Sharpness to Bristol question

[Grassman]

 

I've been told by another boater that some do the trip breasted up with another narrowboat. I've researched the journey on this forum but cannot recall anybody having said they'd done that.

 

Is this sometimes done or were they telling me porkies?

 

If it is an option I think it's a good idea as it should give the boat(s) more stability, share the work of the engines as well as providing back up if one boat breaks down, and halve the cost of the pilot. I've always fancied doing the trip (either direction) but have been a bit sceptical, however this option would make me much more comfortable doing it. 

[Graham Davis]

I would suggest you ask the advice of the Pilot you employ, and see what his views are. 

[Onewheeler]

I'd not breast up in potentially choppy waters. The consequences of the ropes coming adrift could be serious, and at the least you'll get a lot of banging and spray from between the hulls. If assistance is necessary, do it on a long line.

[Grassman]

Thanks both for your replies. I hadn't considered the consequences of ropes coming adrift or the spray from between the hulls!

 

I suspect that breasting up isn't done much, if at all, and that if it was really a better way to do it the pilots would encourage people to do it every time.

[Scholar Gypsy]

I would advise against breasting up, I've seen a pair of full length boats do it on the Thames tideway and there was a lot of strain on the ropes as the two boats roll out of sync.  They had used big squashy fenders, which helped a bit. I suppose one could use long spring lines (from bow of one boat to stern of the other, and vice versa), it's the shortness of the bow-bow and stern-stern lines that is the problem.

Another pair of boats then tried a short line (6 feet) while waiting in West India lock and the pitching of the two boats in the swell ripped the T-stud off! 

Is it the MSC where they require this, sometimes ??

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Is it the MSC where they require this, sometimes ??

I think so. If you want to see what it can get like watch the video Black Country to Black Sea with Nick Someone or the other

[Keeping Up]

1 hour ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I would advise against breasting up, I've seen a pair of full length boats do it on the Thames tideway and there was a lot of strain on the ropes as the two boats roll out of sync.  They had used big squashy fenders, which helped a bit. I suppose one could use long spring lines (from bow of one boat to stern of the other, and vice versa), it's the shortness of the bow-bow and stern-stern lines that is the problem.

Another pair of boats then tried a short line (6 feet) while waiting in West India lock and the pitching of the two boats in the swell ripped the T-stud off! 

Is it the MSC where they require this, sometimes ??

Agreed.

 

I don't believe the MSC require this any more - they didn't when I went along there a few years back.

[ditchcrawler]

I understand that the flotilla that went to Ellesmere from the Weaver all booked the passage individually to avoid that problem.

[haggis]

When we cruised the MSC (in 2002) as part of an IWA trip, we had to breast up (MSC instructions). We breasted our 57 foot boat to Cheshire Cat (about 40 feet) and it didn't present  a problem. We lined up the sterns and agreed at the outset that we would take turns at steering and deciding on speed (whoever was in charge would ask the person on the other boat to adjust their speed) . We had never met the folk on Cheshire Cat before (although they became friends after that trip) but it worked a treat and it gave us much amusement watching what was happening on other boats where the two skippers were doing different things and as a result the boats weren't progressing smoothly. One I recall was where the male skipper of one boat took exception to a female being on the helm of the other boat and the boats almost went round in a circle as the skippers disagreed. The two couples had been friends before the trip but I don't think the friendship survived. A wonderful example of male chauvenism.

We were on a shared boat and Cheshire cat was hired at that time but neither sharers or hirers are now allowed on the MSC. 

haggis

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think so. If you want to see what it can get like watch the video Black Country to Black Sea with Nick Someone or the other

 

Nick Sanders, and if I recall correctly he had to cut his butty loose somewhere and it sank. He had to cut it loose before both boats sank. He recovered it and completed his journey.

Edited June 27, 2019 by cuthound

[ditchcrawler]

6 hours ago, cuthound said:

 

Nick Sanders, and if I recall correctly he had to cut his butty loose somewhere and it sank. He had to cut it loose before both boats sank. He recovered it and completed his journey.

Just approaching a lock if I remember right.

[cuthound]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Just approaching a lock if I remember right.

 

Yes I think you do remember right (or we are both remembering wrong ?).

 

[Murflynn]

I cannot imagine anything less seamanlike than tying 2 boats together side by side in order to make a passage in the open sea.  (When you make the passage the Severn Estuary will be, more likely than not, like the open sea).

Edited June 27, 2019 by Murflynn

[TheBiscuits]

45 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

I cannot imagine anything less seamanlike than tying 2 boats together side by side in order to make a passage in the open sea.  (When you make the passage the Severn Estuary will be, more likely than not, like the open sea).

I'll just leave this here ... 

 

[blackrose]

On 26/06/2019 at 11:07, Grassman said:

 

I've been told by another boater that some do the trip breasted up with another narrowboat. I've researched the journey on this forum but cannot recall anybody having said they'd done that.

 

Is this sometimes done or were they telling me porkies?

 

If it is an option I think it's a good idea as it should give the boat(s) more stability, share the work of the engines as well as providing back up if one boat breaks down, and halve the cost of the pilot. I've always fancied doing the trip (either direction) but have been a bit sceptical, however this option would make me much more comfortable doing it. 

 

Why would you want to try to force additional stability? A boat (even a narrowboat) is meant to pitch and roll in waves. If you restrict it from doing that it might make those in board feel more comfortable but it's not helping the boat's handling.

 

The Gloucester Pilots will let you know if the conditions are suitable for a crossing. If your boat isn't capable of taking a wave then don't go out there, but don't try to prevent the boat from being a boat. Wave forces on a boat's hull have to go somewhere. If you try to induce stability by bresting up to another boat you're just transferring the stresses to the cleats and ropes and if a cleat snaps off who knows what sort of situation that might lead to.

35 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'll just leave this here ... 

 

 

It's an amusing thought, but a pair of breasted up narrowboats are not going to behave like a cataman. Both hulls on a cat will always be on the same plane whatever the boat's angle to the water. That's not necessarily the case with two hulls lashed together. One may be up and the other down because each is trying to do its own thing.

Edited June 27, 2019 by blackrose

[Grassman]

 

Thanks for the additional replies. I was convinced it was a bad idea after the first to answers and now I'm even more so  .

 

Whoever told me that is was quite a common practice had obviously got it wrong. They'd probably heard it from somebody who'd heard it from somebody else etc etc.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'll just leave this here ... 

 

 

As it happens each of our hulls is just over 6 foot 'beam' so it is, in effect, two NB's rigidly lashed together - but strangely enough is strong enough to be rated RCD category A

 

Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.

 

 

 

If you only have one-hull you only have half-a-boat !!!

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As it happens each of our hulls is just over 6 foot 'beam' so it is, in effect, two NB's rigidly lashed together - but strangely enough is strong enough to be rated RCD category A

 

Category A – Ocean: covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.

 

 

 

If you only have one-hull you only have half-a-boat !!!

 

 

Some might say you only have two thirds!

[Tim Lewis]

21 hours ago, haggis said:

When we cruised the MSC (in 2002) as part of an IWA trip, we had to breast up (MSC instructions). We breasted our 57 foot boat to Cheshire Cat (about 40 feet) and it didn't present  a problem. We lined up the sterns and agreed at the outset that we would take turns at steering and deciding on speed (whoever was in charge would ask the person on the other boat to adjust their speed) . We had never met the folk on Cheshire Cat before (although they became friends after that trip) but it worked a treat and it gave us much amusement watching what was happening on other boats where the two skippers were doing different things and as a result the boats weren't progressing smoothly. One I recall was where the male skipper of one boat took exception to a female being on the helm of the other boat and the boats almost went round in a circle as the skippers disagreed. The two couples had been friends before the trip but I don't think the friendship survived. A wonderful example of male chauvenism.

We were on a shared boat and Cheshire cat was hired at that time but neither sharers or hirers are now allowed on the MSC. 

haggis

We did the IWA trip after the Castlefield National Rally in 1988 and the only boat that would breast up with us was President! This was great until President had to shut down it's engine as we passed an oil refinery which meant that Fulbourne had to do all the work ?

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by Tim Lewis

[WotEver]

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Some might say you only have two thirds!

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, WotEver said:

Slow down! 

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Slow down! 

Its a Black  BMW what do you expect !

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its a Black  BMW what do you expect !

Is he turning right, isn’t he turning right... 

[tree monkey]

On 28/06/2019 at 10:12, WotEver said:

I think, at least I am fairly sure I would like to try that

[WotEver]

14 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I think, at least I am fairly sure I would like to try that

I’m unsure if it’s a boat or a low flying aircraft.