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Deanhopefullboater

Continuous Cruising In London With Full Time Job. Can it be done?

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28 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

As a CCer (alleged CMer), what I am trying to determine is what about my cruising pattern (and others like me) is so reprehensible to so many of you ( @Murflynn, @BWM, @Alan de Enfield and @Chris Williams at least).

 

To paraphrase Justice Lord Halibut (I think), the difference between a CMer and a CCer is temporal, not geographical. 

 

If your intention is to move as little as possible to comply with the law, then temporally you are a CMer no matter how far you cruise. This is the answer to your question. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

To paraphrase Justice Lord Halibut (I think), the difference between a CMer and a CCer is temporal, not geographical. 

 

If your intention is to move as little as possible to comply with the law, then temporally you are a CMer no matter how far you cruise. This is the answer to your question. 

 

 

True! But that doesnt really answer why some boaters object to this kind of movement, that's just an explanation of the definition/distinction of the two terms.

If a boat is mooring in locations with ample space for other boats, say at least 3 or 4 miles apart for 2 weeks at a time and covering a range of 50/100 miles I don't think anyone does have problem. 

Edited by Dave123

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13 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

True! But that doesnt really answer why some boaters object to this kind of movement, that's just an explanation of the definition/distinction of the two terms.

If a boat is mooring in locations with ample space for other boats, say at least 3 or 4 miles apart for 2 weeks at a time and covering a range of 50/100 miles I don't think anyone does have problem. 

Agreed - but to continue with Ivan's questioning - "at what distance do you consider it to be a problem ?"

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21 hours ago, Murflynn said:

constantly noticing waterfowl taking flight when I approach

Surely that is what happens with a Bollinger when you try to reverse it.

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On 14/07/2019 at 10:00, Alan de Enfield said:

I think that the definition of a 'Public Highway' is one where the Public have access and are not required to pay an entry fee.

Even on 'byways' that can be used by vehicles they are required to have MOT, Tax & insurance, a 'byway' is simply an unmade road.

 

Is the towpath a public highway ?

Some tow-paths are public rights of way and some are simply 'permissive' paths.

Be interesting to see documentation showing which ones are which.

I think they are know as BOATs. No pun intended. As in  Byways Open to All Traffic. At least the councils called them that at one time.

Edited by mark99

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19 minutes ago, mark99 said:

I think they are know as BOATs. No pun intended. As in  Byways open to all traffic.

Generally (now)  the term BOAT is changed to 'by-way' (which is open to use by all traffic) so the 'OAT' has been dropped, and a 'restricted by-way' (which is open to everything except motorised traffic') has been introduced.

Edited by Alan de Enfield

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11 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

No. But I have no wish to influence them, I think the rules as they stand are just fine. As a CCer (alleged CMer), what I am trying to determine is what about my cruising pattern (and others like me) is so reprehensible to so many of you ( @Murflynn, @BWM, @Alan de Enfield and @Chris Williams at least). The reason I am trying to determine this is to try to find a way to be a more considerate boater, so that I can try to bridge the very obvious divide.

 

I'm surprised at your take on the conversation in this thread, and suggest that you re read comments from the beginning before arriving at the conclusion that i find any of your behaviour, cruising pattern or otherwise, reprehensible. From my perspective i see no such divide, and efforts to discuss any negative matters surely benefit all with a genuine interest in life afloat. 

  I do wonder exactly how long you have been living on the canals, as those who were living aboard 15 years or more ago would remember the look on the faces of most boat owners you met when the subject of your being a liveaboard came up - noses went in the air and conversations often finished. Many marinas were sniffy, it mattered not a jot if you had a mooring or not.

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15 minutes ago, BWM said:

 

  I do wonder exactly how long you have been living on the canals, as those who were living aboard 15 years or more ago would remember the look on the faces of most boat owners you met when the subject of your being a liveaboard came up - noses went in the air and conversations often finished. Many marinas were sniffy, it mattered not a jot if you had a mooring or not.

I didn't find that when I lived on maybe 25 years ago. Maybe because most boaters I knew lived on, I suppose, with or without a mooring. Bit like I find now, no one cares very much. The debate, rather like on here, seems to be between just a few people with axes to grind or chips on shoulders. Most boaters just like boats, and boating whenever they can,whether they are owners in marinas, CCers, hire boaters or whatever. 

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5 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Most boaters just like boats, and boating whenever they can,whether they are owners in marinas, CCers, hire boaters or whatever. 

Indeed that is correct - it is when you get 'pretend CCers' (CMers) who are only interested in cheap housing in an 'expensive area'. The fact they are living on a boat is a consequence of their choice, not because it is their choice.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Indeed that is correct - it is when you get 'pretend CCers' (CMers) who are only interested in cheap housing in an 'expensive area'. The fact they are living on a boat is a consequence of their choice, not because it is their choice.

I don’t fall either side of the line that seems to being drawn here. There are different types of boating/living lifestyles and I don’t feel strongly that one is right or wrong. But maybe it’s time for another type of licence for those who are not Continuous Cruisers under whatever terms you want to apply. If people want to move very little compared to the current “rules” or “guidelines” perhaps a premium could be applied to their licence to recognise this and provide investment to maintain or improve facilities. Stick a GPS tracker on every boat and use that to determine which category the boat falls into. Nah, I don’t think there’s an answer that will satisfy everyone.

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16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Indeed that is correct - it is when you get 'pretend CCers' (CMers) who are only interested in cheap housing in an 'expensive area'. The fact they are living on a boat is a consequence of their choice, not because it is their choice.

Sometimes it's just "housing", cheap doesn't really enter into it. There's got to be an answer, preferably one that increases CRT's income. I suspect a big increase in CRT's online moorings, heavily policed, in the popular areas, with some visitor moorings also being charged for, as at llangollen. It'll make London virtually unvisitable without prior booking, but it probably is already as far as I can tell. And most leisure boaters don't want to go there anyway, being more interested in country than city. 

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8 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It'll make London virtually unvisitable without prior booking, but it probably is already as far as I can tell. And most leisure boaters don't want to go there anyway, being more interested in country than city. 

It aready is, People who had paid for moorings near or in London are moving their boats further away (We have new moorers at the marina who had London moorings). As taking the boat for the day or weekend was getting next to inpossable with either no where to moor or mile after mile of rat boats moored double from Lock to Lock. Part of the Regent's canal are now starting to smell in the hot weather (How many are just dumping over the side?). 

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19 minutes ago, Stewart Kirby said:

Stick a GPS tracker on every boat and use that to determine which category the boat falls into.

*A previous proposal was to charge (say) £3,000 for a licence and 'refund' (say) £x per mile travelled.

It could be a sliding scale (say) £2 per mile for the 1st 300 miles, £4 per mile for the next 300 miles, £5 per mile for the next 400 miles

 

The ones who travel the most, pay the least.

The ones who don't move may as well have a mooring.

 

* 'numbers' just for example - they could be higher or lower.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No, I think you would end up with a damp crotch !

 

 

 


Image result for bollinger

Wrong Bolinder, though it would probably run on it.

bolinder.JPG

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7 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

It aready is, People who had paid for moorings near or in London are moving their boats further away (We have new moorers at the marina who had London moorings). As taking the boat for the day or weekend was getting next to inpossable with either no where to moor or mile after mile of rat boats moored double from Lock to Lock. Part of the Regent's canal are now starting to smell in the hot weather (How many are just dumping over the side?). 

No it isnt, we were in London on Friday and Saturday, and as you do, wandered onto the Regents/Paddington Arm.

You could have moored in Paddington basin without breasting up, at least 2 empty berths, and Little Venice was also not as full as the last few times I have been down.

The number of available berths has halved in Paddington basin due to the ridiculous dinghies taking up space for about 8 narrowboats.

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

*A previous proposal was to charge (say) £3,000 for a licence and 'refund' (say) £x per mile travelled.

It could be a sliding scale (say) £2 per mile for the 1st 300 miles, £4 per mile for the next 300 miles, £5 per mile for the next 400 miles

 

The ones who travel the most, pay the least.

The ones who don't move may as well have a mooring.

 

* 'numbers' just for example - they could be higher or lower.

Or simply do what was done before the advent of mooring fees. Boat registers a "home area". Licence rises to include what CRT would charge for mooring. Moorers are no worse off. Rebate at year end for CCers if CRT's records show distance travel satisfies them . 

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34 minutes ago, matty40s said:

No it isnt, we were in London on Friday and Saturday, and as you do, wandered onto the Regents/Paddington Arm.

You could have moored in Paddington basin without breasting up, at least 2 empty berths, and Little Venice was also not as full as the last few times I have been down.

The number of available berths has halved in Paddington basin due to the ridiculous dinghies taking up space for about 8 narrowboats.

I have to disagree, It is what the new moorers are telling us, why else would they say so. Futher down the Regents rat boats everywhere.

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9 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

I have to disagree, It is what the new moorers are telling us, why else would they say so. Futher down the Regents rat boats everywhere.

As with most things , it's not the reality anyway, it's the perception . I, and most people I know up here wouldn't be interested in travelling to London because of its rep. So CRT might as well accept reality, take the money and turn it into a housing estate. They don't even need to define them as residential moorings - let the local authorities sort that one out. 

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30 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

As with most things , it's not the reality anyway, it's the perception . I, and most people I know up here wouldn't be interested in travelling to London because of its rep. So CRT might as well accept reality, take the money and turn it into a housing estate. They don't even need to define them as residential moorings - let the local authorities sort that one out. 

I seen it for myself, Last time I took a boat along the Regent's canal in 2002. From  Little Venice (The mooring limits here have always been heavly enforced) until Limehouse basin or the River Lee via Duckets Cut, You rarely would see a boat moored on the towpath. Today it is now in the 100's, double moored, You can clearly see this on Google maps from Kentish Town Lock onwards you see large numbers of double moored boats on the towpath.

 

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11 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I didn't find that when I lived on maybe 25 years ago. Maybe because most boaters I knew lived on, I suppose, with or without a mooring. Bit like I find now, no one cares very much. The debate, rather like on here, seems to be between just a few people with axes to grind or chips on shoulders. Most boaters just like boats, and boating whenever they can,whether they are owners in marinas, CCers, hire boaters or whatever. 

True this! Hard to even remember anything positivity from boaters I have spoken to in the flesh.

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35 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

I seen it for myself, Last time I took a boat along the Regent's canal in 2002. From  Little Venice (The mooring limits here have always been heavly enforced) until Limehouse basin or the River Lee via Duckets Cut, You rarely would see a boat moored on the towpath. Today it is now in the 100's, double moored, You can clearly see this on Google maps from Kentish Town Lock onwards you see large numbers of double moored boats on the towpath.

 

But I repeat...this is a good thing. The canals in london (outside of a small central bit from perhaps Angel to little venice) are genuinely improved for every user by having lots of moored boats. 25 years ago they were derelict, deserted no go areas. It is only the vibrant, colourful community of liveaboard boats that have changed this and made so much more of London's canals a visitor attraction.

Good evidence of this is the number of times I have seen people/tourists etc strolling along the canal looking at moored boats and turning back when reaching the end of the line of moored boats. They aren't interested in history or architecture (sadly), just people's quirky homes! When I lived in London (before living on a boat) I would often walk the canals around London but generally also stopped when I'd reached the end of moored boats as it sometimes didn't feel safe or simply wasn't interesting anymore.

And if there were no boats moored along London's canals visiting boats wouldn't feel safe and wouldn't visit anyway!

Yes, there is a strain on facilities but CRT are slowly recognising this and adding more.

It is a different story in places like the western K&A to be fair and I can't really comment as haven't visited since a hire boat trip 10 years ago.

Edited by Dave123

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10 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

But I repeat...this is a good thing. The canals in london (outside of a small central bit from perhaps Angel to little venice) are genuinely improved for every user by having lots of moored boats. 25 years ago they were derelict, deserted no go areas. It is only the vibrant, colourful community of liveaboard boats that have changed this and made so much more of London's canals a visitor attraction. If there were no boats moored along London's canals visiting boats wouldn't feel safe and wouldn't visit anyway! It is a different story in places like the western K&A to be fair and I can't really comment as haven't visited since a hire boat trip 10 years ago.

Bovine Droppings, A community of simi derelict rat boats, They are a eyesore who are a drain on local council services. Who demand more and more services, yet refuse to pay a penny. Only in the eyes of the freeloader are they a visitor attraction. But only to visiting rats. 

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2 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

I seen it for myself, Last time I took a boat along the Regent's canal in 2002. From  Little Venice (The mooring limits here have always been heavly enforced) until Limehouse basin or the River Lee via Duckets Cut, You rarely would see a boat moored on the towpath. Today it is now in the 100's, double moored, You can clearly see this on Google maps from Kentish Town Lock onwards you see large numbers of double moored boats on the towpath.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dave123 said:

True this! Hard to even remember anything positivity from boaters I have spoken to in the flesh.

We kept a boat on the Bow Backs and then further up the Lee and there was a period in the 1970s and 1980s  when you simply didn't stop between Little Venice and Limehouse.  And neither did  you use Limehouse Cut after 11.00 am. 

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4 hours ago, Dave123 said:

25 years ago they were derelict, deserted no go areas. It is only the vibrant, colourful community of liveaboard boats that have changed this and made so much more of London's canals a visitor attraction.

What a complete and utter load of cods!

Twenty five years ago I was often to be found on the London canals and no bother at all.

Years before that I used to moor at Turner Marinas and for me going East was never a problem, there were as in any city a few places you wouldn't stop.

The rat infested hole London has become lately is not somewhere I will visit again.

Edited by Loddon
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