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Nightwatch

Skin Tank had emptied itself.

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3 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks for all the offers of support and suggestions.

The 'offshore' way of doing it would be to squash a blanket / duvet / piece of rubber matting against the holes, hold in place with a plank of wood, cut to size, and the plank then wedged in place by 'props' against the engine mounts (or other suitable 'hard, fixed point'

 

Example to explain :

 

Image result for temporary fixing of a leak in boat

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If you do use a putty or K weld stuff the n please run without the pressure cap on or just clicked to the first "vent" position. Downstream on a river or on a canal should not cause any problems unless your skin tank is undersized but if it were you would have noticed hot running a long time ago.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If you do use a putty or K weld stuff the n please run without the pressure cap on or just clicked to the first "vent" position. Downstream on a river or on a canal should not cause any problems unless your skin tank is undersized but if it were you would have noticed hot running a long time ago.

Trying to find out where I can some of this stuff. Good tip about the filler cap. Been on rivers quite a bit in the past with no temperature issues. 

 

All very frustrating. But fixable. 

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Just now, Nightwatch said:

Trying to find out where I can some of this stuff. Good tip about the filler cap. Been on rivers quite a bit in the past with no temperature issues. 

 

All very frustrating. But fixable. 

Just be aware that you are more likely to boil the coolant with plain water and non pressurised. 

 

You will need to keep an eye on it, but I'm sure you would be doing so anyway!

 

You could try double bodging with an external epoxy putty and radweld internally to get you where you want to be.

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41 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Trying to find out where I can some of this stuff. Good tip about the filler cap. Been on rivers quite a bit in the past with no temperature issues. 

 

All very frustrating. But fixable. 

Pretty certain that the Euro Car Parts chain sell K Seal.

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2 minutes ago, catweasel said:

Pretty certain that the Euro Car Parts chain sell K Seal.

Thank you. 

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I tried 2 doses of k-seal to try to stop a water leak from one of my 2L2 heads. It had been very slowly seeping since 2012, at first only visible in bright sunshine as steam coming from the paint. K-seal didnt fix it. I thought it was one of the famed porous heads of a saltwater cooled engine.

I got brave last year and took a grinder to the head to find out whether it was terminal as the rust continued to grow and paint to disappear. It transpired there was a hairline crack on the head...previously disguised by a Braunston based Gardner expert... fill and paint job.

Local garage donated some advanced metal weld, an epoxy system that can be ground flat and painted afterwards. I used a grinder to run a trench down the crack, used the epoxy over the surrounding area along with working it into the trench. Smoothed off a couple of days later and then painted up. 

12 months on, no water leak and zero loss of coolant.

 

I believe the K-seal didnt work as the slow revving engine never gets hot enough.

Edited by matty40s

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3 hours ago, catweasel said:

I've heard good things about K Seal: https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/products/k-seal-k-seal-automotive-car-head-gasket-coolant-leak-repair-one-stop-multi-purpose-236ml.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6cHoBRDdARIsADiTTzZ3uNcYybOrzwKF7HqEeGSKZYqpiqeFQdgwa4EZFs3jR2Jm1ld6JKsaApXJEALw_wcB

Available at many motor factors I believe.
From my own experience with a coolant leak, I had no luck with trying to seal from the outside, owing to the pressure involved.

I can vouch for K seal, it does exactly what is says by the makers.  Much better than Radweld. It contains micro ceramic beads and does not clog up the engine. Not cheap but it does work.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-Seal-Permanent-Coolant-Leak-Repair-for-Cooling-Systems-Head-Gaskets-Radiators/163715442080?epid=15031984468&hash=item261e3365a0:g:j6MAAOSwhmJc8nQl

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Hello, Les is a good choice. However if you get to him and he is too busy, you then need to do the arm again. It may be better to continue on to North Kilworth and let Ben see what can be done. It's not out of your way.

Garry.

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59 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I can vouch for K seal, it does exactly what is says by the makers.  Much better than Radweld. It contains micro ceramic beads and does not clog up the engine. Not cheap but it does work.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-Seal-Permanent-Coolant-Leak-Repair-for-Cooling-Systems-Head-Gaskets-Radiators/163715442080?epid=15031984468&hash=item261e3365a0:g:j6MAAOSwhmJc8nQl

I have looked but can't locate quantities required. Do you know? I'm guessing like other engines and skintanks take approximately 30 litres of water. Will half a litre of K Seal do the trick? Can you put in too much?too less etc? Will I have to flush out the whole system when a proper repair is done?

Ebay prices are very competitive. To purchase from Euro Car Parts, in Leicester, a bus and a walk away, is about three or four times more. If it works that's fine. The holes I'm trying to 'block' are bigger than a pin, certainly smaller than a knitting needle. Four or five in number quite close together. 

13 minutes ago, mad dog n' Englishman said:

Hello, Les is a good choice. However if you get to him and he is too busy, you then need to do the arm again. It may be better to continue on to North Kilworth and let Ben see what can be done. It's not out of your way.

Garry.

Sorry, Ben? All the kafuffle of today has boggled my mind.

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27 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The holes I'm trying to 'block' are bigger than a pin, certainly smaller than a knitting needle. Four or five in number quite close together

I'd try the metal epoxy putty on those size holes.

 

Force enough into the skin tank that it mushrooms on the inner side rather than just stick it to the outside, but not so much you risk blocking the skin tank hoses.

 

You could also try sikaflexing a temporary plate over it as well, as I wouldn't expect radweld or kseal to work on several quarter inch holes.

 

 

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If the holes are bigger than pin holes you could try a self tapper smeared with epoxy to block the hole.  BUT if the surrounding metal is very thin from corrosion it may crumble making the hole bigger, so a bit of prodding with a screw driver may be in order to asses the condition.

Edited by Chewbacka

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14 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

If the holes are bigger than pin holes you could try a self tapper smeared with epoxy to block the hole.  BUT if the surrounding metal is very thin from corrosion it may crumble making the hole bigger, so a bit of prodding with a screw driver may be in order to asses the condition.

From what I could make out this afternoon, the area is quite fragile, so I will pass on the prodding. I think, time permitting, I would prefer a welded on plate or similar to see it through till a better more permanant job can be done. 

 

A little bit of diversity. I was ships company on a warship when a diver went down to inspect the hull. He prodded and poked his way around. We all waited for the results. The hull was rotten, and being the test bed of gas turbine engines in RN ships had taken its toll. This meant we weren't allowed to sea in certain sea conditions and the poor old girl had to be paid off and scrapped. 

Edited by Nightwatch

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27 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'd try the metal epoxy putty on those size holes.

 

Force enough into the skin tank that it mushrooms on the inner side rather than just stick it to the outside, but not so much you risk blocking the skin tank hoses.

 

You could also try sikaflexing a temporary plate over it as well, as I wouldn't expect radweld or kseal to work on several quarter inch holes.

 

 

Going to see how dry its got overnight before any decisions are made. We have absorbent sheets in place. 

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26 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Going to see how dry its got overnight before any decisions are made. We have absorbent sheets in place. 

If you have large holes you need get a proper plated repair.

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3 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

If you have large holes you need get a proper plated repair.

Fully agree, but he wants to get the boat to the yard, so a bodge job that lasts a week will do.

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7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The 'offshore' way of doing it would be to squash a blanket / duvet / piece of rubber matting against the holes, hold in place with a plank of wood, cut to size, and the plank then wedged in place by 'props' against the engine mounts (or other suitable 'hard, fixed point'

 

Example to explain :

 

Image result for temporary fixing of a leak in boat

I've done this sort of temporary repair on someone's home made steel dinghy which has rusted through. But I used a load of sikaflex on a peice of carpet backed by a peice of ply wedged against the hole with a stick.

 

In this case the area sounds a bit flimsy.  It would be interesting to know whether it's corroded from the inside through lack of antifreeze/inhibitor or from the outside due to bilge water. 

 

This wouldn't work on the OP's tank but I've also made a permanent repair to a couple of pinholes in a skin tank where the bleed valve was welded in. I'd had the tank pre-fabricated and the welder had difficulty getting behind the valve upstand. It was just done at a fabrication yard on the river, not a boatyard so wasn't pressure tested and I found the holes when I filled it up and ran the engine. I used JB Weld for the repair but the tank was emptied first and the area was dried and abraded. They were just tiny pinholes but without doing that sort of prep an external repair with any epoxy is never going to work.

 

 

Edited by blackrose

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9 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

I'd try the metal epoxy putty on those size holes.

 

Force enough into the skin tank that it mushrooms on the inner side rather than just stick it to the outside, but not so much you risk blocking the skin tank hoses.

 

You could also try sikaflexing a temporary plate over it as well, as I wouldn't expect radweld or kseal to work on several quarter inch holes.

 

 

I agree. Do both.

Epoxy putty should get deep enough into the holes to get a key. Let it cure for 12 hours....and the ambient temp is warm enough for it to cure.....and then stick a plate over the top with sikaflex. The bigger the plate, the bigger the area of sikaflex. Leave to cure for 12 hours.

Try and clean the steel as best you can and get rid of as much oil as possible. 

If you can't find underwater epoxy putty then just araldite would do if you are putting a patch of steel/ sikaflex over the top. 

Reducing the pressure in the skin tank as Tony suggests will help.

 

Can you take a photo of the holes so we can get an idea of how to do it with epoxy/sikaflex?

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If the plate can be wedged in place that might work. If it isn't it might just fall off unless you can get the area clean and dry and oil free. Key it with a wire brush, sandpaper, etc and wipe it over with white spirit first to clean it, and the plate too. I use Stixall from Toolstation for lots of jobs, very similar to sikaflex.

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11 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

I have looked but can't locate quantities required. Do you know? I'm guessing like other engines and skintanks take approximately 30 litres of water. Will half a litre of K Seal do the trick? Can you put in too much?too less etc? Will I have to flush out the whole system when a proper repair is done?

Ebay prices are very competitive. To purchase from Euro Car Parts, in Leicester, a bus and a walk away, is about three or four times more. If it works that's fine. The holes I'm trying to 'block' are bigger than a pin, certainly smaller than a knitting needle. Four or five in number quite close together. 

Sorry, Ben? All the kafuffle of today has boggled my mind.

 

When I changed the coolant on my 60 foot boat with a Beta 43 engine, I pumped the old coolant into containers, so i could measure the quantity. Turned out to be 45 litres.

 

I did the same when changing the contents of the Webasto central heating system, (1 full size double rad, 1 full size single rad, 1 half height double rad and a towel rail) and that took 25 litres.

Edited by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

If the plate can be wedged in place that might work. If it isn't it might just fall off unless you can get the area clean and dry and oil free. Key it with a wire brush, sandpaper, etc and wipe it over with white spirit first to clean it, and the plate too. I use Stixall from Toolstation for lots of jobs, very similar to sikaflex.

I agree it will be better if wedged in place but it should work even if not as long as the skin tank is not under 'normal' pressure. A sikaflexed plate if big enough should hold the 'head' of water even at temperature.

It would be good to see the holes so you can work out how to do it and how big  a plate could be put on. The plate would be for mechanical strength only so you could get away with a piece of wood provided there is epoxy in the holes and a thick section of sikaflex applied to stick the wood down.

Apply pressure to the plate while it is curing but maybe not needed after that.

 

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Unlikely to get photo as it's unaccessable to me. 

 

Just found out that Welford has one bus a day into Market Harborough, missed today's one. 

 

 

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