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Narrowboat depreciation due to diesel's future


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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

What value do you put on ten years of life enjoying the boat whilst still alive?

Priceless.

The boat is,for me,a complete antidote to the other no boating world.

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47 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I agree. I tried to get my parents to release money from their property and spend it but they refused, leaving the house to myself and my two sisters. Non of us need or want it and mum who now is on her own still wants us to have it. We will sell it and spend the money, well I certainly will, I have always found enjoying the money better than stockpiling it in a bank. Its sad as they could have enjoyed it though mum gets pleasure from leaving it to us ?

I would suggest, rather than equity release, selling and renting should be considered and did suggest this to my mother in law. But she declined and passed away last year. Disposing of her house contents was stressful for my wife. If she had downsized the process would have been easier for those who remain alive as she would have needed to dispose of some thing while still alive.

Equity release is at best selling your house for half its value. You would need to spend at least half the house value on rent before being worse off.

 

 

Edited by MartynG
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4 hours ago, ivan&alice said:

There is one major issue facing the human population and it's not NOX, it's carbon emissions causing climate change. The problem with environmentalists is that they package up all the myriad ways in which we are hurting The Environment into one broad problem, which is then turned political to get socialist policies on the docket, because climate change is a big (and real) issue that the market evidently isn't very interested in sorting out.

 

 

I cannot agree that environmentalists turn the environment into socialist politics, its not that simple although the powers of the right, certainly Trump and others would love that myth to become a generally accepted 'fact' - it does their job for them. Certainly a lot of Extinction Rebellion people are young so tend to be leftish but the Ext. Rebellion bunch that I am involved with are nearly all female, mostly my age (sadly not young) and terrifying - the militant wing of the W.I. in fact - I am too cowardly to own up to leftish leanings as I reckon I would be in trouble. Anyway, socialism or capitalism, they both depend on the chimera never ending growth so neither is compatible with realistic environmental progress. There is a Greenpeace event in parliament tomorrow, the launch of a study into plastics in UK rivers, I am going, so is my wife, I very much doubt if anybody is interested in how we vote and I think most people appreciate that neither left or right are doing anything like enough.

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

Yours is a good example as you have owned your boat 10 years or so. I could have a fair guess whet  paid for it  as I bought the same make/model earlier the same year , as you know.

I dare say your boat  might sell now for something like the sum you paid for it ten years ago. Maybe not quite that much , perhaps a bit less as it is considerably older now.

The trouble is inflation, although modest, will have depleted the value of that money by at least 30% .   So you if you sell now for the sum you paid you will have lost 30% in depreciation.

Not to mention another 10% if you use a broker to sell it.

Good guess. We have had it 11 years and it is worth pretty much what we paid for it back then.

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Just now, mrsmelly said:

Life without a boat is no life at all :D

I think all on this forum would agree with that.

1 minute ago, Naughty Cal said:

Good guess. We have had it 11 years and it is worth pretty much what we paid for it back then.

Except it isn't because the money has a lower value.

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1 minute ago, Bee said:

I cannot agree that environmentalists turn the environment into socialist politics, its not that simple although the powers of the right, certainly Trump and others would love that myth to become a generally accepted 'fact' - it does their job for them. Certainly a lot of Extinction Rebellion people are young so tend to be leftish but the Ext. Rebellion bunch that I am involved with are nearly all female, mostly my age (sadly not young) and terrifying - the militant wing of the W.I. in fact - I am too cowardly to own up to leftish leanings as I reckon I would be in trouble. Anyway, socialism or capitalism, they both depend on the chimera never ending growth so neither is compatible with realistic environmental progress. There is a Greenpeace event in parliament tomorrow, the launch of a study into plastics in UK rivers, I am going, so is my wife, I very much doubt if anybody is interested in how we vote and I think most people appreciate that neither left or right are doing anything like enough.

Until the big supermarkets actualy do something we little minions are wasting our time. Waitrose are at present pretending to address the issue. There are only two of us ont boat but we still take a carrier bag of recycling every other day to the recycling point, full of plastic from packaging, especialy fruit. Also good luck to you but until your peers stop flying cheaply around the World on never ending holiday after holiday burning masses of fossil fuel, set to double in the next twenty years then you are wasting your time. Not even drops in the ocean is what we can do, even en masse.

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7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I think all on this forum would agree with that.

Except it isn't because the money has a lower value.

A pound is a pound.

 

I will happily take what we paid for it when the time comes to sell it.

 

We have had 11 years of happy boating with her so far and that is worth a damn sight more than an extra 30% or so on the value of cash.

5 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Until the big supermarkets actualy do something we little minions are wasting our time. Waitrose are at present pretending to address the issue. There are only two of us ont boat but we still take a carrier bag of recycling every other day to the recycling point, full of plastic from packaging, especialy fruit. Also good luck to you but until your peers stop flying cheaply around the World on never ending holiday after holiday burning masses of fossil fuel, set to double in the next twenty years then you are wasting your time. Not even drops in the ocean is what we can do, even en masse.

All very true.

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So what's this talk about the future of diesel?

Will diesel become cheaper or more expensive  as petrol and then electric cars become the dominant form of personal road transport?

 

 

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39 minutes ago, MartynG said:

So what's this talk about the future of diesel?

Will diesel become cheaper or more expensive  as petrol and then electric cars become the dominant form of personal road transport?

 

 

Dont worry petrol is next to be demonized now that it is more polluting than modern diesels.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Dyertribe said:

Equity release is a very different beast these days. Not for everyone I will agree but for the asset rich, cash poor it can mean the difference between a comfortable retirement and one of worry and struggle. The drawdown type, where you only take what you want when you want it up to an agreed level rather than taking a lump sum to sit in your bank earning the square root of diddly squat is very attractive to lots of people. 

Your very probably quite correct. It's still the scam of the century and should be investigated. Oh and it was only three years ago that I took equity release. It was a scam then and it still is.

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2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

This throwaway comment detracts from some of the basic truths in the rest of your post.

 

While big business/capitalists/right-wingers/established money can continue to make more money short-term by backing...

 

Oil and gas exploration, coal mining, large power stations, destruction of rain forests to grow cash crops such as beef and palm oil etc

 

instead of:

 

Social action, community involvement through local CHP schemes, small-scale ground source heat pumps. small-scale renewable energy, sensible grants for remedial insulation. legislation to require new buildings to be environmentally efficient,

 

...they will continue to do so.

 

Climate change is a political issue. Wasn't it that nice Mr Cameron who said something about "green crap"?  What is Farridge's policy?

It wasn't a throwaway comment. It's my viewpoint, it's an unpopular one, but one that I feel a duty to express whenever appropriate ever since I learned how economics actually works. Though a boating forum is probably not where I should have done it, in retrospect!

 

big business/capitalists/right-wingers/established money will continue to do whatever makes them more money, which by and large is selling things to people who want to buy them. If you care about this "green crap", then take action yourself. Don't buy bananas wrapped in cellophane. Don't fly around on Ryanair. Go vegan. And of course sell your boat and go live on land where you can install the small scale renewable energy that you want big business to support.

 

I guarantee you the only reason big oil makes money off oil is because of people like us buying it. The reason solar panels are coming down in price is because of increased market demand and technological improvements to the supply by... big business. It is that simple.

 

Of course climate change is a political issue, but polarising it as right vs left is problematic since it backs idiots like Trump and Cameron into a corner where they have to deny its very existence instead of creating sensible legislation to tackle it. And it sends the left into an ever downward spiraling abuse of civil liberties by lumping in unrelated things like market fiddling and social benefits.

 

FWIW I am pretty pro "green crap". I just see climate change as a genuine, real issue, and the real problem that the left and right need to agree needs to have a solution.

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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Until the big supermarkets actualy do something we little minions are wasting our time. Waitrose are at present pretending to address the issue. There are only two of us ont boat but we still take a carrier bag of recycling every other day to the recycling point, full of plastic from packaging, especialy fruit. Also good luck to you but until your peers stop flying cheaply around the World on never ending holiday after holiday burning masses of fossil fuel, set to double in the next twenty years then you are wasting your time. Not even drops in the ocean is what we can do, even en masse.

You can of course remove all the excess outer packaging just outside the supermarket and put it into their bins, or if you are bold and quick you can remove the excess packaging at the checkout just before putting the items into your bag, and ask the checkout assistant to dispose of it for you. This gets various interesting responses.

 

..............Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

You can of course remove all the excess outer packaging just outside the supermarket and put it into their bins, or if you are bold and quick you can remove the excess packaging at the checkout just before putting the items into your bag, and ask the checkout assistant to dispose of it for you. This gets various interesting responses.

 

..............Dave

Have you tried this with your beer bottles then?

 

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33 minutes ago, ivan&alice said:

and the real problem that the left and right need to agree needs to have a solution.

 

They need to, but they won't. We can hope and wish and cajole and complain but the proles in their masses are NOT going to stop demanding to fly to Spain or Florida for their holidays or stop buying dresses in four sizes at a time on Amazon and sending three back (or four!) that don't fit or they don't like (apparently all unpacked returns go to landfill!!!!), or buying rechargeable drills from China because they are cheap, or insisting on eating beef because 'that's what we do, we are English innit". 

 

There is NO global consensus or will to fix climate change so we are going to end up with it. Get used to it and develop strategies to cope with it when it happens, as there is nothing that you acting alone, or a bunch of a few million enlightened individuals (or even the whole UK) can do to stop it. Yes there is every point in taking action yourself as it will make you feel better to be doing your bit but in fact in the big scale of things going to make any difference. Mark my words, or something....

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Have you tried this with your beer bottles then?

 

As you know, I have now given up drinking.

But seriously, Gillie did it today at Morrisons, Westons Henry cider now has a silly little cardboard sleeve thingy over the top of each bottle and they are all in Morrisons bin.

 

Pouring the contents into myself and leaving the bottles behind is not really a good idea at supermarkets, that's what pubs are for :)

 

..............Dave

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

As you know, I have now given up drinking.

But seriously, Gillie did it today at Morrisons, Westons Henry cider now has a silly little cardboard sleeve thingy over the top of each bottle and they are all in Morrisons bin.

 

Pouring the contents into myself and leaving the bottles behind is not really a good idea at supermarkets, that's what pubs are for :)

 

..............Dave

 

Interestingly in Asda today, I bought another new bedsheet the same I bought a few weeks ago. The one a few weeks ago came in a sturdy clear polythene packaging I had to cut off with strong scissors. The one today had NO plastic packaging, only a cardboard band around the middle with the fabric of the sheet exposed to shop dust, transit dirt, people's grubby hands fingering it at all that. I didn't like this much but I still bought it, thinking ok I've done my bit to save the planet today....

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Interestingly in Asda today, I bought another new bedsheet the same I bought a few weeks ago. The one a few weeks ago came in a sturdy clear polythene packaging I had to cut off with strong scissors. The one today had NO plastic packaging, only a cardboard band around the middle with the fabric of the sheet exposed to shop dust, transit dirt, people's grubby hands fingering it at all that. I didn't like this much but I still bought it, thinking ok I've done my bit to save the planet today....

 

 

I reckon that's a big factor, the whole packaging business has developed to make shopping clean and attractive and its going to be hard to accept things not looking so nice and well presented. If you buy something like an iPhone the packaging is almost as complicated as the phone itself, can't imaging Apple selling stuff in paper bags.

 

..............Dave

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

OMG ? .....

 

I misread that initially as 'given up thinking'....!

 

 

The paths of Vox Stellarum and Goliath crossed last night and the inevitable occurred. This morning all of us were undecided whether to give it up for ever or just do the hair of the dog thing.

 

To get back on topic, the beer costs far far outweigh any boat depreciation :).

 

..............Dave

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17 minutes ago, dmr said:

As you know, I have now given up drinking.

But seriously, Gillie did it today at Morrisons, Westons Henry cider now has a silly little cardboard sleeve thingy over the top of each bottle and they are all in Morrisons bin.

 

Pouring the contents into myself and leaving the bottles behind is not really a good idea at supermarkets, that's what pubs are for :)

 

..............Dave

Glass bottles are good. 

A colleague is German. He says they re-use beer bottles in Germany. You just trade in the crate of empty bottles when you buy a fresh crate.

What a good idea.

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

I reckon that's a big factor, the whole packaging business has developed to make shopping clean and attractive and its going to be hard to accept things not looking so nice and well presented.

This, so much this.

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

If you buy something like an iPhone the packaging is almost as complicated as the phone itself, can't imaging Apple selling stuff in paper bags.

Every time I buy an Apple product I end up with all these plastic Apple stickers - just why. 

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1 minute ago, MartynG said:

Glass bottles are good. 

A colleague is German. He says they re-use beer bottles in Germany. You just trade in the crate of empty bottles when you buy a fresh crate.

What a good idea.

When I was 15 I had a saturday job as a drivers mate doing door to door deliveries of soft drinks in Brum and there was a deposit on every bottle, we collected the old bottles and took the money off the bill for the new ones.

Corona delivered "pop" door to door, Davenports delivered the beer.

 

...............Dave

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1 minute ago, dmr said:

When I was 15 I had a saturday job as a drivers mate doing door to door deliveries of soft drinks in Brum and there was a deposit on every bottle, we collected the old bottles and took the money off the bill for the new ones.

Corona delivered "pop" door to door, Davenports delivered the beer.

 

...............Dave

 

As 14 year olds, we noticed the back yard of the off licence was full of crates of 'deposit' bottles so we grabbed one and took it back in through the front door of the shop and to our amazement got 'our' money back on the empties! 

 

20 mins later, rinse and repeat. More money. Amazing!  Third time around though, we were challenged so we ran for it. This was the only time I've ever been actually physically chased up a high street by an angry shopkeeper.....

 

 

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