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Deanhopefullboater

Continuous Cruising In London With Full Time Job. Can it be done?

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4 minutes ago, Corkkeys said:

Why do people on boats outside London spend so much time getting upset about boats inside London?  

If you go right back to the beginning of this thread (which seems long ago now) you will find that the OP (Original Poster) asked a question about boating and working in London. The discussion developed from there, with various members stating their points of view and recounting their own experiences, as often happens here on CWDF. So, their comments are relevant and informative.

Have you any experience of boating and/ or working in the London area? If so, tell us about it.

14 minutes ago, Corkkeys said:

-I am responding to misery,

 

What does this mean?

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15 minutes ago, Corkkeys said:

 

 Not a threat, just an odd thing to be so offensive and rude and advertise your boat. Trolls usually know better. I wouldn't want that information on a public forum,

It did bear some resemblance to a threat, so it is pleasing that you have confirmed that it is not so.

N.B. Firesprite, was simply stating his points of view vigorously, is not "advertising" his boat. It's not for sale. He is not a troll, but a long-term member here. Lastly, what information should he not give, and why not? Plenty of us mention the name and location of our boats in our avatars, and some also include a picture of the boat, as I have done. Are you suggesting that there is something wrong in doing so?

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17 minutes ago, Corkkeys said:

Boat wise, London is busy, very busy, but the picture being painted on this thread is very warped. 

 

 

 

Thank you for that most informative post (I haven't quoted it all to save space), which I trust that CWDF members will read and learn from.

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5 hours ago, matty40s said:

Its the selfish old farts that force the youngsters into this situation in the first place.

The only way kids(up to 35/40)have of having a place of their own without paying extortionate rents, is to have a boat and save up a deposit for somewhere. 

 

Was reading about this earlier:

Poor tenants pay for landlords to live like kings

 

One surprising fact is that there is actually plenty of housing to go round - it's the second home owners and landlords who leave properties empty who are the real cause of London's housing and boating problems.

 

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20 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Im glad i was born in the 50s.

life was so much simpler

 

I can beat that - even though there was a war on, everyone pulled together and got on with life.  (Psst, wanna buy some nylons?)

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cheaper to just paint a seam up the back of the leg with make-up, thereby avoiding supporting the black market and those guys 'over here'.

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3 hours ago, Corkkeys said:

Boat wise, London is busy, very busy, but the picture being painted on this thread is very warped. 

 

Also won't quote it all...But best response so far in my opinion.

 

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4 hours ago, KevMc said:

I find it hard to believe that city life is good for our mental and physical health .... the pressure of too many people in too small a space; the constant rushing around; the noise; pollution; lack of horizon .... nope if you ask me the peeps who designed the study live a very comfortable life in the country and phrased the study so that it would make city life appear better 'cos they don't want city folk polluting their rural idyll :cheers:

Pollution can be as bad in many rural places...an awful lot of pretty villages suffer huge traffic jams. Thinking Lyndhurst near where my parents live now...Or anywhere in the Lake district! And city folk can still get out into green spaces. Discovered Bushy park when I was moored at Hampton Court last Summer and it's amazingly vast. But I agree it's a pretty personal thing as to what makes an individual happier. And of course many villages are well provided with shops/services and a community. Many are not though.

 

But the main points of the study were the smaller carbon footprint of individuals living in a city...which is much harder to argue against. 

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52 minutes ago, Dave123 said:

...Or anywhere in the Lake district!

Living a few hundred yards outside the Lake District NP and having lived within 20 or 30 miles most of my life traffic jams and pollution.  Lots of slow moving traffic yes, however indicators of pollution such as Lichens seem to be doing OK for most of the area. 

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Boo who, The Bargee Travellers don't like the cold hard facts of life, There is no such as a free lunch or a handout, someone always has to pay. There is no magic money tree, even if the NBTA think there is. C&RT is short of cash and things will get much worse in 2022 when the grant money ends.

Yet all we ever hear from the Bargee Travellers is We want!, We want! We want!. Yet they don't want to pay nothing towards the extra cost.

Only a few weeks ago they were demanding that their members with kids in school should be allowed to be moored in the same place (Free) without being forced to move every two weeks in term time. The local market rate for a mooring is over £15000 a year (Battlebridge Basin) If all the Bargee Travellers on the Regents Canal paid, C&RT would have an extra 7.2 million in funds each year. . It been claimed that they move around, yet most don't. I seen the same group of boats from friend's window that have been moored in the same place for months.

As for the claim that the NBTA are 'Guardians of Tow-path', who are they fooling other then themselves. That is like the Travellers on the road claiming to be 'Guardians of Pavement, Car Park, School Field or Park' when told to move-on by the Police and the Courts .

As for the claim that it is imposable for the 20-30 years get a foot on the ladder. This wrong again, the real reason is simple. They can not manage money to save the deposit for a mortgage, it is all to often to much month at the end of the money.

It is all down to spending on the latest must have. Be it the latest iPhone, Ipad, 60” screen TV, the full Sky package, fashion and a lot of other pricey things. The current iphone XS even with the trade in price is over £750, who the sort of fool who pays this sort of price for a phone and this every time a new model comes out, which is about every 18 months. Yet I have never paid more then £40 for a phone and then I only replace if damaged or the battery is worn-out. The same with computers, Yet I only upgrade when required, I'm still using the same ATX case I brought in 92, just replacing bits when needed. The LCD screen is 20 years still does the Job, which is a good thing as finding a replacement 17” might prove to be a bit hard.

Like most people of my age on this forum, we were taught the value of money and the need for money management at school or by our parents, the importance of saving for things rather then use credit. It's hardly news that people spend more freely with credit cards than when they're using cash. We all seen the 20 something with the wallet full of cards,

Using a credit card instead of cash is called "payment decoupling", a fancy term for the fact that credit cards mean you get to enjoy your new iPhone, weeks or months before actual paying for it, add a fascinating wrinkle: spending actual cash feels uniquely painful even when decoupling's not an issue. When experimental subjects were given free cash and invited to spend some of it, they do so more conservatively than when given credit vouchers – even when they're told they'll get their change in cash either way. A single credit card does have it's uses. Either as a backup or for a purchase of £100 for section 75 protection and then only if you can pay the full amount that month. f you normally put all of your purchases on your credit card, and then you don’t pay off your credit cards in full every month, because of added interest charges you are probably paying at least 50% more for everything you buy. If you are relying on your credit cards to afford your lifestyle, your living beyond your means and you know where that will end.

It is completely possible for a 20-30 year old to not only save a 20% deposit and get a mortgage. And I don't mean the North East either, My own daughter (28) and son-in law brought their first two bedroom house two years ago in Dorset, only a few miles from my own place in the Purbeck's. Dorset is not a cheap place to buy a house, and we have the most expensive street in the South West to buy a house. Yet to save the 20% deposit took only eight years and they did not live like hermits, Not that it possible to do that with two girls, simple by careful money management and using a budget and sticking to it. Not having student loans to pay helped as well, they both did apprenticeships which paid for their degrees. Yet they were able to put aside in a ISA account £400 month. Spending pattern also help when getting a mortgage, things like using overdrafts often or having pay day loans do put a lender off. Yet you do need some credit history and that is where that one credit card is used to build up a good credit history.

People who don’t plan for their future seem to move from “crisis” to “crisis.”

As for living in London, I have done between 1989 and 90 where I was moored at High-Line at Northolt on the Grand Union Paddington Arm before moving out to Langley on the Slough Arm when a mooring became available there. They was a fair number of boats moving up and down the Paddington Arm back then, mostly at the weekend. Before that on a mooring near Manchester between 86 and 88 while at UMIST. No council tax back then just the CC. Moving the boat from Manchester down to London in the Christmas Break to some planning and effort. . It also worked out cheaper as well to stay on the boat in the week. And were able to save the deposit quicker. Being able to buy the house in 94. We could have moved up to Cambridgeshire when I was offer the Job in Cambridge. Yet the system work it just added an extra hour on the Friday and Monday for travel back and from Dorset. But then you will note that I always had a paid mooring and not just left the boat on the towpath.

As for the twit who thinks it Ok to make threats against person and property, How would you like a visit from one of my friends to slap the darby's on you and take you up the steps in front of the Beak, as he saw what you wrote. The last one who tried was caught 'flagrante delicto' on a Friday while committing damage namely spray painting offensive language on the side of my boat causing £3000 worth of damage. She woke my neighbour who tried to catch her when she kick him between legs, she fled the area over the weekend. She is still wanted by the Police to face charges. This was because a member of the Waterman's Club had stuck a notice on her boat for leaving it chained to the in the middle of the moorings in West Park where she had left the boat throughout July and August. She believed it it was me who had done, As we had words about her conduct in front of my grand daughters. One outcome was that the marina is now covered in flood lighting and CCTV, before it was only the front gate and workshops.

As for the woman who was vulgar in their post , This is the sign of a low “IQ“, a result of a lack of education. Which is why you have a low skill-set and are poorly paid.

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19 hours ago, Athy said:

I've read Mr. Sprite's last few posts with interest. One point I would pick him up on: do you really think that people living in inner London are unaccustomed to the constant sound of diesel and petrol engines? It's just that they more often emanate from the road at the front and not the canal behind - but it's the same noise. So to brand the city's boaters as the sole source of "noise pollution" is grossly unfair.

You lived on a main road in London, on the back streets unless it is being used as a rat run, you find that it is as quite as the road going passed your current house. The high pitch whine from a small two stoke generator running at 3000RPM stands out above the rest. The other day when I came back early from work, Alan was striming the bank in Basin C next to the By-pass, all you could hear was the sound of that little two stoke engine whining away. It compleatly drowned out the any sound of vehicles on the road even in the rush hour.   

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4 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

Boo who, The Bargee Travellers don't like the cold hard facts of life, There is no such as a free lunch or a handout, someone always has to pay. There is no magic money tree, even if the NBTA think there is. C&RT is short of cash and things will get much worse in 2022 when the grant money ends.

Yet all we ever hear from the Bargee Travellers is We want!, We want! We want!. Yet they don't want to pay nothing towards the extra cost.

Only a few weeks ago they were demanding that their members with kids in school should be allowed to be moored in the same place (Free) without being forced to move every two weeks in term time. The local market rate for a mooring is over £15000 a year (Battlebridge Basin) If all the Bargee Travellers on the Regents Canal paid, C&RT would have an extra 7.2 million in funds each year. . It been claimed that they move around, yet most don't. I seen the same group of boats from friend's window that have been moored in the same place for months.

As for the claim that the NBTA are 'Guardians of Tow-path', who are they fooling other then themselves. That is like the Travellers on the road claiming to be 'Guardians of Pavement, Car Park, School Field or Park' when told to move-on by the Police and the Courts .

As for the claim that it is imposable for the 20-30 years get a foot on the ladder. This wrong again, the real reason is simple. They can not manage money to save the deposit for a mortgage, it is all to often to much month at the end of the money.

It is all down to spending on the latest must have. Be it the latest iPhone, Ipad, 60” screen TV, the full Sky package, fashion and a lot of other pricey things. The current iphone XS even with the trade in price is over £750, who the sort of fool who pays this sort of price for a phone and this every time a new model comes out, which is about every 18 months. Yet I have never paid more then £40 for a phone and then I only replace if damaged or the battery is worn-out. The same with computers, Yet I only upgrade when required, I'm still using the same ATX case I brought in 92, just replacing bits when needed. The LCD screen is 20 years still does the Job, which is a good thing as finding a replacement 17” might prove to be a bit hard.

Like most people of my age on this forum, we were taught the value of money and the need for money management at school or by our parents, the importance of saving for things rather then use credit. It's hardly news that people spend more freely with credit cards than when they're using cash. We all seen the 20 something with the wallet full of cards,

Using a credit card instead of cash is called "payment decoupling", a fancy term for the fact that credit cards mean you get to enjoy your new iPhone, weeks or months before actual paying for it, add a fascinating wrinkle: spending actual cash feels uniquely painful even when decoupling's not an issue. When experimental subjects were given free cash and invited to spend some of it, they do so more conservatively than when given credit vouchers – even when they're told they'll get their change in cash either way. A single credit card does have it's uses. Either as a backup or for a purchase of £100 for section 75 protection and then only if you can pay the full amount that month. f you normally put all of your purchases on your credit card, and then you don’t pay off your credit cards in full every month, because of added interest charges you are probably paying at least 50% more for everything you buy. If you are relying on your credit cards to afford your lifestyle, your living beyond your means and you know where that will end.

It is completely possible for a 20-30 year old to not only save a 20% deposit and get a mortgage. And I don't mean the North East either, My own daughter (28) and son-in law brought their first two bedroom house two years ago in Dorset, only a few miles from my own place in the Purbeck's. Dorset is not a cheap place to buy a house, and we have the most expensive street in the South West to buy a house. Yet to save the 20% deposit took only eight years and they did not live like hermits, Not that it possible to do that with two girls, simple by careful money management and using a budget and sticking to it. Not having student loans to pay helped as well, they both did apprenticeships which paid for their degrees. Yet they were able to put aside in a ISA account £400 month. Spending pattern also help when getting a mortgage, things like using overdrafts often or having pay day loans do put a lender off. Yet you do need some credit history and that is where that one credit card is used to build up a good credit history.

People who don’t plan for their future seem to move from “crisis” to “crisis.”

As for living in London, I have done between 1989 and 90 where I was moored at High-Line at Northolt on the Grand Union Paddington Arm before moving out to Langley on the Slough Arm when a mooring became available there. They was a fair number of boats moving up and down the Paddington Arm back then, mostly at the weekend. Before that on a mooring near Manchester between 86 and 88 while at UMIST. No council tax back then just the CC. Moving the boat from Manchester down to London in the Christmas Break to some planning and effort. . It also worked out cheaper as well to stay on the boat in the week. And were able to save the deposit quicker. Being able to buy the house in 94. We could have moved up to Cambridgeshire when I was offer the Job in Cambridge. Yet the system work it just added an extra hour on the Friday and Monday for travel back and from Dorset. But then you will note that I always had a paid mooring and not just left the boat on the towpath.

As for the twit who thinks it Ok to make threats against person and property, How would you like a visit from one of my friends to slap the darby's on you and take you up the steps in front of the Beak, as he saw what you wrote. The last one who tried was caught 'flagrante delicto' on a Friday while committing damage namely spray painting offensive language on the side of my boat causing £3000 worth of damage. She woke my neighbour who tried to catch her when she kick him between legs, she fled the area over the weekend. She is still wanted by the Police to face charges. This was because a member of the Waterman's Club had stuck a notice on her boat for leaving it chained to the in the middle of the moorings in West Park where she had left the boat throughout July and August. She believed it it was me who had done, As we had words about her conduct in front of my grand daughters. One outcome was that the marina is now covered in flood lighting and CCTV, before it was only the front gate and workshops.

As for the woman who was vulgar in their post , This is the sign of a low “IQ“, a result of a lack of education. Which is why you have a low skill-set and are poorly paid.

Well there we have it, this has nothing to do with boating, it has everything to do with your politics.  

Why are you talking about mobile phones and student debt? I don't think this needs much response, you have set your nonsensical justification for your opinion in a perfect light for all to see and undone yourself. You need no help from anyone else to show how bigoted your opinions are. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

Fact of life.  When I was brought up they would have been described as spoilt brats.  If you want to moor your boat in London then pay for a mooring.

 

Yup - the 'Baton Twirlers' are out in full force - Me, Me. Me !

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1 hour ago, Corkkeys said:

Well there we have it, this has nothing to do with boating, it has everything to do with your politics.  

Why are you talking about mobile phones and student debt? I don't think this needs much response, you have set your nonsensical justification for your opinion in a perfect light for all to see and undone yourself. You need no help from anyone else to show how bigoted your opinions are. 

 

Perhaps you need to remove the plank off your shoulder!

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11 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Perhaps you need to remove the plank off your shoulder!

But you must agree she is a perfectly balanced individual - A chip on each shoulder !!

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18 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

But this breaks down in London where we would really struggle to arrive of a late afternoon and find somewhere to moor. This being because a small proportion of boat owners have decided to effectively annex a large area in and around London for their exclusive use. They do not spread themselves around a large area of the system as we do. They never leave and thus visitors are excluded, something which doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country.

 

Excellent and accurate analysis Nick. This is the nub of the problem with london boaters. Nothing to do with politics. 

 

 

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I have sympathy with the views expressed by Nick, but am concerned that effectively it means we're putting our retirement hobby above peoples life.

Rog

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28 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

What your mostly reasonable post fails to address is the real reason why people like me resent people like you, even though I’m  sure you are a nice person etc.

 

We are leisure boaters, although we live on the boat for several months a year. We like to use the system as a means of transport, which after all is what it was designed for. (It was not designed as provision of accommodation). We like travel around to new and interesting places. When arriving at these places we obviously need to moor for the night and we can always do this because boats on the system tend not to be too concentrated in any one area. The key point being that the available space is shared equitably by anyone wanting to use it. It is after all public space.

 

But this breaks down in London where we would really struggle to arrive of a late afternoon and find somewhere to moor. This being because a small proportion of boat owners have decided to effectively annex a large area in and around London for their exclusive use. They do not spread themselves around a large area of the system as we do. They never leave and thus visitors are excluded, something which doesn’t happen anywhere else in the country.

 

So I resent the fact that people such as yourself have taken possession of a public space and thereby exclude other people from having a fair share of using it. Not helped by a feeling that in the main, people are only doing this in order to have cheap accommodation near the city, as opposed to any love for boating. Boating being, by my definition, cruising in a boat, not just living statically in a floating house.

Well said, it may be hard for some - especially newcomers, to appreciate the lost amenities bought about by this behaviour. So many Thames moorings that were previously relaxed and available have either been closed, seriously restricted or charged for. Above Teddington lock is just one example of this.

 

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15 minutes ago, dogless said:

I have sympathy with the views expressed by Nick, but am concerned that effectively it means we're putting our retirement hobby above peoples life.

Rog

No, I am putting everyone’s requirements equally. We should all have equal access to the space. Just as we do in city parks. The corollary to your point is that we should allow people to put caravans in london’s parks because, it seems according to you, having somewhere to live cheaply in London is more important than amenity /leisure activity. Since society wouldn’t tolerate that, I’m not clear why it is tolerated on london’s canals.

 

And anyway, a lot of boaters wishing to visit central London are not retired. I certainly wasn’t the last time I visited London by boat (which was about 15 years ago).

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