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Skin Tank had emptied itself.


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17 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I tried that once. Didn't make a blind bit of difference. Once the calorifier is hot it's hot and then you can't get rid of the hot water quick enough.

Yes it will, you obviously didn't run enough hot water off. Taking hot water out of the system and replacing it with cold must reduce the temperature. Simple physics.

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6 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

Thanks for that Alan. That product looks the dogs proverbials. My one and only concern would be running without the pressure cap in place. What I have to do, I think, is get off the existing mastic stuff, no matter what it's called, and reapply some more liquid metal. Reapply mastic if needs be. But firstly get the area dry. To achieve that I have to use the wet vac in suck and blow mode. This will drain the batteries in no time. So I'm about to pop across to the marina to see if I can get a berth for a couple of days with power. They may even stock Stay Afloat. Lots of fibre boats here.  I don't want to start digging too much it may make matters worse. 

The joys of boating. We only came along the river to get a loo pumpout. 

Two suggestions 1) run WITHOUT apressure cap. I know it's a totally differeñt engine but my trusty BMC 1 .8 will run withot a cap from now to doomsday. Just keep an eye on the temp & oil pressure. 2) That tape used to seal seal greenhouse windows. It was mentioned in an earlier post, Sil.?....something? It really sticks like ...... to an army blanket. I seales a rotten window frame in my shed 2 years ago and it's still watertight and sou d.

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5 minutes ago, Slim said:

Two suggestions 1) run WITHOUT apressure cap. I know it's a totally differeñt engine but my trusty BMC 1 .8 will run withot a cap from now to doomsday. Just keep an eye on the temp & oil pressure. 2) That tape used to seal seal greenhouse windows. It was mentioned in an earlier post, Sil.?....something? It really sticks like ...... to an army blanket. I seales a rotten window frame in my shed 2 years ago and it's still watertight and sou d.

Don't seem able to edit previous post. Þhe tape is Sylglass and see post 51. Exactly the same as my suggestion. 

Sorry about spelling etc, on phone

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On 24/06/2019 at 17:49, Chewbacka said:

The problem with putty and filler etc is they are applied on the outside of the tank.  When the engine is hot there is some pressure in the coolant system and this is trying to push the filler etc off the tank.  With rad weld and internal sealing materials the coolant pressure is pushing the stuff into the hole there by blocking it up more.  So if you do go for epoxy or filler etc, then make sure the surface is absolutely clean especially oil/grease free or it will blow off.

To add. Having tried a couple products, I am at the stage to refill the coolant. I have header tank. (a.  A filler on to if the engine (b) and a removable nut on top of the skin tank. (C) Any suggestions, to avoid potential airlock, for the procedure. 

To fill via the header tank and water cap on top of the engine is very slow and tedious. 

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36 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

To add. Having tried a couple products, I am at the stage to refill the coolant. I have header tank. (a.  A filler on to if the engine (b) and a removable nut on top of the skin tank. (C) Any suggestions, to avoid potential airlock, for the procedure. 

To fill via the header tank and water cap on top of the engine is very slow and tedious. 

I'd remove plug on skin tank and remove filler cap on engine. Pour coolant into header tank very very slowly, this should emit air easier than filling fast. When water pours from the skin tank replace plug and then engine cap when it pours from there.

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I think I would remove the nut from the top of the skin tank, and initially fill via the cap on top of the engine. Once either of these overflows, I would replace the cap/nut and continue filling via header tank, once it has overflowed at the cap on top of the engine.

 

Having said that, given where you are at, I think I would live with slow and tedious if necessary :) 

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Agree with the above, i fill until i get a fountain coming out the bolt hole in the skin tank then replace the bolt then carry on filling until the header tank is full ... on mine i also have a bleed for the calorifier circuit, on some engines there is also a bleed on the side of the engine block towards the top.

Rick 

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All topped up. Ran the engine on idle, with a couple of blips, tepreture guage climbed up to 80 degrees after a time. Then climbed some more. Turn off the engine, there were a few burps up through the header. Flashed up again. Went up gradually to 90 degrees. Turned off again. A couple of burps. Repeated four or five times. There's movement in the header tank, but still getting really hot. Turned  Off for the night. Pressure cap off. Hopefully it'll burp away to its hearts content overnight. 

 

We used Evo-stick hard and fast putty. Didn't work. For us. I can see it's good stuff. 

 

This time we have used Two part Plastic Padding Leak Fix. Backed up by K Seal additive. Seems to be working. Fingers crossed. 

 

I hope i havent bu**ered the engine up with the K Seal. 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

All topped up. Ran the engine on idle, with a couple of blips, tepreture guage climbed up to 80 degrees after a time. Then climbed some more. Turn off the engine, there were a few burps up through the header. Flashed up again. Went up gradually to 90 degrees. Turned off again. A couple of burps. Repeated four or five times. There's movement in the header tank, but still getting really hot. Turned  Off for the night. Pressure cap off. Hopefully it'll burp away to its hearts content overnight. 

 

We used Evo-stick hard and fast putty. Didn't work. For us. I can see it's good stuff. 

 

This time we have used Two part Plastic Padding Leak Fix. Backed up by K Seal additive. Seems to be working. Fingers crossed. 

 

I hope i havent bu**ered the engine up with the K Seal. 

 

 

Make sure you leave the cap off until you get it fixed, it will be fine.

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11 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Make sure you leave the cap off until you get it fixed, it will be fine.

Don't want it over heating cap or no cap!  Will move off the marina mooring tomorrow. Moor up on 'tother side for a couple of days. Don't want to do the Erewash over a weekend. Might chance the river section Sunday. Nice and easy. And slow.

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Set off from Sawley yesterday. All fine, up Trent Lock, water tank filling stop, continued up the Erewash. Whilst going up in Long Eaton Lock noticed temp had risen. Upon investigation seems about fifteen litres of coolant had decided to get out via the header/expansion tank. This must have been a good hour and a half of running the engine. Any known reasons for this?

Water tempreture stayed at about 80 degrees. We crawled along, taking much notice of temp gauge and managed to get to Sandiacre, where we are staying put for today. The temporary repair has held, a little seepage but not as much a problem as water escaping via the header/expansion tank. Topped up coolant levels last night. Not run engine since. Reluctance?

 

Will proceed tomorrow.

Edited by Nightwatch
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Sounds to me as though it's going pretty well now.

 

I had coolant and overheating problems a couple of months ago and have since been keeping a closer eye on things. I have noticed that if I remove the cap from my (quite small) header tank, even after the engine has cooled down a fair bit, then almost immediately the level starts to rise quite quickly and overflows if I don't get the cap back on quickly. I assume it is the coolant expanding when the pressure is released. I wouldn't have expected 15 litres to overflow if I didn't get the cap back on but maybe it would as I have no idea really.

I now keep a small container under the header tank's overflow outlet  in case I don't get the cap back on quickly enough. 

 

Could you fit a 5 litre bucket underneath? I think I could, just.

 

You could then stop after, say, an hour to have a cup of tea while the engine cools down a bit and then pour the overflow back in before setting off again.

 

Edited by Lily Rose
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30 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

Sounds to me as though it's going pretty well now.

 

I had coolant and overheating problems a couple of months ago and have since been keeping a closer eye on things. I have noticed that if I remove the cap from my (quite small) header tank, even after the engine has cooled down a fair bit, then almost immediately the level starts to rise quite quickly and overflows if I don't get the cap back on quickly. I assume it is the coolant expanding when the pressure is released. I wouldn't have expected 15 litres to overflow if I didn't get the cap back on but maybe it would as I have no idea really.

I now keep a small container under the header tank's overflow outlet  in case I don't get the cap back on quickly enough. 

 

Could you fit a 5 litre bucket underneath? I think I could, just.

 

You could then stop after, say, an hour to have a cup of tea while the engine cools down a bit and then pour the overflow back in before setting off again.

 

Good ideas. The fact I'm travelling without the pressure cap fitted does dictate that coolant would 'get out' once hot. There's pleanty of room under the header tank for a bucket. Hadn't thought of that, but then again I wouldn't have expected so much water to escape. I'll just be glad when we are where we are going.

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2 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Good ideas. The fact I'm travelling without the pressure cap fitted does dictate that coolant would 'get out' once hot. There's pleanty of room under the header tank for a bucket. Hadn't thought of that, but then again I wouldn't have expected so much water to escape. I'll just be glad when we are where we are going.

Was it still full to the heck after the 15 lts had come out while hot, if not why didnt you just keep topping it up with hot water?

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46 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Set off from Sawley yesterday. All fine, up Trent Lock, water tank filling stop, continued up the Erewash. Whilst going up in Long Eaton Lock noticed temp had risen. Upon investigation seems about fifteen litres of coolant had decided to get out via the header/expansion tank. This must have been a good hour and a half of running the engine. Any known reasons for this?

Water tempreture stayed at about 80 degrees. We crawled along, taking much notice of temp gauge and managed to get to Sandiacre, where we are staying put for today. The temporary repair has held, a little seepage but not as much a problem as water escaping via the header/expansion tank. Topped up coolant levels last night. Not run engine since. Reluctance?

 

Will proceed tomorrow.

I had the exact same thing on a boat i went out to the other week ... It had suffered cooling problems andi had replaced the head gaskets and several parts of the pipework as it had failed... the boat still lost its coolant, then i discovered the actual cap seal on the expansion tank was totally shot, replaced the cap and no more issues ... everytime it had reached temp the water had risen , come straight out the leaking cap seal and obviously air was getting in. ... with a small expansion tank you cant run with the cap off.

 

Rick

 

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5 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

I had the exact same thing on a boat i went out to the other week ... It had suffered cooling problems andi had replaced the head gaskets and several parts of the pipework as it had failed... the boat still lost its coolant, then i discovered the actual cap seal on the expansion tank was totally shot, replaced the cap and no more issues ... everytime it had reached temp the water had risen , come straight out the leaking cap seal and obviously air was getting in. ... with a small expansion tank you cant run with the cap off.

 

Rick

 

With a calder for a skin tank you may have to but I would be watching the level and if there was any ullage in the header tank I would top it up

 

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20 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Was it still full to the heck after the 15 lts had come out while hot, if not why didnt you just keep topping it up with hot water?

The water came out unobserved. When I looked, once the engine had cooled a little, the header was empty. A question. If I had, in fact, seen the water over flowing, could I have put water into the header tank against the flow? I doubt it. 

16 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

I had the exact same thing on a boat i went out to the other week ... It had suffered cooling problems andi had replaced the head gaskets and several parts of the pipework as it had failed... the boat still lost its coolant, then i discovered the actual cap seal on the expansion tank was totally shot, replaced the cap and no more issues ... everytime it had reached temp the water had risen , come straight out the leaking cap seal and obviously air was getting in. ... with a small expansion tank you cant run with the cap off.

 

Rick

 

I am, as advised running without the pressure cap! Should I run with it in place? 

Edited by Nightwatch
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5 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

With a calder for a skin tank you may have to but I would be watching the level and if there was any ullage in the header tank I would top it up

 

The coolant came out via the header tank.

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21 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The water came out unobserved. When I looked, once the engine had cooled a little, the header was empty. A question. If I had, in fact, seen the water over flowing, could I have put water into the header tank against the flow? I doubt it. 

 

That is why I asked if it was full to the brim while hot, if it was down below the brim the water is going elsewhere. I think you should be watching this carefully 

17 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The coolant came out via the header tank.

You just answered my reply/question

 

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52 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The water came out unobserved. When I looked, once the engine had cooled a little, the header was empty. A question. If I had, in fact, seen the water over flowing, could I have put water into the header tank against the flow? I doubt it. 

I am, as advised running without the pressure cap! Should I run with it in place? 

yes because the cap is designed to open against its spring pressure to allow water out ... if you take it off effectively you are putting a hole in a sealed system as the coolant heats up you will see the level rise then fall as the stat opens , this is why you have 2 filling marks for hot or cold on most expansion tanks.... the only time it will pass the tank cap is if it boils up due to an airlock or a failed head gasket.... hence you never take a cap straight off a warm engine as you are likely to release the pressure held and the coolant is liable to scald you. 

 

Rick

Edited by dccruiser
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24 minutes ago, dccruiser said:

yes because the cap is designed to open against its spring pressure to allow water out ... if you take it off effectively you are putting a hole in a sealed system as the coolant heats up you will see the level rise then fall as the stat opens , this is why you have 2 filling marks for hot or cold on most expansion tanks.... the only time it will pass the tank cap is if it boils up due to an airlock or a failed head gasket.... hence you never take a cap straight off a warm engine as you are likely to release the pressure held and the coolant is liable to scald you. 

 

Rick

This is why I questioned the suggestion of running without the pressure cap in place. The suggestion, I think, was made to protect the repair I have carried out on the skin tank. We are moving on a mile or two soon, I will replace the pressure cap.

You highly recenmended evo stick hard and fast. We used this but it didn't take. Perhaps because of poor preparation. We were successful with plastic padding water fix two pack. Spent lots of time in preparation and I, me, rather than second in command applying it. I ached the next day or so after contortions down the 'ole.

Edited by Nightwatch
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My concern would be that if you run with the pressure cap in place and for long enough for heat and pressure to build up, the repair might blow and leak again.

 

If there's a risk of coolant coming out I think I'd prefer it to come out the top into a bucket rather than from skin tank into bilge. If the repair has held so far without the cap I probably wouldn't risk putting it back on now.

 

If you are literally only going to move a mile or two then it's probably not going to get hot enough for much to overflow.

 

But I'm only guessing based on limited experience.

 

How much further to your destination?

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

This is why I questioned the suggestion of running without the pressure cap in place. The suggestion, I think, was made to protect the repair I have carried out on the skin tank. We are moving on a mile or two soon, I will replace the pressure cap.

You highly recenmended evo stick hard and fast. We used this but it didn't take. Perhaps because of poor preparation. We were successful with plastic padding water fix two pack. Spent lots of time in preparation and I, me, rather than second in command applying it. I ached the next day or so after contortions down the 'ole.

I had it the other way around ... the Plastic padding didnt work for me , but the evo stick did! .... I can only think the reason is down to the temperature as mine failed Jan before last just before that deluge of snow! .... 

I am sure with the cap on you will be just fine , but do make sure that the system is bled properly before setting off ... good luck :)

Rick

Edited by dccruiser
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