emergency services and what3words

[Mike Todd]

17 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

It’s all very well being wary and suspicious, and not a bad thing where free web sites are concerned but, dont lots of sites use Google, none of whom are making guarantees if Google goes bust?

 

Why assume the worst of one particular site, tarring them with the brush of another unrelated site, when they might be biding their time until they can guarantee advertisers a big audience and monetise things in the usual way.

 

Facebook and Google remain free to use, as do many other sites. If Facebook started charging me, they would be gone at the drop of a hat, as would Google if they charged for searches.

 

If W3W start charging for a position, perhaps that is the time to dump and criticise them. At the moment, they seem to be providing something useful and, potentially, life saving.

There is a difference between sites that you use if they are there and answer the right question, but nothing hangs on their persistence, and those offering something that involves a lot of investment by others and matters when you use it, rather than right now.

 

I have recently started to see a number of sites, some in republic sector, that use Google , but havean overlay that says 'for development purposes only'. Clearly soneone in Quality Control forgot to check what the IT were putting out, but trying it for real not just in the lab. Presumably they failed to make proper licence arrangements. Or perhaps the licence control by Google is being tightened.

 

I am not against Three Words, it is potentially a good idea but does have the flavour of being promoted by someone interested in the idea but where the long term, sustainability, issues are not though through. Using a prototype as a proof of concept is fine until the sales team start selling just that! 

 

Just some such prototypes do make it to market long-term but usually by sheer market domination and others then gave to run around plugging the holes for ever after. 

 

Do you happen to know what work has been done to consider the hacking potential for Three Words?

 

Having seen one or two later comments it is also worth remembering that postcodes are now used for all sorts of purposes that were not part of the design brief. This is often the source of the advedse instances. And that is a system centrally maintained for a public service.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Mike Todd

[TheBiscuits]

24 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

Do you happen to know what work has been done to consider the hacking potential for Three Words?

I'm confused by this comment.

 

They took a map of the planet's surface and allocated 3 words to every 3m square.  How can you hack this?  You could print it off as hardcopy if you wanted to,  but it would be a big atlas!

 

 

[Jerra]

18 hours ago, WotEver said:

Then they told me that because I hadn’t used my print credits (which I’d paid for, in advance) within the allocated timeframe I had now lost them. 

Off topic I know but exactly like much mobile phone data.   Personally I struggle with the concept of buying something and then being told it is no longer mine.   But then I have never understood (probably better to say accepted) the concept of "buying" a computer program and not owning it.

[WotEver]

53 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Off topic I know but exactly like much mobile phone data.   Personally I struggle with the concept of buying something and then being told it is no longer mine.   But then I have never understood (probably better to say accepted) the concept of "buying" a computer program and not owning it.

I’ve always vigorously avoided the subscription model for any software that I use, either for business or personal use. 

[Jerra]

17 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I’ve always vigorously avoided the subscription model for any software that I use, either for business or personal use. 

Long before the subscription model you didn't/don't own  the software you are merely licensed to use it.   For example many used to say you weren't allowed to sell it when you had finished with it.

[Iain_S]

23 hours ago, Tumshie said:

(snip)

? Oh yes, Scottish Canals do this all the time. There was a big flood defence project in and around Inverness, loads of work was done round the River Ness and the Caley Canal; several organisation were involved including BW/SC who were told point blank this is what we are doing, this is what you will do and this is the extra funding that you will use to do it. The job was done and SC wrote a huge blog piece for the site singing how they as a body were responsible for all these miles of canals and that they regularly had to use their vast knowledge and skill to make difficult decisions for the good of the canals and with this budget that they manage so well.... blah blah blah.... and therefore this historic and well loved feature of the local environment.... blah blah blah. Don't get me wrong they did a fantastic job but oh boy did they ham it up for their own self promotion, if you weren't local and were reading that original post you would be very impressed but as a local you would read it and laugh your head off - I noticed a while back that there was a much more rounded account of what happen though still very self promoting. But I think that what they call marketing and is just the norm these days. 

 

 

Too right! We have recently attended he re-opening event for the Forth and Clyde Canal. The Scottish Canals line is that their heroic efforts have restored the canal for the benefit of the populace. No mention that it was their lack of maintenance that caused it to close in  the first place, or that they received extra funding from the Scottish Parliament, which was ring fenced for repair of the broken bridges!

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, Jerra said:

Long before the subscription model you didn't/don't own  the software you are merely licensed to use it.   For example many used to say you weren't allowed to sell it when you had finished with it.

Yes indeed, but that’s never bothered me personally. I do object however to the subscription model where a light occasional user pays exactly the same monthly price as a professional who’s using it day in and day out. 

 

I used to use LogMeIn professionally until last year when they informed me that my renewal subscription would be $599. I cancelled the subscription and moved to Splashtop which offers much the same features for $99 (and for more pc’s). LogMeIn Customer Save then phoned me and offered to price match...

[StephenA]

8 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I have recently started to see a number of sites, some in republic sector, that use Google , but havean overlay that says 'for development purposes only'. Clearly soneone in Quality Control forgot to check what the IT were putting out, but trying it for real not just in the lab. Presumably they failed to make proper licence arrangements. Or perhaps the licence control by Google is being tightened.

 

Yes Google did - that's why Canalplan dumped Googlemaps as we got a several hundred £ bill for one months usage.

[Tumshie]

What3words is back in the new with the police encouraging people to download it

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49319760

 

thought this bit was good

 

For example, the door of 10 Downing Street is slurs.this.shark, while the area across the road where the press congregate is stage.pushy.nuns. 

[Thorfast]

I have downloaded the app, but am struggling to see how it will become common use for the majority.

There is no logic to it, no intuition, no progression. With OS grid references you can work out where you are and understand how to calculate other locations. With longtitude and latidude the same applies. What3words is completely random, one 3 metre square has no words that relate or link it to the adjoining 3 metre square.How can anyone learn how to use it, how to calculate their position. No logic, no progression...completely random.

[Tumshie]

17 minutes ago, Thorfast said:

I have downloaded the app, but am struggling to see how it will become common use for the majority.

There is no logic to it, no intuition, no progression. With OS grid references you can work out where you are and understand how to calculate other locations. With longtitude and latidude the same applies. What3words is completely random, one 3 metre square has no words that relate or link it to the adjoining 3 metre square.How can anyone learn how to use it, how to calculate their position. No logic, no progression...completely random.

I don't really understand it either, well I do, but not in the sense that if you gave me the 3 words of you location what would I have to do with them for them tell me how to find you. 

 

You can't write it down like directions - it has to first be decoded and then you see the position on the map. Maybe if I actually investigated the app that might help. ?

[Lily Rose]

2 hours ago, Tumshie said:

I don't really understand it either, well I do, but not in the sense that if you gave me the 3 words of you location what would I have to do with them for them tell me how to find you. 

 

You can't write it down like directions - it has to first be decoded and then you see the position on the map. Maybe if I actually investigated the app that might help. ?

 

Just type the 3 words into the app's search bar and you can then see the location on a map or satellite image. I just tried it for slurs.this.shark and it worked.

 

If I then I click on "Navigate here" it gives me a list of the relevant apps on my phone (Waze and Navmii) that can give me directions.

 

Personally I think it is worth the tiny amount of storage space it requires to download no matter how sceptical you are. It won't do any harm if you never use it but one day it might just come in rather useful to say the least.

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Lily Rose

[Thorfast]

23 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

 

Just type the 3 words into the app's search bar and you can then see the location on a map or satellite image. I just tried it for slurs.this.shark and it worked.

 

If I then I click on "Navigate here" it gives me a list of the relevant apps on my phone (Waze and Navmii) that can give me directions.

 

Personally I think it is worth the tiny amount of storage space it requires to download no matter how sceptical you are. It won't do any harm if you never use it but one day it might just come in rather useful to say the least.

 

But that just adds an extra layer into the equation. I now have to look up the 3 words first on their system before I can find out where to go. Nobody advertises their location using Just 3 words. As far as I can see it has no application except if im lost in a forest or desert and want someone to come and find me. It will never be used by shops, factories, homes as a location adress, therare too many other better ways find where you want to go.

I stand by my observation that it has very limited application, no progressive understanding, no logic to help understand your location. Perhaps useful in remote Mongolia but not so much here.

[Lily Rose]

24 minutes ago, Thorfast said:

But that just adds an extra layer into the equation. I now have to look up the 3 words first on their system before I can find out where to go. Nobody advertises their location using Just 3 words. As far as I can see it has no application except if im lost in a forest or desert and want someone to come and find me. It will never be used by shops, factories, homes as a location adress, therare too many other better ways find where you want to go.

I stand by my observation that it has very limited application, no progressive understanding, no logic to help understand your location. Perhaps useful in remote Mongolia but not so much here.

 

I'm not sure what it is that you think you might want to use it for. For me it has one purpose only*, and that one purpose is potentially so valuable that it is worth downloading just for that.

 

I'm hoping I never need to use it but it's good to know it's there if I do.

 

* To enable me or my wife to give a precise, and very easily obtainable, location to the emergency services in the event of an accident or serious medical situation. It could literally mean the difference between life or death.

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Lily Rose

[Richard10002]

4 hours ago, Tumshie said:

Maybe if I actually investigated the app that might help. ?

err! Yes!!!

 

I've just downloaded the app, identified the 3 words for my home and my boat and, like someone else has done, entered the 3 words for 10, Downing Street, found it on the map, and gave a choice of nav apps, and Uber, to direct me/get me there.

 

Give a fireman, paramedic, policeman, friend, relative, etc., your 3 word location, and, aremd with their version of the app, they will know where you are, and be able to get directions as appropriate.

 

Near Bridge 57 on The Trent And Mersey might work, but not as easy, and not as precise.

[Tony Brooks]

Do I understand from this that these smart phones with GPS can't give you OS reference? If they can then why do you need the app in question. I would have thought that a call handler talking to a member of Joe public, maybe with a speech impediment, accent or dialect,  would find it faster and less prone to error to use OS references or post codes (I know post codes can cover massive areas). Imagine someone with a very broad Scottish accent trying to give three random words to a southern English call handler. Then think about how well untrained members of the public will get on ioth spelling the three words using the phonetic alphabet. I am sort of agreeing it seems a bit pointless to me.

[BruceinSanity]

8 hours ago, Thorfast said:

But that just adds an extra layer into the equation. I now have to look up the 3 words first on their system before I can find out where to go. Nobody advertises their location using Just 3 words. As far as I can see it has no application except if im lost in a forest or desert and want someone to come and find me. It will never be used by shops, factories, homes as a location adress, therare too many other better ways find where you want to go.

I stand by my observation that it has very limited application, no progressive understanding, no logic to help understand your location. Perhaps useful in remote Mongolia but not so much here.

If you are comfortable using 8 character OS map refs or lat and long, fine, but an awful lot of the population struggles with anything with numbers in it and W3W gives them a simple set of words which defines a one metre square. I can see its value not just for emergency services but for directing visitors to the boat location.

 

Who needs “logic to help understand your location”? , I’m at flagged.brisk.facelift, end of, and I can see that on either Google maps or Apple map if needed. I’ve no doubt sat navs will start accepting the W3W location soon if they haven’t already.

[Lily Rose]

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Do I understand from this that these smart phones with GPS can't give you OS reference? If they can then why do you need the app in question. I would have thought that a call handler talking to a member of Joe public, maybe with a speech impediment, accent or dialect,  would find it faster and less prone to error to use OS references or post codes (I know post codes can cover massive areas). Imagine someone with a very broad Scottish accent trying to give three random words to a southern English call handler. Then think about how well untrained members of the public will get on ioth spelling the three words using the phonetic alphabet. I am sort of agreeing it seems a bit pointless to me.

I have apps on my phone that can give OS grid references and latitude and longitude as well. However, it is far from obvious that they are correct as, unlike W3W, they don't show where they refer to on a map and I've had two apps give me two different OS grid references for the same location.

 

I understand the issues about spelling etc but I don't think the emergency services would be suggesting everyone downloads the app if they thought it was pointless. I would also think that at some point in its future development the app will be able to send the location by text.

 

2 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

If you are comfortable using 8 character OS map refs or lat and long, fine, but an awful lot of the population struggles with anything with numbers in it and W3W gives them a simple set of words which defines a one metre square. I can see its value not just for emergency services but for directing visitors to the boat location.

 

Who needs “logic to help understand your location”? , I’m at flagged.brisk.facelift, end of, and I can see that on either Google maps or Apple map if needed. I’ve no doubt sat navs will start accepting the W3W location soon if they haven’t already.

Agree with all that.

 

Although I haven't yet fired up Waze to see what happens, W3W does bring it up in s list which suggests to me that it will accept the location and direct you to it.

[BruceinSanity]

12 minutes ago, Lily Rose said:

the app will be able to send the location by text.

The share option on my iOS version offers exactly that, along with email.

[Lily Rose]

1 minute ago, BruceinSanity said:

The share option on my iOS version offers exactly that, along with email.

The Android one probably does as well then, I hadn't thought to check that yet.

[Lily Rose]

3 hours ago, BruceinSanity said:

The share option on my iOS version offers exactly that, along with email.

 

I've tried it now. In the Android app I clicked share and it gave me loads of options including Gmail, SMS and WhatsApp. I emailed it to my wife and she opened it on her iPad which doesn't have W3W installed. The link opened the web browser and showed her our precise current location on a map (and satellite view).

 

I also called up my marina pontoon's location (saved as a favourite), clicked on Navigate here, selected Waze and got directions from where I am now to my pontoon. Much better than using the marina's postcode. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to describe in detail to people how to find my boat in the marina. W3W makes it much easier even if they don't have the W3W app.

 

I think this is potentially so useful that it's only a matter of time before its use becomes much more widespread.

 

[Graham Davis]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Do I understand from this that these smart phones with GPS can't give you OS reference? If they can then why do you need the app in question. I would have thought that a call handler talking to a member of Joe public, maybe with a speech impediment, accent or dialect,  would find it faster and less prone to error to use OS references or post codes (I know post codes can cover massive areas). Imagine someone with a very broad Scottish accent trying to give three random words to a southern English call handler. Then think about how well untrained members of the public will get on ioth spelling the three words using the phonetic alphabet. I am sort of agreeing it seems a bit pointless to me.

No a smartphone will not give an OS reference without downloading a relevant app, and even then only if the GPS receiver is turned on, which is often not automatic. 
As a general rule most smart phones use triangulation from the phone masts to pinpoint their position, and accuracy from that can be anything from yards to miles out, especially in areas of poor or no reception. 

[Lily Rose]

8 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

No a smartphone will not give an OS reference without downloading a relevant app, and even then only if the GPS receiver is turned on, which is often not automatic. 
As a general rule most smart phones use triangulation from the phone masts to pinpoint their position, and accuracy from that can be anything from yards to miles out, especially in areas of poor or no reception. 

As I mentioned earlier (post 68)...

 

I have apps on my phone that can give OS grid references and latitude and longitude as well. However, it is far from obvious that they are correct as, unlike W3W, they don't show where they refer to on a map and I've had two apps give me two different OS grid references for the same location.

 

It's true that GPS needs to be on but this is also the case for W3W as well. If GPS is needed but is off the app will prompt you to turn it on.

 

My point was that you can't be sure the OS grid reference is correct whereas with W3W you can.

 

 

 

 

 

[BruceinSanity]

1 hour ago, Lily Rose said:

My point was that you can't be sure the OS grid reference is correct whereas with W3W you can.

In addition, on mine the app shows the location on embedded Google mapping and you can drag the pin to correct any inaccuracy arising from the triangulation or GPS.

[Lily Rose]

4 minutes ago, BruceinSanity said:

In addition, on mine the app shows the location on embedded Google mapping and you can drag the pin to correct any inaccuracy arising from the triangulation or GPS.

It's the same on Android.