye on the temperature guage. As soon as it starts getting hot you need to stop and clear the filter(s) and intake. Don't wait till it's actually boiling! On the rivers you would have had plenty of water under the intake, but if you are struggling with water levels on the Hudd you might be pumping silt. I still insist that the symptoms Pete has been describing are typical of impeller vanes stuck in the hoses though, assuming that the intake and filters are clear. Remove the hose from the water pump to the bowman cooler and make sure it doesn't have rubber bits inside it. Poke it through with something blunt or look through it to be totally sure. If it's been allowed to run dry again, check the new impeller, as you might need a new new one! If they are run dry they can fail in minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, WotEver said: Cheers Peter. It would be somewhat odd if it didn’t. If you over fill it,it does has a vent ,but as water expands it will pressurised and expel the water causing over heating. It is not rocket scienc 1 hour ago, WotEver said: That’s backwards. As the pressure increases so does the boiling point. The filler cap should have a vent spring to prevent over-pressure. There is a valve underneath the tank apparently ,The point being water expands,as it expands it will pressurise and expel in a hurry.Not just a trickle. Do not over fill the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said: No, that won't cause overheating. It will spit out the excess and make a mess, and some people call this boiling over, but that's the wrong name for it. With raw water cooling on a shallow canal you need to keep an eye on the temperature guage. As soon as it starts getting hot you need to stop and clear the filter(s) and intake. Don't wait till it's actually boiling! On the rivers you would have had plenty of water under the intake, but if you are struggling with water levels on the Hudd you might be pumping silt. I still insist that the symptoms Pete has been describing are typical of impeller vanes stuck in the hoses though, assuming that the intake and filters are clear. Remove the hose from the water pump to the bowman cooler and make sure it doesn't have rubber bits inside it. Poke it through with something blunt or look through it to be totally sure. If it's been allowed to run dry again, check the new impeller, as you might need a new new one! If they are run dry they can fail in minutes. I am not on the boat it is Stephen and Peter. They boiled it,the boat was steaming,i know about engines as i restore old cars,and now i understand these raw water cooling systems are utter rubbish.,also i would have turned it straight off as any competent person surely would. Another impeller being sourced and alternator. A new boat ??? Note to self,take time off to move my own boat next time.Or sell it and go back to messing with old cars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) A couple of things spring to mind. My boat is direct raw water cooled,and I am a regular on th HNC.You have obviously done as members have suggested and if your problem persists,then the cooling water isn't getting to where it's supposed to be. Any blockage I have had has been where there is a 90 degree joint in the pipe.The favourite is the water pipe from the seacock. My engine (BMC 1500) has a hose conection on the cylinder head for flushing sediment out of the water jacket (yours won't have this) but it could be that your heat exchanger needs flushing out. Another possibility is that there is an air leak on the inlet side so degrading the suction of the pump. Perished water filter seal? cross threaded seacock cap? loose pipe conections? Sometimes hard to spot as an air leak does not always allow water out. All cooling systems have their problems. Even skin tank cooling is not trouble free. My direct raw water cooling system has not caused any problems (touch wood) in the time I have had the boat. Edited July 3, 2019 by Mad Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, Lingy said: If you over fill it,it does has a vent ,but as water expands it will pressurised and expel the water causing over heating. It is not rocket scienc There is a valve underneath the tank apparently ,The point being water expands,as it expands it will pressurise and expel in a hurry.Not just a trickle. Do not over fill the tank. First of all the valve is in the bottom of the cap, not at the bottom of the tank. Secondly Pascal's law says you are probably wrong about the red bit. Water is incompressible so although the pressure will build to the valve opening pressure as soon as the valve opens a little and vents some coolant the pressure will fall or more likely stabilise. In my view the coolant will just dribble out during normal warm up. Where you are correct is when the engine actually boils, then the coolant will spurt out of the vent hole/tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBiscuits Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 23 minutes ago, Lingy said: now i understand these raw water cooling systems are utter rubbish I wouldn't go that far, but there is certainly a good reason most canal boats use skin tanks! Like anything else, if they are used correctly they are fine, but I would be hesitant to go back to raw water cooling for ploughing through the shallow ditches. The flip side of this is that you might have got fewer problems on the Trent route but cooking the engine on the river could have lead to far worse problems for you! I'd say stick with it, but give the whole system a good check when you get the boat back to Nuneaton. @Mad Harold makes good points about checking for air leaks etc, but you said it was working well on the Calder. Strip it and clean it and it should be fine, and you understand how to look after your cooling, so you should be fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 It certainly sounds like a blockage some where.On the Calder although I check inlet and water filter daily,there was no weed in either.I cruised for a week on the C+ Hebble without having to clean the filters. However on the Huddersfield broad and narrow, it was necessary daily,especially the narrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Lingy said: If you over fill it,it does has a vent ,but as water expands it will pressurised and expel the water causing over heating. It is not rocket scienc Absolute rubbish, sorry. All it will expel will be the over-fill. As you state, it’s not rocket science, simply Pascal’s Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PD1964 Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lingy said: I am not on the boat it is Stephen and Peter. They boiled it,the boat was steaming,i know about engines as i restore old cars,and now i understand these raw water cooling systems are utter rubbish.,also i would have turned it straight off as any competent person surely would. Another impeller being sourced and alternator. A new boat ??? Note to self,take time off to move my own boat next time.Or sell it and go back to messing with old cars ? I wish you had went the Trent route, deep water, manned locks and there's Thorne Boat services on route that could of aided in helping with the engine problem, made no sense that way as everyone knows there is issues with low water this time of year. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I don't think Stephen was confident in the Trent route due to little experience off boating in that area.. Have you contacted any local boat services for help? Bronte Boats cover that area, saves you going back and forth, would of thought your Northern boat mover would of had the local contacts to help. Edited July 3, 2019 by PD1964 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, PD1964 said: I wish you had went the Trent route, deep water, manned locks and there's Thorne Boat services on route that could of aided in helping with the engine problem, made no sense that way as everyone knows there is issues with low water this time of year. I know hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I don't think Stephen was confident in the Trent route due to little experience off boating in that area.. Have you contacted any local boat services for help? Bronte Boats cover that area, saves you going back and forth, would of thought your Northern boat mover would of had the local contacts to help. I actually got quoted down the trent and told this mover i prefer that route to get it bk sooner. The trouble is they "Peter and Stephen" both agreed on the longest hardest route :-) Not my problem as the quote was agreed in money not days.If it was in days they would have both been on a bus by now. To the people trying to help thank you very much this is a very aggravating situation with me being 120 miles away and two guys who have almost no mechanical ability.. To the people trying to prove a point,that does not help the situation. Bickering bull is for farcebook thanks. I have now at great expense bought yet another impeller An alternator Many pipe clips,Even gasket sealer .i intend on stripping the complete set of pipes and anything else on this water system before it goes anywhere. Any pointers on what to strip fully appreciated. Edited July 3, 2019 by Lingy Removed hurty BS word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 hours ago, Lingy said: raw water cooling systems are utter rubbish. I disagree. Do not blame the 'system'. It is simply a lack of understanding by both yourself (boat should have been checked and serviced before undertaking such a journey) and by the crew you have employed to bring it back for you. When we bought the 'Cat' back from Croatia (3100 miles) we changed the oil and impellors every 200 hours - you don't want to break down at sea, you cannot just drift into the side and go to the pub. Fresh water cooling sytems need maintaining and checking just as every system on board does. Morning checks before starting engine : Fan belt condition tension Oil level (dipstick) Check raw water filter(s) Tighten shaft greaser Look around engine for leaks. Start engine IMMEDIATELY check water squirting out of exhaust - if non switch off engine. In shallow / weedy water regularly lean over and check water discharge. You can / will destroy an impellor in seconds if it is run dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 Thanks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lingy Posted July 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: I disagree. Do not blame the 'system'. It is simply a lack of understanding by both yourself (boat should have been checked and serviced before undertaking such a journey) and by the crew you have employed to bring it back for you. When we bought the 'Cat' back from Croatia (3100 miles) we changed the oil and impellors every 200 hours - you don't want to break down at sea, you cannot just drift into the side and go to the pub. Fresh water cooling sytems need maintaining and checking just as every system on board does. Morning checks before starting engine : Fan belt condition tension Oil level (dipstick) Check raw water filter(s) Tighten shaft greaser Look around engine for leaks. Start engine IMMEDIATELY check water squirting out of exhaust - if non switch off engine. In shallow / weedy water regularly lean over and check water discharge. You can / will destroy an impellor in seconds if it is run dry. I understand the system 100% now. The patronising condescension in this one is strong thank you.Bit please read the full thread,the water system was working 100% . When i replaced the impeller , the system was pre primed full of water. If Peter sees this he will tell you quite simply that we primed it . Last week i went up and serviced the boat which included Oil change in motor .gearbox oil replaced as could not find neutral prm needs classic motor oil not hydraulic. Derv pump checks re bled as had air in it. Replaced all batteries. checked water water full WATER WORKING BEAUTIFULLY.A good squirt was evident. THESE TWO TOOK IT ALL THE WAY UP THE BROAD CANAL NO OVER HEATING. I have had boat out three times,the water system worked perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted July 3, 2019 Report Share Posted July 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lingy said: The patronising condescension in this one is strong thank you. I'm sorry you have taken it this way, I have made 14 posts in this thread, (and quite a number in your 'BSSC thread) all of which I consider to be useful / helpful otherwise I would not have made them. I hope you do get it sorted out, but it is no use blaming the 'boat system'. If your require any further help, just ask, but until then, I'll assume that you now know enough to sort out and remove all the rubber debris without further guidance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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