Buying a boat- survey recommendations? general tips?

[h2O_colors]

Hello all, 
After a couple months of drooling over narrowboat ads (and 6 years of wanting to live aboard - the right opportunity just never presented itself), I finally went and looked at a decent handful within my student budget.

(I am a German-American new PhD student in the UK). I found one that I liked and have been in touch with the owner, needs about the amount of work on the interior I was hoping to do - but, the credit union is asking for a valuation and I would like a full survey as well with possibility to get a boat safety certificate as part of the arrangement (it's expiring). Any recommendations on facilities between Oxford and Birmingham (boat is located near Oxford, I will be taking her to Birmingham - preferably with help transporting if I can find a good quote as I am not confident with canals yet - hoping to learn!) that can conduct a full survey and preferably also do any needed repairs based on the findings? Budget options are great, but I would lean towards having a thorough examiner first.

(Boat is 39ft, Springer v-hull from the 70s to get more specific advice. I would send more details but don't want someone else snagging her first!)

I want to contact a couple surveyors for quotes and am looking for suggestions, I have a list from the Tillergraph but am looking for general advice as I know nothing of the listed names! 

 

Also looking at doing some minor updates before living aboard such as replacing the windows (and possibly installing 2 portholes, the boat has room for a few more windows and like many I really enjoy the look of them), so would be excellent if the same facility could assist with that. 

Any other suggestions for me for the boat buying process especially in these stages to help me on my way? I have a ton of questions of course and would particularly like some advice from folks in the Midlands, experiences with narrowboat ownership, etc. My only former experience has been summer sailing, but luckily I tend to really enjoy confined spaces.

My research deals with microplastics in rivers so of course boats are tied in as an added interest. I have been lurking around reading posts here for a while now.

Thanks for your input!

Edited June 24, 2019 by h2O_colors

[ditchcrawler]

Get it surveyed before you part with any money not after.

[h2O_colors]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Get it surveyed before you part with any money not after.

Do you typically pay the deposit before or after the survey is conducted? Where it is it still would have to be transported for a survey.

[mrsmelly]

There are plenty of places within a days cruise of Oxford to take the boat out for a survey. Does it have a working engine?

[MtB]

Welcome to the forum.

 

To answer one of your questions I'd say a 39ft Springer in tip top condition with an A1 survey is worth about £20k. Work downwards from there if there is stuff wrong with it. 

 

 

 

[WotEver]

On 24/06/2019 at 19:08, Mike the Boilerman said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

To answer one of your questions I'd say a 39ft Springer in tip top condition with an A1 survey is worth about £20k. Work downwards from there if there is stuff wrong with it...

... including any interior fittings that are

missing/unserviceable/unfinished

[PD1964]

Don't listen to the young kids on Facebook, who have bought similar aged boats, have had them surveyed then overplated and now think they have a real bargain and are experienced boaters.  Find someone who has had boats for a few years and if you can are experienced with buying and selling them, take them to look at it, not someone who has the same aged boat that has had I'd for a few months. I have seen young girls like yourself get ripped off by buying these old boats that are falling to bits just because they have listened to similar aged people who are clueless and inexperienced in the real world of boating, especially around that area. If anyone mentions it needs a little over plating and it will be sound, walk away and look elsewhere.

  Remember you are buying a 1970's boat and no matter how many £1000's you spend on it it's still a 1970's boat. Think how much money you will need to spend doing it up as it will put virtually no value on the boat as boats of that age have a ceiling as MTB has mentioned. 

  Would you be better off putting the money you'll spend on renovation towards a newer boat?

Edited June 26, 2019 by PD1964

[Bee]

What PD1964 says is pretty sensible. You should be able to put your trust in a surveyor but as with all things they vary. You need to emphasise that you need to be sure of the hull condition. Overplating is a contentious issue. The fact is that the older the boat the more likely it is to need or to have had some overplating and the newer the boat the more expensive its likely to be. If I were you I would engage in conversation with as many boat owners as you can to find out about the real cost of owning a boat and everything about boats, rust, welding etc, At least half of what you are told will be wrong! If it is only you living on the boat you only need a little boat which brings the cost down, the little 'Wilderness' boats will serve well but they are awfully scarce. Microplastics in Rivers? Did you go to the Greenpeace plastics in rivers thing last week in the Houses of Parliament? it was good. Good luck with boats anyway!

[Tumshie]

Deleted - spam removed. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Tumshie

[Neil2]

On 24/06/2019 at 18:59, h2O_colors said:

Do you typically pay the deposit before or after the survey is conducted? Where it is it still would have to be transported for a survey.

Be careful with deposits, especially if this boat is being sold through a broker.  It's common in the narrowboat world to view a deposit as a "down payment", don't fall into this trap.  Typically brokers will not refund any deposit if you back out of the sale post survey unless the boat really is a basket case.  If it's a private sale the best way to proceed is by offering a non-refundable nominal sum which compensates the seller should you back out of the sale and they have to re-advertise.    

 

FWIW I disagree with MTB's valuation.  A 1970's Springer will almost certainly have been overplated, and probably a while ago.  That makes it a real risk and I wouldn't pay anywhere near £20k even if a surveyor gave it the thumbs up.  If it's an all original Springer in good condition that is a rare beast indeed and hard to put a price on these days but most of the really good Springers are one owner boats and never come on the market.

 

Please be careful, the bottom end of the (steel) narrowboat market is dangerous for the inexperienced and don't be persuaded that engaging a surveyor is a guarantee something won't go horribly wrong.   But if you want a recommendation then Steve Hand 01332 919 008 or 07908 885 034 is one of the best in my opinion and a very approachable guy as well. 

[MtB]

20 hours ago, Neil2 said:

FWIW I disagree with MTB's valuation.  A 1970's Springer will almost certainly have been overplated, and probably a while ago.  That makes it a real risk and I wouldn't pay anywhere near £20k even if a surveyor gave it the thumbs up.  If it's an all original Springer in good condition that is a rare beast indeed and hard to put a price on these days but most of the really good Springers are one owner boats and never come on the market.

 

What you would pay for a 1970s Springer is an irrelevance. I too would not pay anything like that much.

 

But when estimating the value of a boat, it is what "the market" will pay that counts. Braunston Marina had a tiny and very well presented Springer on sale last summer for £19k. It disappeared pretty quickly (sold presumably) and was not the first small Springer they've marketed at that sort of money.

 

 

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

What you would pay for a 1970s Springer is an irrelevance. I too would not pay anything like that much.

 

But when estimating the value of a boat, it is what "the market" will pay that counts. Braunston Marina had a tiny and very well presented Springer on sale last summer for £19k. It disappeared pretty quickly (sold presumably) and was not the first small Springer they've marketed at that sort of money.

 

 

That's a heck of an assumption with a Springer...

 

But, until you can provide a like for like comparison I stand by my assertion.  Your Braunston Springer might just have been one of those rare examples of an original boat and TBH I would consider buying one myself if I ever come across one, but the chances are the typical Springer will have had minimal maintenance in the few years prior to sale and will almost certainly have had some overplating which puts it right at the bottom of the market.  I personally would rather have a decent grp boat for the money than a worn out Springer.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

It disappeared pretty quickly (sold presumably)

 

How deep is Braunston Marina?

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

How deep is Braunston Marina?

Dredged last year, they are still drying the tea bags for recycling